Health Cae in Crisis.

oldrebel

Nominee Member
Apr 18, 2011
70
0
6
southern ontario
All the experts and most Canadian seem to realize that our health care is unsustainable in it's present form. Costs are rising faster than than the economy is growing. We don't like to admit it, but it's the truth.
With Provinces responsible for administering health care, and the Feds responsible for funding, there's always a way to pass the buck for the inefficiencies. But passing the buck doesn't solve the problems.
Just now all they do is throw more money at it. Where is the money going to come from?
What are the options that non of the politicians are facing?
- Cut services
- Raise taxes
- Allow two-tier care
- Apply user fees
- Cut other social programs to fund health care
Eventually we'll have to make those choices if we want social health care to continue. What do you think should be done?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
Raise corporate taxes.

Increase transparency to ensure the 'buck' isn't being passed on.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Raise corporate taxes.

.

Aren't you folks paying enough already? Where do you think these corporations are going to regain what is lost in corporate taxes. The consumer.

All the experts and most Canadian seem to realize that our health care is unsustainable in it's present form.

Keep saying it is the best in the world... keep showing Top 20 lists... and you'll be alright.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
How about getting rid of the infinite layers of managers who generate reports in every provincial health department and hospital?

What percentage of people involved in health care actually have anything to do with delivery of health care services?
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
Having moved from Ontario to Manitoba three years ago, I can safely say that I received better care in Manitoba than in Ontario.

Also, let me add, that I worked and lived in the States from 1997 to 2003 and I could have had a far faster care in the States, but I was reluctant to pay for it out of my own pocket.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
Aren't you folks paying enough already? Where do you think these corporations are going to regain what is lost in corporate taxes. The consumer.

Well they don't give back to the consumer when they have tax cuts. I'm sure if we had a responsible government, they would also ensure businesses gave fair prices and made a fair profit, but they've relinquished all control to the conglomerates.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Aren't you folks paying enough already? Where do you think these corporations are going to regain what is lost in corporate taxes. The consumer.



Keep saying it is the best in the world... keep showing Top 20 lists... and you'll be alright.

There is currently a nine percentage point spread between the average Canadian federal/provincial corporate tax rate (approximately 26 per cent) and the U.S. federal corporate tax rate (35 per cent).

However this issue is a non-issue since nearly all large corporations in the US and Canada avoid paying corporate taxes by playing shell games and shifting profits offshore.
NDP promise: Keeping corporate tax rate below the U.S. - Reality Check - Canada Votes 2011 - CBC News

So we are only talking about taxing SMBs, who actually pay corporate taxes.

Also since Canadians have universal medicare, Canadian corporations don't have foot the employee health care bill, like many US corporations, making it more attractive to operate in Canada rather than in US.

All the experts and most Canadian seem to realize that our health care is unsustainable in it's present form. Costs are rising faster than than the economy is growing. We don't like to admit it, but it's the truth.
With Provinces responsible for administering health care, and the Feds responsible for funding, there's always a way to pass the buck for the inefficiencies. But passing the buck doesn't solve the problems.
Just now all they do is throw more money at it. Where is the money going to come from?
What are the options that non of the politicians are facing?
- Cut services
- Raise taxes
- Allow two-tier care
- Apply user fees
- Cut other social programs to fund health care
Eventually we'll have to make those choices if we want social health care to continue. What do you think should be done?

People with money can buy health services abroad. So this is an issue only for the middle and lower class, who normally don't contribute a lot of money to election campaigns. Also many poor people can be convinced to vote against their interests, just by showing pictures of Harper in a warm fuzzy sweater attending a hockey game with his family. Awww isn't that nice.

What should be done is that mice in mouse land should elect mice, rather than cats:
YouTube - Mouseland
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Well they don't give back to the consumer when they have tax cuts. I'm sure if we had a responsible government, they would also ensure businesses gave fair prices and made a fair profit, but they've relinquished all control to the conglomerates.

You are absolutely right. They do not give back when things are good. Neither the government nor corporations. I remember oil prices were so low... yet prices at the pump were still relatively high compared to the price per barrel.

The bottom line is, corporate tax means a consumer tax. Corporations won't absorb the cost for the greater good, they pass it on down the line to you and me. Slowly but surely.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
The bottom line is, corporate tax means a consumer tax. Corporations won't absorb the cost for the greater good, they pass it on down the line to you and me. Slowly but surely.

This is why we have a government for the people. Keep corporate taxes and prices reasonable. If people complain prices are too high, we, the people, should get to control those prices to the degree that it doesn't infringe on a fair profit for the corporation.

All that's left for us to do is figure out what is a 'fair profit'. That's something the government needs to work on on our behalf.

Mind you, I agree that for play-things, we can vote with our dollars by not buying the damn products. But if there are more essential resources that are grossly over priced, the government needs to step in and ensure that regular people aren't suffering while a handful of wealthy men are unfairly raking it in.

Another solution is that the government can intervene and try and 'create competition' so that the consumer has a cheaper alternative. But that seems more difficult to me than just going in and fixing prices on products that being set way too high.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
This is why we have a government for the people. Keep corporate taxes and prices reasonable. If people complain prices are too high, we, the people, should get to control those prices to the degree that it doesn't infringe on a fair profit for the corporation.

The government believes it is for the people, for better or for worse.

You just said raise corporate taxes. Any tax levied on a corporation will be taken as unreasonable to them, and they'll pass it off.

We the people have no business telling a company what's fair and what is not. We the people would run every company out of business if we had the opportunity to decide what we they should charge.

All that's left for us to do is figure out what is a 'fair profit'. That's something the government needs to work on on our behalf.

I assure you, the company profit would be low and it would not be worth starting a company.

Mind you, I agree that for play-things, we can vote with our dollars by not buying the damn products. But if there are more essential resources that are grossly over priced, the government needs to step in and ensure that regular people aren't suffering while a handful of wealthy men are unfairly raking it in.

These wealthy men AND women put up the capital and took the risks. Why should Joe Blow who's been nothing but a big A--hole all his life decide what Mr. Floss gets paid?

Another solution is that the government can intervene and try and 'create competition' so that the consumer has a cheaper alternative. But that seems more difficult to me than just going in and fixing prices on products that being set way too high.

In the end, the government cares little who pays... as long as they get their cut.

Just like Henry Hill from Goodfellas... "You don't have the money? F U... Pay me."
 

oldrebel

Nominee Member
Apr 18, 2011
70
0
6
southern ontario
How about getting rid of the infinite layers of managers who generate reports in every provincial health department and hospital?

What percentage of people involved in health care actually have anything to do with delivery of health care services?
I think you are bang on!
The health care is run by politicians who haven't the foggiest notion of what is involved, what it takes, and what is necessary. All they care about is the ifinancial side of it. The administrators and bureaucrats need to be eliminated and replaced by medical personnel who understand it.

I would be in favour of modest user fees if the visit to doctor or emergency room is not an emergency, say for minor ailments or injuries. Say $5.00. Most people spentd more than that for their morning coffe at Tim Hortons. Surely they could pay it for medical services.
I would also like to see less preventative care. It is good to promote healthy lifestyles, but routine lab tests, ultrasound and xrays which are presently done on a regular basis as a matter of yearly checkups are costly and unnecessary when there is no complaint from the patient.
I would also like to see some privatization which the wealthy could opt for. As it is the wealthy go out of the country and pay for care so why not allow them the same service within the country? It would also free up the 'free' care for those who cannot afford it.