Liberal MP: Canada's "obsolete" health care needs some privatization

Should Canada allow more privatization in our health care system?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • No

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Hows that for making waves? Keith Martin, a medical doctor by profession, and a BC Liberal is saying that Canadians should have the option to pay for medical services in a system that operates parallel to the public Canada Health Act system.

Right on Keith! I agree wholeheartedly. It's a debate we need to have. Public resources are constrained, if private insurance can take the burden off, then why not? Someone on the public system moves ahead to the spot where I would have been. Service sooner.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
The system has been "inviting" (wrong word) privatization in healthcare over the last decade or so in the manner that they (provincial healthcare programs) are being cut relative to the scope of coverage... Once a service is eliminated, the private sector can jump in.

Add in the P3's and it sends a message that the public system is in desperate need of a overhaul.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Hows that for making waves? Keith Martin, a medical doctor by profession, and a BC Liberal is saying that Canadians should have the option to pay for medical services in a system that operates parallel to the public Canada Health Act system.

Right on Keith! I agree wholeheartedly. It's a debate we need to have. Public resources are constrained, if private insurance can take the burden off, then why not? Someone on the public system moves ahead to the spot where I would have been. Service sooner.

I've heard that Keith Martin is one of the brightest candles on the cake, now maybe others will catch on. :smile:
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Why bother with a parallel system? Canadians with money already have access to private health care if they want it. It is found in the US and any other country that offers for profit medicine. There are very few advantages to constructing a parallel private system for the average Canadian. When Britain attempted such a system during the Thatcher era it was found to draw skilled physicians away from the public system, creating longer waiting lists and even a shortage of skilled medical personnel in the public health sector. Unless someone can explain how those two problems can be overcome I see little benefit in the introduction of still more private medical services in Canada.

It is worth noting that if a parallel private system actually worked the way it should then the USA would have a much more cost effective system instead of the most expensive system on the planet. It is also worth noting that Canada already has the second highest per capita health costs after the US largely due to the large number of for profit medical services offered in Canada.

The fact that such a plan is being advocated by someone who is a medical professional is hardly surprising. More than anything else this seems like a plan to give already wealthy doctors an even larger share of health care profits.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
The medical system (I won't call it a health care system because it isn't) has been purposely dumbed down at the request of Big Pharma and the medical industry. They want privatization just like in the US so they can really soak us. The system is broke because it was broken on purpose.

When the "Health Care" system in inclusive of more holistic and preventative medicines, it can be call a health care system. As it is we just have a sickness industry.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Before privatizing they should using common sense. I found out yesterday that my mom had a heart attack. My brother and I (her only children) don't live remotely close to her. We tried contacting her doctor to find out how she's doing. He won't discuss it on the phone, we're suppose to visit his office half way across BC. Of course he needs to bill the Province for his discussion with us (then claim everything costs too much and we need private healthcare). If greed like that is the expectation it's no wonder we can't afford the public system.
 
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Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
:-( Whether or not we want it, it would appear we are going to get it. Just a matter of when.

The health care infrastructure has been scaled back to the point where the system doesn't work, and long wait times are just one of the results. Overcrowded ERs another, employee burn out another. List goes on.

The politicos are working hard for their corporate masters to effect a system not unlike that of the ol' US of A, where everyone is well taken care of....................not.

Whad'ya think?? Dr.'s and nurses priced themselves out of the market?? Hell, lots of them have actually gone South where the pay is BETTER!!

Hospital workers have the nerve to demand a living wage in return for work?? The freakin nerve!!

I don't know if you'd call it a mind or not, but, whatever I have, it's boggled.:confused3:
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
Before privatizing they should using common sense. I found out yesterday that my mom had a heart attack. My brother and I (her only children) don't live remotely close to her. We tried contacting her doctor to find out how she's doing. He won't discuss it on the phone, we're suppose to visit his office half way across BC. Of course he needs to bill the Province for his discussion with us (then claim everything costs too much and we need private healthcare). If greed like that is the expectation it's no wonder we can't afford the public system.

Two questions:

Did your mother give him permission to talk to you about her health?
Do you do work for free?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Canadians with money already have access to private health care if they want it. It is found in the US and any other country that offers for profit medicine.


Why not allow the practice in Canada and keep the revenues/taxes here?


There are very few advantages to constructing a parallel private system for the average Canadian. When Britain attempted such a system during the Thatcher era it was found to draw skilled physicians away from the public system, creating longer waiting lists and even a shortage of skilled medical personnel in the public health sector. Unless someone can explain how those two problems can be overcome I see little benefit in the introduction of still more private medical services in Canada.



A parallel system will also draw physicians to the jurisdiction from the outside. The American experience saw many Canadian doctors flee to the US because of better opportunities and lower taxes.

In terms of the stress on the public system, there have been a number of models proposed that would require all private-practice physicians to "put in" a minimum number of hours into public practice.



The fact that such a plan is being advocated by someone who is a medical professional is hardly surprising. More than anything else this seems like a plan to give already wealthy doctors an even larger share of health care profits.


Talk to a doctor and hear their side of the argument. Any Dr. that maintains an office outside of a hospital campus is fully responsible for all of the associated costs including rent, equipment, supplies and staff. That is not a cheap proposition and comes right off the top of their income. Family physicians/general practice doctors are paid the least in the system. There is a reason that any family practice absolutely needs to employ a number of physicians in that the operating costs would consume all of the income if it were 1 or 2 doctors.

With this in mind, considering that these Dr.'s already pay privately for this overhead, they are essentially already operating as a private service, the only difference is that there is one payer (the province). There is no real need to develop a parallel system, everything is already in place; all that needs to happen is for the system to loosen the regulations and allow more doctors licenses to actually practice.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
'Wealthy doctors' does not include GPs. An average GP here bills somewhere in the $250,000 per year range; 45 to 50% goes to staff salaries, rent, office expenses, leaving a personal income of, say, $125,000 per year, which is on par with what a skilled tradesman makes in the construction industry if they do some overtime.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Unfortunately, even now it is difficult to get doctors in rural areas. If we had a two tire system, it would be impossible.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Considering that this has never been tried, it's fair to say that you don't really know what would happen.

There is only one problem I can see with the private system. Under the public system Doctors are guaranteed to get paid, but under a private system there may be a lot of bad debt.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
There is only one problem I can see with the private system. Under the public system Doctors are guaranteed to get paid, but under a private system there may be a lot of bad debt.


Very true, however, what we are beginning to see in Canada are medical practices that serve private patients and also contract to the public medical system. The upshot for the public system is that you have the private sector willing to develop, equip and staff a facility that will have direct applications to the public healthcare system.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
Unfortunately, even now it is difficult to get doctors in rural areas. If we had a two tire system, it would be impossible.

Actually, under a private-enterprise model, businesses go where they can make money. Take a look around at where dentists locate - dentists are the classic private-enterprise health care example. If you see dentists in a rural area, chances are a private doctor would make a living in the same area.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
This would only really work if the private system can show that it would provide an 'upgraded' service to justify the additional cost. But it's important to make sure that it is marketed and actually functions as an optional 'additional service' which doesn't undermine the public health care system. That said, it may not be half bad at allowing Canadians to have a better metric to determine the quality of healthcare they really need.

The only bad bit is that the quality of public healthcare may go down or cease to exist if taxpayers become unwilling to support it after this 'private injection'.