The prison city: a good idea?

[Machjo]

I'd like to know your thoughts on the following reform of the prison system:

1. We gradually eliminate Canada's current prisons and replace them with two: one for men, and one for women, possibly with other means of dealing with female inmates who are pregnant or with children.

2. These two (or possibly three, as mentioned above concerning maternal inmates) prisons, would not be regular prisons, but rather prison cities.

By prison city, I don't necessarily mean a massive city, but something big enough to count as a 'city' or at least 'town' none-the-less (let's say the radius of 2 square kilometres).

Naturally, these cities would also be fortified, and possibly isolated from other population centres too. They would also be permeable at least to non-inmates of the same sex (subject to security checks to ensure identity, gender, and any concealed weapons, drugs, etc. of course). This would mean that non-inmates of the same sex could enter or leave these cities at will, though of course the inmates could not. However, only inmates would be allowed to reside within its walls, the others being strictly day visitors.

The result of such a policy is that businesses could in fact invest in these cities and establish companies there just like in regular society, and do business with the inmates. The advantages would be that inmates would still be required to work, buy their own food, pay their own rent, and also pay a prison residency tax to offset the costs of guarding them. Of course inmates suffering from illiteracy, lack of education, or some addiction that contributed to his imprisonment could still receive the necessary help to get the education or therapy he needs to ensure he comes out of prison a better man or woman. Otherwise, they'd just work in prison and live their lives more or less like we do out of prison.

Another advantage is that a prisoner, once released from prison, might be able to continue to work at the same company (though granted, once no longer a registered prisoner, he'd still have to reside off-grounds and enter only as a day-time visitor to go to work every day). Many such former prisoners could ask for transfers from their employers later to other locations, or some companies might have offices both on and off-site just outside prison walls, so that once a prisoner is released, he can be transfered to the offsite office just outside the prison walls, near where he could rent another apartment.

I believe the concept of a prison-city could make prisoners less economically dependent on the general society.

Any ideas on this?

 

[JLM]

I think the idea has possibilities, but I think I'd start out slowly. Start with maybe 300 prisoners who are the least screwed up, fairly intelligent and capable and are deemed salvagable. Set up a small town, (with the ability to expand) and see how that works.

 

[Ariadne]

Lima has some prison cities. People don't fare all that well, but at least they're off the streets. Gangs are the first thing that forms, and everything else follows, including prison justice. I think the model has been tried in third world countries, and it's a complete disaster.

 

[wulfie68]

When I read this, I had visions of the Kirk Russel movie "Escape from New York"...

What is this exactly supposed to accomplish? You'll still need guards and support staff or it won't work and if you isolate the guards you increase the amount of danger they face. If you want to put society's worst offenders on an island and drop in supplies, you'll end up with anarchy (and undoubtedly fewer inmates as they kill each other off for the supplies) with no way to release/parole offenders that have done their time.

 

[mystimorn]

As someone else said this is a possibility. But it would take a lot of thought, and planning. What prisons need right now is to go back to the prisoners actually working for their keep. Vegetable farming, making license plates, the lesser offenders working on farms outside the prison (under watch of course) that sort of thing. That includes working to be able to take university courses too, like many kids of today have to do. Those sorts of things. imo
Mysti
Mysti

 

[JLM]

I think for many of the crimes involving property where the offender is no risk physically to the population at large we have to think about getting away from prisons altogether (we can't afford them and they just put delinquents together with other delinquents). There are other means of meting out punishment.

 

[Liberalman]

Put the prison community near Calgary in Broke Back country

Seriously unless the prison is on an island like Alcatraz but a lot bigger that's the only way it will work.

 

[JLM]

Put the prison community near Calgary in Broke Back country

Seriously unless the prison is on an island like Alcatraz but a lot bigger that's the only way it will work.

Ellesmere Island might work.

 

[captain morgan]

Put the prison community near Calgary in Broke Back country

Seriously unless the prison is on an island like Alcatraz but a lot bigger that's the only way it will work.

There is plenty of secure land up near the arctic circle

 

[Liberalman]

There is plenty of secure land up near the arctic circle

Years ago maybe but it's oil country and in international dispute

 

[Ron in Regina]

Put the prison community near Calgary in Broke Back country

Seriously unless the prison is on an island like Alcatraz but a lot bigger that's the only way it will work.

I was thinking more along the lines of downtown Toronto, or even better
would be the 2 sq Km's surrounding Parliament Hill....

YouTube - Escape From LA Trailer

 

[captain morgan]

Years ago maybe but it's oil country and in international dispute

there is lots of land that has no commercial value, besides, if an international conflict ensues, transport the prisoners to the shores of the nation where the dispute is,. That ought to create some havoc.

 

[Tonington]

I think there would be more organized crime. And more prisoners leaving with an education in organized crime.

 

[Liberalman]

I was thinking more along the lines of downtown Toronto, or even better
would be the 2 sq Km's surrounding Parliament Hill....

Toronto wouldn't do more like western Canada you know cowboy country and about Ottawa maybe because there is a lot of crooks there already

 

[JLM]

Toronto wouldn't do more like western Canada you know cowboy country and about Ottawa maybe because there is a lot of crooks there already

What have cowboys done to deserve this?

 

[Albertabound]

In my mind, they are just preparing for the coming police state by the way is why they have G8 summits in major cities......test runs.

Many of those who have lost their jobs and homes in the United States due to the lingering economic recession are ending up in jail, according to a new study released by an independent think tank Thursday.

There is a strong link between poverty and incarceration in the United states, according to the report, "Money Well Spent: How positive social investments will reduce incarceration rates", by the Justice Policy Institute (JPI).

The report's findings on the relationship between poverty and the justice system suggests that more and more people from poor and low-income communities are being arrested and jailed, even though nationwide, crime rates have fallen.

"What we have seen in this research is that there is less focus on safety for the poor and more on policing and arrests," Tracy Velázquez, executive director of the Washington-based JPI, told IPS.

The report notes that as prison populations have grown, so too have racial disparities in the justice system.

"This is especially evident in arrest and incarceration patterns for drug offences," said Sarah Lyons, National Emerson Hunger Fellow and primary author of the report, who added that without adequate funding for social services, it is less likely that people will be able to succeed and avoid contact with the justice system.

Despite comparable usage of illicit drugs, in 2008, African Americans, who make up 12.2 percent of the general population, comprised 44 percent of those incarcerated for drug offences, according to the report.

Researchers say that disproportionate enforcement of drug laws in communities of colour destabilises families and communities and decreases the likelihood of positive outcomes for children and other family members left behind.

Due to the prolonged economic meltdown, many states are now making drastic cuts in funding for social services - such as health, education, and public housing - but not on policing and prison improvement and expansion.

There are nearly two million people behind bars in the U.S., most poor whites and people of colour, making the United States the number one country in the world in terms of the imprisonment rate.

The report notes that about 16 percent of incarcerated people also experienced homelessness before being arrested.

"Most of these people are significantly more likely to have both a mental illness and a substance addiction, which frequently go untreated," said Nastassia Walsh of JPI. She said that states with higher high school graduation rates and college enrollment have lower crime rates than those with lower educational attainment levels.

The JPI study points out that the stress of living in poverty is a "risk factor" for experiencing mental health problems, and that many people who want treatment can't afford it.

"More than 50 percent people in prisons are suffering from mental illness of some kind," said Walsh, who holds that increased investment in mental health and substance abuse treatment can improve public safety and reduce criminal justice involvement.

According to the study's findings, investments in job training and employment have been associated with heightened public safety. Youth who are employed are more likely to avoid justice involvement. In addition, people who are incarcerated are more likely to report having had extended periods of unemployment and lower wages than people in the general population.

"It's time for our elected officials to realise that creating safe, healthy communities is a better investment in our country's future than more prison beds," stated Velázquez. "Low-income communities and people of colour are bearing the brunt of this recession, as well as of our policies that have led to mass incarceration."

"By shifting our priorities, we can reduce these disproportionate impacts and make a real difference, especially for our country's children and families," she said.

More funding for affordable housing, education and employment could help turn around the lives of people struggling with homelessness, including children and youth, who are particularly affected by lack of housing, the report says.

'It's a question of where we choose to spend our money," said Velázquez. "Until we quit funneling tax dollars into prisons and policing practices that sweep large numbers of people into the system — many of whom pose little risk to public safety — we should not be surprised to see incarceration rates continue to climb."

Last year, the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) expressed similar concerns about the lack of progress to end racial discrimination in the U.S. criminal justice system and urged Washington to take practical actions to end unjust police actions against the poor and minorities.

The international body documented a number of cases that showed that police officials in many cities were not only engaged in acts that violated the U.S. constitution, but also the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.

The report's authors urged the U.S. government to take actions to comply with that international human rights treaty.

 

[taxslave]

I thought cities were more or less like prisons except the inmates are there voluntarily.
When CFB Holberg closed we tried to have it made into a minimum security prison camp and have the prisoners do enhanced forestry work and look after trails in Cape Scott park. No governments were interested. Too far from resources they said, even though there was a modern school and hospital in place. I think they meant resources for government employees.

 

[Machjo]

I think for many of the crimes involving property where the offender is no risk physically to the population at large we have to think about getting away from prisons altogether (we can't afford them and they just put delinquents together with other delinquents). There are other means of meting out punishment.

Where they are no physical danger, replace prison with fines. Hit them in the pocket book. Prison should be reserved for those who need to be kept separate for safety reasons. But that still should not stop them, within the confines of the prison city, to work and earn their keep, and if they work hard, to even save for university. We must ensure though that it does not become advantageous for a person to commit a crime to go to prison for university of course, which is a risk if we guarantee employment to inmates but not the general population.

 

[Curiosity]

I see some future possibilities once the wrinkles are ironed out

Could establish school or education in trades, have two or three different trades earning money for the prison system itself with a bit put aside for the inmates to spend as they wish on extras.

Locking a human up with little or no stimulation of the brain, you will soon create a lesser being regardless of the crime committed, but if the prison population were considered new material and start at the beginning of where they "broke from society", there could be some astounding results.

I'm gonna put my faith in this - there will be incidents of brutality or failure but I'll bet the majority of
the population would thrive if they had something to brag about that was legal and they were learning how to
build, create, design, think, even speak another language - every tiny step leads somewhere.

 

[Machjo]

I see some future possibilities once the wrinkles are ironed out

Could establish school or education in trades, have two or three different trades earning money for the prison system itself with a bit put aside for the inmates to spend as they wish on extras.

Locking a human up with little or no stimulation of the brain, you will soon create a lesser being regardless of the crime committed, but if the prison population were considered new material and start at the beginning of where they "broke from society", there could be some astounding results.

I'm gonna put my faith in this - there will be incidents of brutality or failure but I'll bet the majority of
the population would thrive if they had something to brag about that was legal and they were learning how to
build, create, design, think, even speak another language - every tiny step leads somewhere.

Very good points. Also, let's consider that a person is more likely to get into trouble if he just sits there bored out of his skull all day, which is probably the case in many prisons today.

In a prison-city scenario, they'd be busy, either working, studying, or going through rehab for drug, gambling, sex or whatever other addiction or mental problem. Essentially, they'd always be busy bettering themselves by getting off this or that addiction, developing skills and knowledge, or work experience, making their lives much more enjoyable, pleasant, and fulfilling, which would likely eliminate much of the fights in prison.

That said, again, we'd need to ensure the same services are available to all who need them, otherwise we risk actually encouraging people to commit crimes so as to have access to these services.

One possibility could be some kind of peace corp of sorts, based on the US model but with some modifications, based somewhat on the military model whereby you could sign up for so many years of service in exchange for college or university. Many might prefer finding a job and saving up for themselves, but especially for high school students who graduate in the midst of recession, or who come from families that are hostile to higher education (believe it or not, some parents do in fact despise higher education as elitist, and we can only feel for intelligent students coming from such families), something along a modified peace corp model might be beneficial.