Gender pay inequality is a strawman argument.

[ansutherland]

For years I have been hearing of this pay inequality argument. Last I heard, a woman earns 75-80 cents for every dollar a man earns. This argument is often used to illustrate the perceived gender inequality in our society. What this lends people to believe is that women get paid 20-25% less for the exact same job. Though they may earn only pennies on the dollar compared to their male counterparts, they do different work, therefore earn different amounts. Add to this the fact that women are likely going to eclipse men in the work force before long, if they haven't already, they graduate at higher rates, and earn degrees at higher rates. All this begs the question; how many more advantages do you want before you quit complaining? Please keep in mind that I am referring to the West, not Africa or Asia.

What do you think? Is the feminist movement antiquated in the West? Are they, like unions, losing sight of their original intention?

 

[Cliffy]

For years I have been hearing of this pay inequality argument. Last I heard, a woman earns 75-80 cents for every dollar a man earns. This argument is often used to illustrate the perceived gender inequality in our society. What this lends people to believe is that women get paid 20-25% less for the exact same job. Though they may earn only pennies on the dollar compared to their male counterparts, they do different work, therefore earn different amounts. Add to this the fact that women are likely going to eclipse men in the work force before long, if they haven't already, they graduate at higher rates, and earn degrees at higher rates. All this begs the question; how many more advantages do you want before you quit complaining? Please keep in mind that I am referring to the West, not Africa or Asia.

What do you think? Is the feminist movement antiquated in the West? Are they, like unions, losing sight of their original intention?

I guess I have been out of the loop for too long. I'm surprised this argument is still around. I thought that the equality movement was redundant twenty years ago. Perhaps a dose of reality is necessary.
1. Many of the jobs have left the country for cheaper labour markets.
2. I have long felt that since women held the key to happiness for men, they have always held the upper hand. The old. "I have the pussy. I make the rules."
3. Women have always been the ones who have upheld traditions. For example, genital mutilation, in some cultures, is upheld by the women. If women have been oppressed, they have upheld that tradition by passing it on to their sons. If they really didn't like it they would stop raising male chauvinist pigs.
4. The work force has always been the domain of men. In most societies, over the past few millennium, men worked the fields, hunted game or run businesses. Women did the domestic work raising children, gardening and preserving food. That arrangement served the species for thousands of years. Now women want to take over men's domain and abandon theirs. Not that I blame them, but now we have to hire illegal immigrants to do the domestic jobs and we know how people like to whine about that.

Personally, I have never understood why women would want to be equal to a bunch of emotionally retarded, sexually repressed, adolescent dickheads. Can someone explain that to me?

 

[AnnaG]

roflmao this thread is hilarious
Keep going, guys.

 

[karrie]

All this begs the question; how many more advantages do you want before you quit complaining?

Apparently until we get equal pay for equal work.

Pay equality factors in the same job btw... so your assertion that men work harder as, say, a nurse, than women work as a nurse, is why feminism will be around a good long while longer.

 

[Chiliagon]

I just say give the women what they want. allow them to work the same jobs we do, get paid the same amt we get paid.. and have the same risks that we have.

 

[AnnaG]

I just say give the women what they want. allow them to work the same jobs we do, get paid the same amt we get paid.. and have the same risks that we have.

Attaboy, Chili. I'd give you a greenie but it won't let me.

Personally, I have never understood why women would want to be equal to a bunch of emotionally retarded, sexually repressed, adolescent dickheads. Can someone explain that to me?

Then we should be paid more for doing the same jobs because we are emotionally mature, sexually free, and mostly adult.

Apparently until we get equal pay for equal work.

Pay equality factors in the same job btw... so your assertion that men work harder as, say, a nurse, than women work as a nurse, is why feminism will be around a good long while longer.

That, too.

I bet the tune would change if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[karrie]

especially taking into account that women are more and more often the bread winners, and/or raising their children on their own, it seems pay equality is not some trivial matter that a bunch of spoiled housewives are sitting around harping about as a theoretical need or some point to prove.

 

[TenPenny]

Equal pay for equal work is long gone. I doubt that you'll find many places where male nurses and female nurses are paid differently.

The new idea is equal pay for work of equal value. Which is a complete crock of bs.

 

[Lessie]

I guess I have been out of the loop for too long.
4. The work force has always been the domain of men. In most societies, over the past few millennium, men worked the fields, hunted game or run businesses. Women did the domestic work raising children, gardening and preserving food. That arrangement served the species for thousands of years. Now women want to take over men's domain and abandon theirs. Not that I blame them, but now we have to hire illegal immigrants to do the domestic jobs and we know how people like to whine about that.

Personally, I have never understood why women would want to be equal to a bunch of emotionally retarded, sexually repressed, adolescent dickheads. Can someone explain that to me?

Cliffy, you asked a strange questions.
In the last centuries the most people of the World worked only for theirs survival, only for providing the normal conditions of the life. So, it was necessary that men earned money (worked the fields, hunted game, etc) and women - did the all domestic work and cared about children.
But in these days situation is quite different. Now for many people jobs necessary not only for providing a normal style of life - it is method of self-expressions, it is way to realize theirs wishes, dreams, goals….
So, how could you amaze that now women don’t want to do only domestic work and care about children? They want to be a freedom., they want to realize themselves..

But there is another side of this problem. Unfortunately many of nowadays women don’t want to have a family and a children at all. And prefer to spend all time for career. It is a very sadly and it’s very bad for the Society..:-(

 

[Cliffy]

Then we should be paid more for doing the same jobs because we are emotionally mature, sexually free, and mostly adult.

You won't get any argument from me. As a male friend says, women should run the world and men should be nothing more than transient breeding stock.

Cliffy, you asked a strange questions.
In the last centuries the most people of the World worked only for theirs survival, only for providing the normal conditions of the life. So, it was necessary that men earned money (worked the fields, hunted game, etc) and women - did the all domestic work and cared about children.
But in these days situation is quite different. Now for many people jobs necessary not only for providing normal style of life - it is method of self-expressions, it is way to realize theirs wishes, dreams, goals….
So, how could you amaze that now women don’t want to do only domestic work and care about children? They want to be a freedom., they want to realize themselves..

I was just throwing stuff out there to stimulate conversation. To tell you the truth, I would rather be fishing than working at a job or even raising a family. I have never had the urge to prove my manhood by bringing a bunch of kids into this insane world.

But there is another side of this problem. Unfortunately many of nowadays women don’t want to have a family and a children at all. And prefer to spend all time for carrier. It is a very sadly and it’s very bad for the Society..:-(

It is a very effective form of birth control.

 

[Lessie]

To tell you the truth, I would rather be fishing than working at a job or even raising a family. I have never had the urge to prove my manhood by bringing a bunch of kids into this insane world.

It’s means that you don’t like your jobs? Is it boring?

It is a very effective form of birth control.

Yes, maybe it’s sort of natural mechanism of population density control. Upsides with existence of people with non-standard sex orientations.

 

[Cliffy]

It’s means that you don’t like your jobs? Is it boring?

Actually, I'm retired. I have avoided jobs most of my life but I work at stuff I like, like writing books and doing art.

Yes, maybe it’s sort of natural mechanism of population density control. Upsides with existence of people with non-standard sex orientations.

I think that homosexuality is natures way of birth control and disease is another of natures ways of keeping the population under control. Advances in modern medicine have prolonged life beyond natural cycles and has upset the natural order of things.

And I'm too old to be part of the breeding stock.

 

[Lessie]

Actually, I'm retired. I have avoided jobs most of my life but I work at stuff I like, like writing books and doing art.

Really? Interesting. What kind of books did you write? And what kind of art did you do?

Advances in modern medicine have prolonged life beyond natural cycles and has upset the natural order of things.

We can’t return to the primeval caves. Homo sapiens - is one of the Earth species, that changes conditions of the Environment. But Homo sapiens is sapiens! He has an intellect. So, I think, that we have opportunity to solve all World Problem (especially – ecological problem) and save ourselves and Nature.. :roll:

 

[Cliffy]

Really? Interesting. What kind of books did you write? And what kind of art did you do?

American Native spirituality & philosophy (a novel and a non-fiction), history (of our local aboriginal peoples) technical (log cabin building), humour (spoof on forestry practices). I'm kinda eclectic. I write about what interests me at the time I get the writing bug. If you want an idea of what I draw look at my Album in my profile.

We can’t return to the primeval caves. Homo sapiens - is one of the Earth species, that changes conditions of the Environment. But Homo sapiens is sapiens! He has an intellect. So, I think, that we have opportunity to solve all World Problem (especially – ecological problem) and save ourselves and Nature.. :roll:

I hope you are right but I seem to have lost faith in western society and its technology.

By the way, Coyote sometimes eat fox.

 

[Johnnny]

Where i work women are paid based on past work experiences and education... The same as the men, thats everywhere ive worked also.... I make more money than most of my fellow dudes, because of my experience and capabilities...

Actually to be honest there is a girl in the crew im with now that gets special treatment(titties) and doesnt work nearly as much or as hard as the men here now.. Im still working in the afternoon and she is standing around doing squat.... And she makes more money than most of the crew except my boss and his assistant. Her pay equals mine, but i actually do work harder

You won't get any argument from me. As a male friend says, women should run the world and men should be nothing more than transient breeding stock.

cliffy ive always wondered where you find your friends

 

[Lessie]

American Native spirituality & philosophy (a novel and a non-fiction), history (of our local aboriginal peoples) technical (log cabin building), humour (spoof on forestry practices). I'm kinda eclectic. I write about what interests me at the time I get the writing bug. If you want an idea of what I draw look at my Album in my profile.

Uh!! (I mean - "Wow!") :smile:
You are very cathiolically-minded person! Did you work in Science?

By the way, Coyote sometimes eat fox.

Ah ??
8O

No, don't do it. I'm not very tasty.

 

[Cliffy]

Uh!! (I mean - "Wow!") :smile:
You are very cathiolically-minded person! Did you work in Science?

I was draftsman, engineer and graphic artist but mostly I lived in or on the edge of the forest, living off what the forest had to offer in the way of food and medicine.

Ah ??
8O

No, don't do it. I'm not very tasty.

Not to worry, I don't eat carnivores.

cliffy ive always wondered where you find your friends

Yup! I have a knack for attracting weirdos. Might have something to do with my own personality.

 

[Lessie]

I was draftsman, engineer and graphic artist but mostly I lived in or on the edge of the forest, living off what the forest had to offer in the way of food and medicine.

Interesting..

 

[taxslave]

Any industry jobs women are paid the same rate as men. Same as in any service sector. The wage equity thing is flawed because the women like to use an average that includes high paid executives(mostly male). As long as a man and a woman are getting the same pay for the same job we have pay equity.

 

[ansutherland]

Apparently until we get equal pay for equal work.

Pay equality factors in the same job btw... so your assertion that men work harder as, say, a nurse, than women work as a nurse, is why feminism will be around a good long while longer.

It's not for the same work. This is what this whole thread is about. It's about comparing apples to oranges to make an invalid point seem valid. Take this article for example: Gender pay gap widening, study asserts. It makes mention of the pay disparity and that a man with the same education makes more than a woman with equal education, but it is not for the same work. Take for example trades vs. child care. Trades pay well and child care does not. Any guess as to which of those two men choose and which one women choose?

Equal pay for equal work is long gone. I doubt that you'll find many places where male nurses and female nurses are paid differently.

The new idea is equal pay for work of equal value. Which is a complete crock of bs.

Exactly!! Thank you! It is BS. Generally speaking, the market dictates the value of the work one does, so to pay a social worker what an electrician makes would be in contravention of market pressures. I've never been a huge supporter of Adam Smith's Invisible Hand, but in this case it generally rings true.