I always thought that the Calvinists drew Christianity to its logical conclusion: unconditional election.
The basic idea being, God who is omnipotent and omniscient created you. Now God knew before hand that He would create you, and knew before hand whether you would be sent to heaven or not. Therefore, salvation is God's and only God's choice: it has absolutely nothing to do with an individual's faith or merit.
To me, this was always the logical conclusion of an omnipotent and omniscient creator who also created a heaven and a hell.
My gawd, I`m seeing double. Definitely gawd`s intention.
There indeed is logic to it.
If gawd knew my future from the beginning, then there is no free will.
If gawd didn`t, she is not all knowing.
If she is not all knowing, she is not gawd.
If there is free will, God can only know what has happened, not what will be in the future.
How can you arrive at that?
If there is free will, I am free to determine what happens next.
Since what happens next has not happened, and is under my control, God cannot know what will happen.
If God knows what will happen next, then it cannot be up to me to make a decision, therefore there could be no free will.
If there is free will, I am free to determine what happens next.
Since what happens next has not happened, and is under my control, God cannot know what will happen.
If God knows what will happen next, then it cannot be up to me to make a decision, therefore there could be no free will.
If there is free will, I am free to determine what happens next.
Since what happens next has not happened, and is under my control, God cannot know what will happen.
If God knows what will happen next, then it cannot be up to me to make a decision, therefore there could be no free will.
The apologetic reply to the problem of God's omniscience and free will is to point out that it is still free will if it what you wanted to do anyways.
Gods will by definition is not appreciable or approachable by mans logic or a monkeys. The rule is ,"god moves in mysterious ways". That I think means understanding is exclusive of logic, as marriage is exclusive of screwdrivers. Only god knows if that makes sense.
Why would god create a creature whose every thought and action it already knew? What would be the point? Why create heaven and hell when you already know who will end up where? This is such a silly notion that only a human could have thought it up. There is no logic in belief. As Freud said, you either know something because it is logical or you don't. Belief is illogical because it is based on something you can have no way of proving by any means. Giving god human traits only proves Mark Twain's assumption that men created god in their own image.
A monkey wouldn't know??
If God knows what is going to happen, then the future must be pre-ordained (even if God is psychic).
Therefore, free will is an illusion.
I suppose one could argue that God created humanity for the same reason we create works of art. After all, I know exactly what my creations are going to do (ok not always, because some of my "creations" contain bugs), and they certainly don't think. Yet, we still have the need to create these static things. A related question might be why, if we knew that we would throw the painting in the garbage (hell) why would we bother painting it?
Leaving God out of the equation, if somebody did find a way to view the future, this would disprove freewill?
And if there is free will, there is absolutely nobody who can claim any psychic abilities?
Interesting concept. Not sure I have an anwer.
If one can view the future, then an argument could be made that there is no free will, since the future is known, and the ability to make decisions that change the future is eliminated.
I always thought that the Calvinists drew Christianity to its logical conclusion: unconditional election.
The basic idea being, God who is omnipotent and omniscient created you. Now God knew before hand that He would create you, and knew before hand whether you would be sent to heaven or not. Therefore, salvation is God's and only God's choice: it has absolutely nothing to do with an individual's faith or merit.
To me, this was always the logical conclusion of an omnipotent and omniscient creator who also created a heaven and a hell.
If there is free will, I am free to determine what happens next.
Since what happens next has not happened, and is under my control, God cannot know what will happen.
If God knows what will happen next, then it cannot be up to me to make a decision, therefore there could be no free will.