Every Knee and Tongue

Motar

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In the context of ancient Israel and idolatry, the following prediction is made:

"By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." (Isaiah 45:23 NIV)

To whom does "every knee; every tongue" apply?
 

Ludlow

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In the context of ancient Israel and idolatry, the following prediction is made:

"By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." (Isaiah 45:23 NIV)

To whom does "every knee; every tongue" apply?
No idea.
 

Blackleaf

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To whom does "every knee; every tongue" apply?

It means those who follow Christ and His teachings: i.e. Christians.

There is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Saviour; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear."
 

Motar

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Isaiah is OT.

In the context of the early church and condemnation, Paul cites this same text from Isaiah:

"It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God." (Romans 14:11 NIV)

Considering both references, to whom does this statement apply? What is the implication?
 

Cliffy

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darkbeaver

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In the context of the early church and condemnation, Paul cites this same text from Isaiah:

"It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God." (Romans 14:11 NIV)

Considering both references, to whom does this statement apply? What is the implication?

It means that you will finally be true to yourself.


the true intent of the framers of the allegory. This life is, as we now see, the realm of the "dead." In it, not after it, is the trial of the soul’s qualities, as every common sense conception of the value of earthly life testifies. We are summoned into this Amenta of the body life after life, and in each we are being put to the trial of our character in a varied series of experiences. This is an incontrovertible fact of common knowledge. This world is the high mount into which the dark power, Satan, led the Jesus spirit for its trial and temptation. Given a moment’s sane reflection, any soul will know that this life is
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the period of its trial and testing. The soul is drawn here to exercise her undeveloped powers, as Plotinus has so well told us. Without such a testing she would remain forever ignorant of her own latent capacity, or would never bring it to expression. Here is where she is thrown into the scales of the balance, in Libra on the horizon, and here is where she is being weighed. How does she measure up under the test of earth? In no other realm of her evolutionary experience is she so situated that her acts become decisive for good or ill. The human life is the only stage on which every act is an act of destiny. Standing on the equally balanced bars of the scales, or arms of the cross, with spirit on one side, matter on the other, her every motivation, word or deed inclines the arms up or down, and thus she frames her destiny. Man is the only creature whose inner spirit writes the record of its character on its inner bodies in turn. For every fleshly experience sends an impression inward and makes a record on soul, which holds it. A man of immortal spirit-essence, eternally. http://pc93.tripod.com/lostlght.htm
 

petros

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In the context of the early church and condemnation, Paul cites this same text from Isaiah:

"It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God." (Romans 14:11 NIV)

Considering both references, to whom does this statement apply? What is the implication?

Paul means nothing to me either.
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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In the context of ancient Israel and idolatry, the following prediction is made:

"By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." (Isaiah 45:23 NIV)

To whom does "every knee; every tongue" apply?

The "every knee" and "every tongue" incorporates all of humanity.
 

Motar

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Are you expecting all of humanity to bow down to your version of god, or your interpretation of "the word"? Good luck with that.

According to the Hebrew prophet Isaiah and the Complete Jewish Bible, it is Adonai who declares:

"Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God; there is no other. In the name of myself I have sworn, from my mouth has rightly gone out, a word that will not return — that to me every knee will bow and every tongue will swear about me that only in Adonai are justice and strength." (Isaiah 45:22-23 CJB)

"All the ends of the earth", "every knee", and "every tongue" implies all of humanity, Cliffy.
 

Cliffy

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According to the Hebrew prophet Isaiah and the Complete Jewish Bible, it is Adonai who declares:

"Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God; there is no other. In the name of myself I have sworn, from my mouth has rightly gone out, a word that will not return — that to me every knee will bow and every tongue will swear about me that only in Adonai are justice and strength." (Isaiah 45:22-23 CJB)

"All the ends of the earth", "every knee", and "every tongue" implies all of humanity, Cliffy.
Yes, well, I never heard of Adonai nor do I believe the bible is anything more than the words of power hungry men, so the whole thing about knees and tongues is rather lost on me.
To me, the Universe is the creative force. It created itself. Why the Universe would care about the human drama queens is beyond me. But everything in the Universe is connected and we do have the capacity to tap into that frequency, to understand (as far as we are capable) our connection to all. I find the separation dichotomy of modern religion, to be the source of all our angst and violence. We are not separate, god is not separate, everything is interconnected, interdependent. What harm we do to others (human, animal, plant), we do to ourselves. We have turned paradise into a garbage heap trying to fill the emptiness inside caused by this separation schism.
 

Motar

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Yes, well, I never heard of Adonai nor do I believe the bible is anything more than the words of power hungry men, so the whole thing about knees and tongues is rather lost on me.
To me, the Universe is the creative force. It created itself. Why the Universe would care about the human drama queens is beyond me. But everything in the Universe is connected and we do have the capacity to tap into that frequency, to understand (as far as we are capable) our connection to all. I find the separation dichotomy of modern religion, to be the source of all our angst and violence. We are not separate, god is not separate, everything is interconnected, interdependent. What harm we do to others (human, animal, plant), we do to ourselves. We have turned paradise into a garbage heap trying to fill the emptiness inside caused by this separation schism.

Adonai
Old Testament word for "God," late 14c., from Medieval Latin, from Hebrew, literally "my lord," from adon (see Adonis) + suffix of 1st person. Online Etymology Dictionary

I don't think Isaiah 45:23 is a threat of coercion, Cliffy. Rather, it is a prophecy. It predicts that all of humanity will individually ("every knee"; "every tongue") and eventually (future tense) come to recognize/acknowledge the sovereignty of God.

It is a message of encouragement for the believer. It is a call to patient and perseverant faith in an era/environment of rampant unbelief.
 

darkbeaver

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Adonai
Old Testament word for "God," late 14c., from Medieval Latin, from Hebrew, literally "my lord," from adon (see Adonis) + suffix of 1st person. Online Etymology Dictionary

I don't think Isaiah 45:23 is a threat of coercion, Cliffy. Rather, it is a prophecy. It predicts that all of humanity will individually ("every knee"; "every tongue") and eventually (future tense) come to recognize/acknowledge the sovereignty of God.

It is a message of encouragement for the believer. It is a call to patient and perseverant faith in an era/environment of rampant unbelief.

The sovereignty of God rests within and belief is not enough, only action is the ticket. I may be taxing the meaning of belief but in the modern usage it is taxed anyway.
 

Cliffy

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Adonai
Old Testament word for "God," late 14c., from Medieval Latin, from Hebrew, literally "my lord," from adon (see Adonis) + suffix of 1st person. Online Etymology Dictionary

I don't think Isaiah 45:23 is a threat of coercion, Cliffy. Rather, it is a prophecy. It predicts that all of humanity will individually ("every knee"; "every tongue") and eventually (future tense) come to recognize/acknowledge the sovereignty of God.

It is a message of encouragement for the believer. It is a call to patient and perseverant faith in an era/environment of rampant unbelief.
Whose god? Which true god is everybody going to kneel to? Is the bible the only true account? I have no problem with people believing in a supreme being. I do. I have a problem with people who think they know better than everybody else what this supreme being wants and expects of us and that we should bow down to their interpretation of "the word" in their book.
 

darkbeaver

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382​
moved the meaning of every representation as far from the life of the individual as it was possible to take it. The Battle of Armageddon is the Battle of Incarnation. We are deciding its issue by every act of present living. A likely derivation of the world traces it from the Egyptian title of Horus as Lord of the Two Horizons, Har-Makhu; to which the Hebrews or Greeks added the Hebrew word for "Lord," Adon; making it Har-Makhu-Adon, or "Lord God of the Two Horizons." And the Ritual gives a significant detail in connection with the battle between Horus (Har-Makhu) and the hosts of Sut. It is fought at midnight (incarnation) and on the horizon! This assuredly clinches its purely symbolical character.

We have considered the significance of the term Makhu in the name of Horus or Har-Makhu. Another correlative name of Horus is Har-Tema, which signifies "he who makes justice visible." Har-Tema was lord of the double earth, wherein justice was wrought out in the form of real existence in the life on earth. The Ritual says (Ch. 79): "I am earth, who maketh to come into being the seed which is sown." He is the power which brings the hidden things of God to light in matter.
Hints have already conveyed the general relevance of the great old scriptural term, the Battle of Armageddon, and we have traced its origin from the Egyptian Har-Makhu, with the addition of the Hebrew word adon, meaning "lord," at the end. The name signifies "the sun (spirit) power, lord of the balance between spirit and matter, standing on the horizon." The term has overcast the consciousness of deluded Christians with fearsome speculation and solicitude for so many centuries that its sane clarification at last in the glow of Egyptian symbolism is quite worth an additional paragraph.http://pc93.tripod.com/lostlght.htm
 

Motar

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I have no problem with people believing in a supreme being. I do.

Your declaration of tolerance towards the supreme beings of others is contradicted by your signature line, Cliffy:

"Trying to get spiritual nourishment from a 2000 year old book..."

It seems that you embrace one exception.
 

darkbeaver

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Have you ever wondered about your Judeo Christian heritage? I have. The Christian Bible is a comic book written by Hebrew trouble makers for the express purpose of conquest by division, the prferred method of infiltrators and wreackers. There was never a Pope who was not first and always a Sionist.
 

Cliffy

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It seems that you embrace one exception.
No, I have the same problem with all so called holy books. Once written down, they become fixed in time. The life blood is sucked out of the words. The path is open to everyone, not some based on belief. There are universal truths found in all religious and spiritual paths. None are the One and Only. It is a personal journey (the narrow path).