Does Canada need a US-style Bill of Rights?

[Machjo]

I could see this as a means to scrap Canada's Official Languages Act (no official language, just as is the case in the US right now, thus, at least legally putting all language groups on an equal footing before the law), and Canada's separate school system as it appears in some provinces (owing to a complete separation of Church and state in the US Bill of Rights).

In short, if we cannot agree on matters of language and religious policy, then the easiest solution is to simply prohibit the government from passing any laws in that regard, thus putting all on an equal footing and thus granting more freedom to all.

 

[CDNBear]

And the PM to suggest such a thing, would be tarred by the opposition, as a bigot, racist, neanderthal, and so on.

 

[Colpy]

Interesting thought, but completely impossible.

It would require an amendment to our constitution that would not be welcomed by any of the governments in the country. Not one.

 

[Machjo]

Oh, and before anyone says we already have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that Charter does not override the laws regarding the Catholic separate schools in our BNA, and it also discriminates against the First Nations by explicitly giving English and French speakers a special privilege, thus not making all equal before the law. A US-style Bill of Rights would have the power to override all of these, since it makes it very clear that the state is not to pass religious laws, nor does it give any special ethnic linguistic group any special privilege not granted others equally.

There is no doubt that such a Bill is far superior to the Canadian one in terms of putting all on an equal footing.

 

[CDNBear]

Oh, and before anyone says we already have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that Charter does not override the laws regarding the Catholic separate schools in our BNA, and it also discriminates against the First Nations by explicitly giving English and French speakers a special privilege, thus not making all equal before the law.

You haven't been in a court house lately have you?

"Would the Tamil interpreter, please come to courtroom 102"

In our justice system, miscommunication is grounds for miss trials, acquittals, overturned verdicts, and appeals.

A US-style Bill of Rights would have the power to override all of these, since it makes it very clear that the state is not to pass religious laws, nor does it give any special ethnic linguistic group any special privilege not granted others equally.

And yet English is a prerequisite for US citizenship.

There is no doubt that such a Bill is far superior to the Canadian one in terms of putting all on an equal footing.

Who isn't being treated equally?

 

[petros]

The Canadian Bill of Rights is a federal statute and bill of rights enacted by Prime Minister John Diefenbaker's government on August 10, 1960....

 

[TenPenny]

I think there is a reason that in Canada, French and English are given special status, in recognition that the political and legal framework of our country comes from the French and English settlers. Do we really want to give ALL languages equal status? First Nations are already special, by virtue of being their own nations within Canada.

I don't think we want to give every language group equal footing with French and English, do you? I don't believe we can afford it.

 

[Machjo]

And the PM to suggest such a thing, would be tarred by the opposition, as a bigot, racist, neanderthal, and so on.

Harper doesn't have a brain? It would all be in the marketing.

First off so as not to attract any anti-Americanism, don't even mention the US while presenting the idea.

Secondly, present its advantages for the various groups. To take a few examples:

Since the federal level would no longer have any official language, government departments would become much more pragmatic language-wise, either simply conforming to provincial, territorial or local language policies or simply adopting the most significant local language. Quebec would love that, and so would Nunavut most likely. And quite frankly, probably many other provinces and territories too.

Also, many on the left would likely love the idea of scrapping the separate system from the BNA along with religiously-based statutory holidays, etc.

 

[CDNBear]

The Canadian Bill of Rights is a federal statute and bill of rights enacted by Prime Minister John Diefenbaker's government on August 10, 1960....

Try here...

Canadian Bill of Rights

That way you won't have to copy the opening line from wikiality the next time.

 

[gerryh]

This is just another back door thread for machjo to restart his continual whine about the separate school system in Ontario and Alberta.

 

[CDNBear]

Harper doesn't have a brain?

Can you please show me where I said anything about Harper?

It would all be in the marketing.

And the spin would make you dizzy.

First off so as not to attract any anti-Americanism, don't even mention the US while presenting the idea.

Good idea. But I bet someone catches on.

Secondly, present its advantages for the various groups.

Oh, you mean pander to the squeaky people. I hate that.

To take a few examples:

Since the federal level would no longer have any official language, government departments would become much more pragmatic language-wise, either simply conforming to provincial, territorial or local language policies or simply adopting the most significant local language. Quebec would love that, and so would Nunavut most likely. And quite frankly, probably many other provinces and territories too.

Do you pay taxes?

Also, many on the left would likely love the idea of scrapping the separate system from the BNA along with religiously-based statutory holidays, etc.

Don't start messing with the workin' mans paid days off dude!!! That could get you killed.

 

[petros]

Googled it did ya?

 

[Machjo]

I think there is a reason that in Canada, French and English are given special status, in recognition that the political and legal framework of our country comes from the French and English settlers. Do we really want to give ALL languages equal status? First Nations are already special, by virtue of being their own nations within Canada.

I don't think we want to give every language group equal footing with French and English, do you? I don't believe we can afford it.

No official language would mean that government departments would simply become more pragmatic in their language policies. Overall, it would likely not help the First Nations much in practical terms, but it would be a nice symbolic gesture none the less. Or actually, sorry, it could have some practical benefit in that provincial governments, including Quebec, would feel less pressure to teach Canada's second official language in their schools, since Canada would no longer have any official language, thus potentially, at least in some communities, increasing the chances of local indigenous languages being offered as an alternative to French or English as a second language. From a free-market standpoint, English and French would continue to attract the most students, but at least you can't blame the government for that. But when government laws themselves impose it, then it's no longer the free market that's to blame. So though it would help the First Nations very little in practical terms, it would still be a nice gesture in principle by giving no language community any special privilege before the law, with only the free market to guide it.

 

[CDNBear]

This is just another back door thread for machjo to restart his continual whine about the separate school system in Ontario and Alberta.

Ahhh, I wasn't aware of that. Thanx for the heads up Gh.

Googled it did ya?

As I do with most things that look that clinical. Don't feel bad, I do it to anything that looks that sterile. Especially from you. You're usually more colourful then that.

 

[petros]

The Jesuits were mean to Machjo?

 

[gerryh]

No official language would mean that government departments would simply become more pragmatic in their language policies. Overall, it would likely not help the First Nations much in practical terms, but it would be a nice symbolic gesture none the less. Or actually, sorry, it could have some practical benefit in that provincial governments, including Quebec, would feel less pressure to teach Canada's second official language in their schools, since Canada would no longer have any official language, thus potentially, at least in some communities, increasing the chances of local indigenous languages being offered as an alternative to French or English as a second language. From a free-market standpoint, English and French would continue to attract the most students, but at least you can't blame the government for that. But when government laws themselves impose it, then it's no longer the free market that's to blame. So though it would help the First Nations very little in practical terms, it would still be a nice gesture in principle by giving no language community any special privilege before the law, with only the free market to guide it.

Jeez, you're gonna throw this one in too? Each and every school district and school, right now, has the right to teach the local FN language. As a matter of fact there is NO RESTRICTION on language education. The only thing "stopping" schools from offering "cree" is a teacher and enough students to fill a class. So you can drop that non starter from your repertoire.

 

[Machjo]

Can you please show me where I said anything about Harper?


Do you pay taxes?

Yes I do. Why would I want, let's say, a government office in Vancouver to be wasting money on French classes if the government employees there already know English and Chinese which they'd learnt at their own expense, and the locals their serving are quite satisfied with that? And if no one in that office knows Chinese, then tough.

And of course if you walk into a federal government office in central Quebec and they don't know English, again, tough. Or if you walk into some federal government office in some small Nunavut town where they speak poor English and French, but do serve the majority of the local population well, then again, it's up to you to learn the local lingo. By no longer guaranteeing an absolute right to services in this or that language, it puts everyone on an equal footing in that the onus is on you to learn the local lingo or not move their at all. That would save money and put everyone on a more equal footing in that all would be treated the same way.

Don't start messing with the workin' mans paid days off dude!!! That could get you killed.

Simple solution. Add those holidays to the number of days he can request off throughout the year. He'd like that since the government would no longer be telling him that he must take a day off on Christmas Day when he might not want to.

Googled it did ya?

Tootled what?

 

[CDNBear]

No official language would mean that government departments would simply become more pragmatic in their language policies. Overall, it would likely not help the First Nations much in practical terms, but it would be a nice symbolic gesture none the less. Or actually, sorry, it could have some practical benefit in that provincial governments, including Quebec, would feel less pressure to teach Canada's second official language in their schools, since Canada would no longer have any official language, thus potentially, at least in some communities, increasing the chances of local indigenous languages being offered as an alternative to French or English as a second language. From a free-market standpoint, English and French would continue to attract the most students, but at least you can't blame the government for that. But when government laws themselves impose it, then it's no longer the free market that's to blame. So though it would help the First Nations very little in practical terms, it would still be a nice gesture in principle by giving no language community any special privilege before the law, with only the free market to guide it.

There's nothing stopping anyone from living within the confines of their native tongue Mach.

Do you live near Markham?

Jeez, you're gonna throw this one in too? Each and every school district and school, right now, has the right to teach the local FN language. As a matter of fact there is NO RESTRICTION on language education. The only thing "stopping" schools from offering "cree" is a teacher and enough students to fill a class. So you can drop that non starter from your repertoire.

This is true. There are classes at the local highschool, teaching the Ojibway language. I know of Cree classes, and in some areas, Onondaga, Seneca, and so on. Demographics play a big role.

 

[Machjo]

The Jesuits were mean to Machjo?

Nah. I was raised Catholic and attended a public Catholic elementary school in Ontario. I just don't consider Catholics to be a superior race of people entitled to a special constitutional privilege not granted to others. Is that really too hard to understand? Same applies to the Official Languages Act. I don't consider Canada's French and English speakers to be a superior race of people entitled to a special privilege either. Put everyone on an equal footing. I realize this scares you, though I really don't know why.

 

[petros]

Heritage language courses have been options in the schools around here for ages.

Nah. I was raised Catholic and attended a public Catholic elementary school in Ontario. I just don't consider Catholics to be a superior race of people entitled to a special constitutional privilege not granted to others. Is that really too hard to understand? Same applies to the Official Languages Act. I don't consider Canada's French and English speakers to be a superior race of people entitled to a special privilege either. Put everyone on an equal footing. I realize this scares you, though I really don't know why.

Race?