Military vote turning on the Conservatives?

Machjo

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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My dad and I rarely discuss politics, but yesterday he'd told me how he and other local retired veterans were angry with the Conservative the local incumbent for having voted along with his Conservative Party to reduce military pensions for retired veterans.


Now I already knew veterans were angry at how the Conservative Party had abandoned injured veterans and their families and certainly expected a backlash on that front, but had not realised they after military pensions too. Ouch!

Seeing that Layton has already been praised on TV last week by the veterans' ombudsman for his stance on standing up for veterans and their families, that the local Green candidate in our riding is in fact a retired airforce colonel (i.e. someone local veterans are likely to trust to actually care for our veterans and not just kick them and their families to the curb after they're injured or retired after sending them off to fight abroad), and that our local Conservative MP had voted along with his party to make these cuts, I wonder how the military vote could hurt the Conservatives this time around. Make no mistake about it, most veterans do in fact vote Conservative, so a veterans' exodus from the the local Conservative could certainly hurt him big time, especially with a military contestant in the running.
 
Liberalman

Liberalman

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Mar 18, 2007
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CDNBear

You just have to remember who changed the
rebuilding military mission to a combative one and who's idea was it to extend it
a couple of times. Poor Harper he wants an expanded role which requires
more soldiers which requires more population which requires more
immigration which is not one of the strong points of the Conservative
government unless they want to bring in the draft or compulsory military
service, that is when they get the majority.
 
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CDNBear

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Liberalman said:
CDNBear

You just have to remember who changed the
rebuilding military mission to a combative one and who's idea was it to extend it
a couple of times. Poor Harper he wants an expanded role which requires
more soldiers which requires more population which requires more
immigration which is not one of the strong points of the Conservative
government unless they want to bring in the draft or compulsory military
service, that is when they get the majority.
Click to expand...
Sorry, you may subscribe to PET's mangled definition of a fighting force, I don't.

All Martin did was start rebuilding what the Liberals tore apart.

Yes Martin, not Harper.

Get help for those delusions.
 
CDNBear

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Liberalman said:
OKedokie
Click to expand...
Ya, that would be the best response you could give, after I proved your post accusing the cons of destroying Keon's signs, was an outright lie. And of course, the simple fact that Martin started the increase in military spending.
 
Goober

Goober

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Machjo said:
My dad and I rarely discuss politics, but yesterday he'd told me how he and other local retired veterans were angry with the Conservative the local incumbent for having voted along with his Conservative Party to reduce military pensions for retired veterans.


Now I already knew veterans were angry at how the Conservative Party had abandoned injured veterans and their families and certainly expected a backlash on that front, but had not realised they after military pensions too. Ouch!

Seeing that Layton has already been praised on TV last week by the veterans' ombudsman for his stance on standing up for veterans and their families, that the local Green candidate in our riding is in fact a retired airforce colonel (i.e. someone local veterans are likely to trust to actually care for our veterans and not just kick them and their families to the curb after they're injured or retired after sending them off to fight abroad), and that our local Conservative MP had voted along with his party to make these cuts, I wonder how the military vote could hurt the Conservatives this time around. Make no mistake about it, most veterans do in fact vote Conservative, so a veterans' exodus from the the local Conservative could certainly hurt him big time, especially with a military contestant in the running.
Click to expand...


I joined in 76 and the saying in the Military was this

Vote Liberal get a raise - No equipment
Vote Conservative - No raise - No equipment

What you Father is referring to on Vets is May 05 - Liberals and Cons seeing the 7 Billion dollar outlay for veterans injured -Killed - looked at that and in one week passed the New Veterans Charter - while it has improved the Veterans are still screwed royally -
 
C

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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I was going to hold my nose and vote Liberal this election but after Ignatief announced a Canadian version of the US GI bill now I can happily vote Liberal.

Supporting the troops means more than just empty words but endless demands on some of the most highly motivated and civicly minded individuals in our society. If you look at the US after WW II it was the large amounts of vets who went to college, got degrees and went on to help build some of the strongest preforming companies of the last half century that made America the success it was.
 
Goober

Goober

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Cobalt_Kid said:
I was going to hold my nose and vote Liberal this election but after Ignatief announced a Canadian version of the US GI bill now I can happily vote Liberal.

Supporting the troops means more than just empty words but endless demands on some of the most highly motivated and civicly minded individuals in our society. If you look at the US after WW II it was the large amounts of vets who went to college, got degrees and went on to help build some of the strongest preforming companies of the last half century that made America the success it was.
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Then do some research and see how the new Veterans Charter screws the veteran - lots of info on the Net - Passed in 1 week by the Libs and Cons - Best think again as you will have to do more than hold your nose if you swallow that BS by Iggy
 
Omicron

Omicron

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Goober said:
Then do some research and see how the new Veterans Charter screws the veteran - lots of info on the Net - Passed in 1 week by the Libs and Cons - Best think again as you will have to do more than hold your nose if you swallow that BS by Iggy
Click to expand...

Well, if Iggy implements a Canadian equivalent of the US GI Bill of rights, it means he's over-turning the effects of an earlier decision to vote with the Refocons.

Technically, it means he's changed his mind...

wow... History was made today when a politician changed his mind according to the sentiments of a democracy.

Now, if *Harper* changed his mind according to the will of the people, I would indeed mark that in the history books as a red-letter day, but come on... Liberals?

Liberals are all *about* figuring out how to keep the sheep contented in order for business to flow.

As an aside, I gotta confess... I was actually surprised to learn there was no Canadian equivalent to the US GI Bill of rights.

I took it for granted such a thing existed defacto in Canuckland. My dad's from the states, and he put himself through college on GI benefits, and I just presumed that's how it was for everyone with vet-dad's on both sides of the border. Now that I think about it, dad always got the better jobs and we ate better.

I have uncles in the US who were career and would be hooped in their current physical condition without the GI benefits. There is *no* *way* they'd be able to stay alive without it.

And now I'm double-mad, because I know enough about economics to know whom it is really benefiting to give vets a one-time buy off.

Let me put it this way... sustained benefits do not cost the average tax-payer in the long run... it's the guys who want to take the money they save by not feeding into ongoing payments, invest it, for it to start compounding.

I can't believe this is not causing internal Refocon party dissent.

Real conservatives would totally take care of vets. Wall-street bangers would pay them as little as possible in order to have more left over to invest, and now the two classes are munged together into the same party under rule of strict foreman Harper yapping about how mergers are dangerous.

Takes one to know one.

In any case, I can get just as vociferously philovitalic as any of the rest of you, but there comes a line, and the line is forces-respect. In case you didn't know, that's what defines the borders of a nation. Even if you know you'll lose, it's going to cost blood.

Which means... hmm... thinking long-range economics I'd vote Green, and thinking current support for the working downtrodden poor in the here and now I'd vote NDP, and thinking in terms of general overall balance of the wants of the people versus the wants of business I'd vote Liberal, but now I just decided to make it simple...

Whoever sets up the best package for vets gets my vote.
 
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damngrumpy

damngrumpy

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Mar 16, 2005
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The politics of special interest has not so far appeared in this election but that will
change pretty soon. Vets are on the list and so are the long list of social groups
about to surface. Single mothers, the working poor, students of post secondary,
farmers, and a whole host of others like environmentalists who also know the
Green Party is really a movement not a party, and is about raising money for the
movement, environment be damned. The election is about to get interesting and
all those undecideds have not started to move yet. Once people also begin to
understand the Tories have mismanaged the economy and turned into into an
economy of deficit and debt, they are not going to be happy.
 
Omicron

Omicron

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damngrumpy said:
the
Green Party is really a movement not a party,
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On the scale of how democracy was a "movement, not a party" back in the days of monarchy?

The US Republican party originally came into being in order to stop slavery.

Was that a "movement", or the action of a political party?
 
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C

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Goober said:
Then do some research and see how the new Veterans Charter screws the veteran - lots of info on the Net - Passed in 1 week by the Libs and Cons - Best think again as you will have to do more than hold your nose if you swallow that BS by Iggy
Click to expand...

It's better than slashing disabled veterans benefits like the Harper did shortly after taking power. Listing to retired and disabled Maj Mark Campbell on Canada AM it kind of surprised me that a party that claims to support the troops so much cut lifetime disability benefits to wounded vets by as much as 40% in 2006(according to Campbell).

Our soldiers are going to need something to help them reintegrate into society after the ****hole many of them have been sent into for little gain and with educational costs spiralling out of reach for many Canadians a GI bill is something I can support.
 
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