It's time to re-think marriage!

[ansutherland]

I know this is not neccessarily a political topic, but it can be political in nature as well as having political ramifications.....anyways, I appologize in advance if this is the wrong forum for this type of thread.

An article on MSN today talks at length at the number of divorces that in some way or another are connected to people's use of Face book, MySpace and Twitter. With our divorce rate already well above 50% and our propensity to "look" elsewhere whenever the chance arises, does it not seem time for people to take a hard look at their expectations for relationships and ask themselves if they are being realistic? Cheating has always existed, and among those animals that are often cited as good examples for humans to follow, cheating exists there too. Humans, and more specifically men, will often seek other options (even if that's not what you initially intend) and the more ways to explore options, the more we will stray. This to me seems an opportune time in our history/evolution to finally come to terms with our innate biological predispositions and accept that the institution of marriage is fraught with disaster given our nature. Let’s perhaps rethink our expectations and reconsider what allowances we will make in marriage.

 

[AnnaG]

Coulda stuck it into philosophy or even the Lounge somewhere. No worries. lol I think it's as good a sub-forum as any.

IMO, if one is going to get married, then they should put some effort into making it work, not escape at the first instance something goes screwy. Also if someone is going to get married, they should bloody well realise that they are giving up at least a part of their identity as an individual. A marriage is the beginning of a single new identity. One that comprises two people. Otherwise they are just two people living under the same roof.

 

[Colpy]

I know this is not neccessarily a political topic, but it can be political in nature as well as having political ramifications.....anyways, I appologize in advance if this is the wrong forum for this type of thread.

An article on MSN today talks at length at the number of divorces that in some way or another are connected to people's use of Face book, MySpace and Twitter. With our divorce rate already well above 50% and our propensity to "look" elsewhere whenever the chance arises, does it not seem time for people to take a hard look at their expectations for relationships and ask themselves if they are being realistic? Cheating has always existed, and among those animals that are often cited as good examples for humans to follow, cheating exists there too. Humans, and more specifically men, will often seek other options (even if that's not what you initially intend) and the more ways to explore options, the more we will stray. This to me seems an opportune time in our history/evolution to finally come to terms with our innate biological predispositions and accept that the institution of marriage is fraught with disaster given our nature. Let’s perhaps rethink our expectations and reconsider what allowances we will make in marriage.

Actually, the divorce rate in Canada is 38% before the 30th wedding anniversary.....as you can imagine, divorce after that is rare.

The institution of marriage is fraught with disaster simply because people step into it too casually, and out of it way too easily.

It has a serious effect on society at large......50% of the children of divorced couples never see their father again after the first year of separation (according to statsCan).........and fatherless children, especially fatherless boys........ are a severe problem.

Before we start bashing men, I know of one instance of this, and the woman simply picked up her kid and moved to the other side of the country....no reason.

Full disclosure....I've been married almost 34 years to a woman I met when we were 16 years old........

Marriage is not easy......we've come close......but it requires a dedication and a commitment not ONLY to the other person, but to the concept of marriage itself.......the ideal that you are partners....for life.

We need to strengthen marriage....we have spent too long tearing it apart.

 

[Cliffy]

I have said for decades that monogamy is unnatural. Although a few species in the animal kingdom are monogamous, humans rarely are. There are a variety of reasons why peope seek other partners outside mariage, almost as many as there are people doing it, which is why I think it is unnatural - it is all too prevalent.

 

[AnnaG]

About monogamy:

Is Serial Monogamy Worth Pursuing? | Psychology Today

DEFLATING THE MYTH OF MONOGAMY

http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep01138154.pdf

And one with a few cartoons

ADULT Monogamy: hardwood or softwood? Love, Sex and Natural Selection, A MUST READ website for all mating mammals.

Wheeeeee! Are we having fun yet?

Is Monogamy Linked to Brain Size? - Robin Dunbar - psychology, neurology, primates, brains, evolution, humans, mating, pair, bonds, groups, cortex, size, biology, relationships - sciencestage.comMore fields of science

Why?

Having Trouble With Monogamy? Evolutionary Psychologist Explains Why - Asylum.com

 

[Colpy]

I have said for decades that monogamy is unnatural. Although a few species in the animal kingdom are monogamous, humans rarely are. There are a variety of reasons why peope seek other partners outside mariage, almost as many as there are people doing it, which is why I think it is unnatural - it is all too prevalent.

Then how do the majority of marriages manage to stay together?????

 

[AnnaG]

Then how do the majority of marriages manage to stay together?????

Work. About 20% of humans are hardwired to be monogamous ............ NATURALLY.

 

[Cliffy]

Then how do the majority of marriages manage to stay together?????

Why do some people continue to live in abusive relationships? Why do some people get off sexually only when physically hurt? Why do some women say nothing when their husbands are sexually abusing their kids? Human psychology is very weird and we have just begun to scratch the surface of understanding it.

 

[ansutherland]

Then how do the majority of marriages manage to stay together?????

By lying. We lie like crazy.....we all do.

Actually, the divorce rate in Canada is 38% before the 30th wedding anniversary.....as you can imagine, divorce after that is rare.

The institution of marriage is fraught with disaster simply because people step into it too casually, and out of it way too easily.

It has a serious effect on society at large......50% of the children of divorced couples never see their father again after the first year of separation (according to statsCan).........and fatherless children, especially fatherless boys........ are a severe problem.

Before we start bashing men, I know of one instance of this, and the woman simply picked up her kid and moved to the other side of the country....no reason.

Full disclosure....I've been married almost 34 years to a woman I met when we were 16 years old........

Marriage is not easy......we've come close......but it requires a dedication and a commitment not ONLY to the other person, but to the concept of marriage itself.......the ideal that you are partners....for life.

We need to strengthen marriage....we have spent too long tearing it apart.

I stand corrected on my "over 50%" stat, though I think the 38% is somewhat misleading. First, most of those that have been married for a long time come from a generation less accepting of divorce, thus, less likely to have one. Second, there are not as many people getting married today, rather, common law is the prefered choice for many. If the seperations of common law relationships were to be calculated I'm sure we would see the number climb well above 50%.

 

[VanIsle]

Then how do the majority of marriages manage to stay together?????

As Anna says: with work and I think you already know the answer anyway. I said it before and I'll say it again - love is a decision. For those of you who don't get that - it means quite simply - you make a decision to stay true and to stay married. Everyone falls out of love and in love over and over in the same relationship.

By lying. We lie like crazy.....we all do.

No we don't all lie. I don't lie. I don't believe my husband lied about anything in our relationship in regard to staying true. We both had opportunities that we chose not to act on. He said that all he had to do was think about how much it would hurt him if I ever cheated and it was all he needed to think of to not cheat on me. We've been married over 43 years. I think it helps that both of our parents also had monogamous relationships. Stayed married and until death did they part.
The word out there now is that many women are leaving rather then men and they are not taking the kids with them. Since that has just happened in my own family I've seen first hand what it does to the kids. It's pretty ugly. Their mom has openly chosen both her job (which is nothing special) and her boyfriend over them. They are old enough to see and to be very angry. We are all working hard to make the "end result" a positive thing. I see my grandkids almost everyday and I look after them no less than a full 3 days, usually 4 days. Their Mom chooses to see them approx. 9 hours per week. How do any of you with kids think your kids could handle that? They are 13, 12 and 10.



I stand corrected on my "over 50%" stat, though I think the 38% is somewhat misleading. First, most of those that have been married for a long time come from a generation less accepting of divorce, thus, less likely to have one. Second, there are not as many people getting married today, rather, common law is the prefered choice for many. If the seperations of common law relationships were to be calculated I'm sure we would see the number climb well above 50%.

 

[ironsides]

I have said for decades that monogamy is unnatural. Although a few species in the animal kingdom are monogamous, humans rarely are. There are a variety of reasons why peope seek other partners outside mariage, almost as many as there are people doing it, which is why I think it is unnatural - it is all too prevalent.

So, you think man is a herd animal normally, changed by society into a monogamous species?

 

[Cliffy]

So, you think man is a herd animal normally, changed by society into a monogamous species?

Monogamy came along with the bible and the dictates of the catholic church. They could have nun so you can only have one. Man was never and is not a monogamous species. And don't try to tell me that your dick don't twitch every time you see a nice rack. Most men are monogamous because the fear the wrath of Wife (and the alimony payments). Others are just sneaky. Some are successful and many are not. In the end, it is all in the hands of women (unless you're a rapist) because like the t-shirt said: "I have the pussy, so I make the rules"

 

[ironsides]

Monogamy came along with the bible and the dictates of the catholic church. They could have nun so you can only have one. Man was never and is not a monogamous species. And don't try to tell me that your dick don't twitch every time you see a nice rack. Most men are monogamous because the fear the wrath of Wife (and the alimony payments). Others are just sneaky. Some are successful and many are not. In the end, it is all in the hands of women (unless you're a rapist) because like the t-shirt said: "I have the pussy, so I make the rules"

A simple yes or no would have sufficed.

 

[talloola]

By lying. We lie like crazy.....we all do.



I stand corrected on my "over 50%" stat, though I think the 38% is somewhat misleading. First, most of those that have been married for a long time come from a generation less accepting of divorce, thus, less likely to have one. Second, there are not as many people getting married today, rather, common law is the prefered choice for many. If the seperations of common law relationships were to be calculated I'm sure we would see the number climb well above 50%.

I have been married 51 years to the guy I met in jr. high school. My mother was divorced, my sister and
brother both were divorced, even though back in those times divorce was much more frowned upon, it still
happened, there was abuse within the marriage just as there is today, children were abused just as they
are today, the only difference is that 'things' are brought out in the open 'more' today than back then,
and there are more organizations for people to turn to for help.

And, back then too many marriages stayed together because people would not separate, so much gossip, but
child and spousal support was available back then, but not as open and easy as it is today.

I had four daughters and they 'all' have been divorced. Women will not put up with the 'sh*t and abuse'
they use to, the women are all working, so they have some financial power, and they feel much more
independent, there is good and there is bad attached to that feeling as it makes 'leaving' so easy, without
spending time and effort to repair problems, at least the problems that can be repaired.

Marriage is wonderful when both people do 'not' have a wandering eye, and in this day and age, sex has
been part of relationships so much before marriage, so many different partners, then all of a sudden they
are told they cannot have different sex partners, they don't want that.

Couples live together, then change partners and live with someone else and on it goes, then they get
married with that type of habit behind them, no wonder it doesn't work.

I don't believe that thought that humans were not meant to be monogomous, who's to say that is so, tell that
to the eagles and other wonderful birds who mate forever, sounds like an excuse to me to screw around and
think you have a good reason, and you really believe that, 'do not marry' at all, someone should have
suggested that to Tiger Woods, he obviously couldn't be, and didn't want to be faithful, now his beautiful
wife and mother of his two kids, is gone, and he wonders why?, give me a break.

 

[ironsides]

I have been married 51 .

Got me beat by 5 years.

 

[talloola]

Got me beat by 5 years.

I was 13 and he was 15 when we met, and married when I was 19, (just a month shy of 20), and he
was 22. We parted a couple of times during our teens, but always ended up back together.
Sept 27/l958

 

[ansutherland]

I have been married 51 years to the guy I met in jr. high school. My mother was divorced, my sister and
brother both were divorced, even though back in those times divorce was much more frowned upon, it still
happened, there was abuse within the marriage just as there is today, children were abused just as they
are today, the only difference is that 'things' are brought out in the open 'more' today than back then,
and there are more organizations for people to turn to for help.

And, back then too many marriages stayed together because people would not separate, so much gossip, but
child and spousal support was available back then, but not as open and easy as it is today.

I had four daughters and they 'all' have been divorced. Women will not put up with the 'sh*t and abuse'
they use to, the women are all working, so they have some financial power, and they feel much more
independent, there is good and there is bad attached to that feeling as it makes 'leaving' so easy, without
spending time and effort to repair problems, at least the problems that can be repaired.

Marriage is wonderful when both people do 'not' have a wandering eye, and in this day and age, sex has
been part of relationships so much before marriage, so many different partners, then all of a sudden they
are told they cannot have different sex partners, they don't want that.

Couples live together, then change partners and live with someone else and on it goes, then they get
married with that type of habit behind them, no wonder it doesn't work.

I don't believe that thought that humans were not meant to be monogomous, who's to say that is so, tell that
to the eagles and other wonderful birds who mate forever, sounds like an excuse to me to screw around and
think you have a good reason, and you really believe that, 'do not marry' at all, someone should have
suggested that to Tiger Woods, he obviously couldn't be, and didn't want to be faithful, now his beautiful
wife and mother of his two kids, is gone, and he wonders why?, give me a break.

With regards to having the stomach to make the needed repairs in a marriage, who's to say that we should have to make repairs in the first place? A couple here and there is one thing, but if your car is a lemon, it's got to go. This is my whole point, that marriage needs to be re-thought. Life should not be about coping. Life should not be about coming to terms. This is what marriage often offers.....constant sacrifice and coping. Women were at one time stuck, and forced to cope. There were no options for a woman who was beaten. Now, thankfully there are, she can leave, without question. The monogamy part of the question is one which I think needs to be revisited however. This is one of the main reason why couples split up. If however we were to have different allowances and expectations regarding sex, many would avoid the ravages of jealousy and accept that that is nature.

With regards to all of the Monogamous birds that were mentioned, this is pure myth. Genetic testing has confirmed that many of our feathered friends are much like humans. Forming quasi momogamous relationships while fooling around behind their partners back. As is the case with many humans, birs, and other animals, the father is helping to care for offspring he thinks is his, but through genetic testing we know they belong to another man.

 

[VanIsle]

With regards to having the stomach to make the needed repairs in a marriage, who's to say that we should have to make repairs in the first place? A couple here and there is one thing, but if your car is a lemon, it's got to go. This is my whole point, that marriage needs to be re-thought. Life should not be about coping. Life should not be about coming to terms. This is what marriage often offers.....constant sacrifice and coping. Women were at one time stuck, and forced to cope. There were no options for a woman who was beaten. Now, thankfully there are, she can leave, without question. The monogamy part of the question is one which I think needs to be revisited however. This is one of the main reason why couples split up. If however we were to have different allowances and expectations regarding sex, many would avoid the ravages of jealousy and accept that that is nature.

With regards to all of the Monogamous birds that were mentioned, this is pure myth. Genetic testing has confirmed that many of our feathered friends are much like humans. Forming quasi momogamous relationships while fooling around behind their partners back. As is the case with many humans, birs, and other animals, the father is helping to care for offspring he thinks is his, but through genetic testing we know they belong to another man.

I still highly disagree with you. No one has to make repairs I guess. I think those who cannot or will not make repairs are those who cannot or will not make a committment. Had my husband ever cheated on me, I would be repulsed by him. My son was married for 15 years when his wife said she was leaving. It wasn't until she had gone that he found out she had been cheating for over a year! He is repulsed by her. I don't give a tinker's damn whether or not the birds or any other animals cheat or stay true. I care about my life. Friendships are the same to me. If you are really my friend, I'll defend you to the end. Turn on me and you're gone. Forever.
You come across to me as someone who wants validation that it's alright to be a cheat. It's not.

 

[talloola]

With regards to having the stomach to make the needed repairs in a marriage, who's to say that we should have to make repairs in the first place? A couple here and there is one thing, but if your car is a lemon, it's got to go. This is my whole point, that marriage needs to be re-thought. Life should not be about coping. Life should not be about coming to terms. This is what marriage often offers.....constant sacrifice and coping. Women were at one time stuck, and forced to cope. There were no options for a woman who was beaten. Now, thankfully there are, she can leave, without question. The monogamy part of the question is one which I think needs to be revisited however. This is one of the main reason why couples split up. If however we were to have different allowances and expectations regarding sex, many would avoid the ravages of jealousy and accept that that is nature.

With regards to all of the Monogamous birds that were mentioned, this is pure myth. Genetic testing has confirmed that many of our feathered friends are much like humans. Forming quasi momogamous relationships while fooling around behind their partners back. As is the case with many humans, birs, and other animals, the father is helping to care for offspring he thinks is his, but through genetic testing we know they belong to another man.

anyone who expects a marriage to be perfect is missing something upstairs. Nothing is perfect when humans
are involved, and it's also 'not' coping, that is assuming it's mostly bad, and the couple is always having
to makes repairs, not so, at least in my case, others will have to speak for themselves.
Why did we get married in the first place, not because we had to, no baby on the way, as that is a very poor
reason for marrying, the wrong reason for deciding to marry.
We married because we loved each other, we didn't want anyone else, we wanted to build a house, and spend
the rest of our lives together, we wanted to have a family, the bond was strong, and became stronger as the
years went by. We had bumpy spots along the way, but nothing that couldn't be ironed out, as we weren't
the type to have individually serious problems which caused the marriage to be tested much at all. We
didn't want to leave each other, no one outside of our marriage could come between us, and we didn't want
to deceive one another.
These are the things we 'wanted'. Neither one of us spent anytime wishing we had something different.

Those are the ingredients that will keep a marriage solid and build it into something grand, we cherish
and care for each other, ITS NOT ABOUT COPING., it's about living.

 

[Cliffy]

We live in a disposable society - diapers, paper plates, Styrofoam cups, cars, jobs.... you name it. How do we expect our relationships to be different. Talloola and VanIsle are from a generation where marriage was a commitment. Today it is about how much loot teh couple can accumulate at the party. In the old days, people expected to work hard for everything, including their relationships. Today, if it doesn't turn on immediately, we become impatient and chuck it. It's all about me, me, and me. Like I have said before, every time I here someone announce their marriage I know somewhere there is a lawyer having a wet dream.