How best to raise my wages?

[Machjo]

Let's say I'm earning 25$ per hour. What can the government do to raise my wages? Or, is that even a legitimate question? Let's say I have a choice between a salary cut of 1% with a likelihood of a 1% rate of deflation over the next year, and a 1% increase in my salary with a likelihood of 2% inflation over the next year? If you do the math, taking the salary cut would be preferable. So perhaps a more appropriate question would be not how the government can increase my wages, but rather how it can increase my real wages after inflation.

Now, among the options presented have include:

1. raising the minimum wage,
2. introducing co-determination legislation, and
3. providing me with further education.

I'll look at the pros and cons of this on all fronts.

1. Raising the minimum wage:


Now I live in a city with a number of companies hiring people with my skills. As a result, employers do need to offer a fair wage to retain us. And so I doubt (though of course I could be wrong) that my employer is paying me below the equilibrium rate (the rate beyond which he'd not be willing to keep me). So now, what are the possibilities for a minimum wage increase? If the minimum wage rises to still below my salary, then it's totally pointless. If it rises to above my salary, but still below equilibrium, I get a raise and get to keep my job, but I'm still not getting a fair wage. If it rises to above equilibrium, I lose my job. So, clearly a minimum wage increase does not guarantee a fair wage and, at worse, could legislate me out of a job.

2. Introducing co-determination legislation:


Suddenly, I'm in a better position to negotiate a fair wage for myself. If indeed I'm worth more than I'm now being paid, I have the power to negotiate a fairer wage without any need for minimum wage legislation. I might even be able to negotiate a higher wage than minimum wage legislation would have given me, since i could then negotiate a fair wage, not just a legally mandated minimum wage. On the other hand, supposing that I am being paid a fair wage already, and that any increase beyond that is just unsustainable for the company, then I can negotiate a fair wage, which might be lower than the legally mandated minimum wage, but at least it's still a fair wage and won't legislate me out of work. In that sense, it is superior to a minimum wage on two fronts:

a. If I'm earning less than I'm worth, I could possibly negotiate something even higher than a minimum wage could give me, yet.

b. I'm I'm already paid what I'm worth, I can just keep that salary instead of being legislated out of work. I can even negotiate a temporary salary cut if needs be in hard times to save my job, which a minimum wage would not permit if it's placed higher than the salary cut I intend to negotiate.

3. Providing me with further education:

If I go to the government, and it gives me a school voucher to cover my education, room and board for a year, would that increase my salary by much? Maybe, but probably not by much. Let's say an extra year of education helps me raise my salary to 30$ a year. Compare that to an unemployed person not only earning 0$ a year, but even being supported by the government. If the government should give him that voucher instead, after a year he might be able to get a 10$ an hour job. That is twice the salary increase I'd get (25 to 30 for me, only 5$; yet 0 to 10 for him plus no longer being dependent on the government. So that's at least a 10$ increase).

So while such a school voucher might increase my salary, it would be far wiser for the government to give that voucher to the unemployed, underemployed, or those earning below a certain income who'd be wiling to quit that job to take the voucher for a year instead.

So in conclusion, a minimum wage might increase my salary, or it could legislate me out of work. A co-determination law would give me the power to negotiate my own salary, and so possibly benefit me even more than a minimum wage law, but certainly not risk putting me out of work since I can always negotiate downward if necessary, which would still be preferable to being unemployed. Education goes along a sliding scale:the less educated the worker is, or the less income he earns, the more the greater the dividends of the school voucher; and the more education he has, or the higher is salary already, the less the dividends will be.

This, by the way, would apply equally to lower income groups too. A minimum wage could be useless if too low, legislate him out of work if too high, and still not guarantee a fair wage if higher than the current wage but still below what he really deserves, thus benefiting him only minimally. Co-determination laws could allow him to negotiate a fair wage possibly even higher than the proposed minimum wage, or allow him to at least negotiate a fair wage even if lower than the proposed minimum wage so as to save his job. After all, a low wage is still better than nothing.

And education vouchers could be provided to those earning less than a government-recommended minimum wage (not to be confused with an obligatory one) and who'd be willing to quit their jobs and go to school for a year to upgrade their skills.

In the end, I'd say options two and three would be the way to go to truly help the poor without risking legislating them out of work.

 

[JLM]

I think the first thing would be to go to the boss and find out, if there is anything more he would like out of you for more money. Find out if he's willing to pay you 25% of all the extra business you can bring his way- bet he would go for it. Take a hard look (not you personally) at your performance on the job. Are you the guy who arrives 30 seconds before starting time and are already heading for the door 30 seconds before quitting time. That's two things right there that really piss bosses off. Do you take the allotted time for lunch or do you stretch it a bit? Are you flexible with your coffee breaks or do you quit something two minutes before it's finished to be on time for coffee break? I worked for a boss one time, I didn't screw him around and was always at work 10 minutes early but many were the time when something came up that he just told me to take the time to deal with it and come back when I was able and he never docked me one minute for it. But I've also seen guys coming into work 30 seconds late 3 days in a row, and he wasn't too pleasant to them.

 

[Machjo]

I think the first thing would be to go to the boss and find out, if there is anything more he would like out of you for more money. Find out if he's willing to pay you 25% of all the extra business you can bring his way- bet he would go for it. Take a hard look (not you personally) at your performance on the job. Are you the guy who arrives 30 seconds before starting time and are already heading for the door 30 seconds before quitting time. That's two things right there that really piss bosses off. Do you take the allotted time for lunch or do you stretch it a bit? Are you flexible with your coffee breaks or do you quit something two minutes before it's finished to be on time for coffee break? I worked for a boss one time, I didn't screw him around and was always at work 10 minutes early but many were the time when something came up that he just told me to take the time to deal with it and come back when I was able and he never docked me one minute for it. But I've also seen guys coming into work 30 seconds late 3 days in a row, and he wasn't too pleasant to them.

Good points. In my case personally, as for government intervention, the government would have to raise the minimum wage considerably, wreaking havoc in the economy before it would affect my wages. As for co-determination laws, I doubt they'd benefit me much if at all. I have a pretty good relationship with my boss already. However, I could see such laws being beneficial to protect against unscrupulous employers in smaller towns that might have a monopoly on jobs, or who discriminate based on race, etc. And such a law, while it might not benefit me, it certainly would not hurt me, and could benefit others none-the-less.

As for school vouchers, again, they probably would not help to raise my income by much, though they probably could help someone with less education, skills, experience, income, etc.

But overall, I do agree with you that the best the government can do is create the necessary environment for success. Beyond that, the worker himself does have to carry at least half of the burden. We can't help someone who won't help himself.:lol:

 

[Machjo]

And just another point, JLM. In some cases, especially if we're dealing with someone who, for whatever reason, never learnt a proper work ethic, school could be an opportunity for him to learn it. One possibility might be to require all schools participating in the voucher programme to teach not only the hard and technical skills of the trade or profession in question, but the soft skills of personal responsibility, teamwork, etc. alongside it. Of course I'm not suggesting that the teacher be condescending and treat the students like fools, but also that he not assume that they know proper work culture. He should at least test them on it. If they seem to know it already and the problem really is just lack of skills, then move on to that training. But if after asking a few questions, the teacher notices that they really do have some attitudinal issues, or if he notices that they're always late for class, etc. then those students should definitely receive the proper education, making it clear to them that while we can help them, they have a responsibility to help themselves too. We can guide them, educate them, give them the necessary skills for success. But beyond that, it's up to them to pick themselves up, and we need to make that clear to them in a polite, respectful, tactful, yet firm way.

 

[El Barto]

Tattoo wage on your dick and watch porn

 

[Machjo]

Tattoo wage on your dick and watch porn

Has that ever worked for you?

 

[El Barto]

Has that ever worked for you?

I never got it tattoo'd ;-)

 

[Machjo]

I never got it tattoo'd ;-)

OK, so you watch porn and watch your wage increase as a result? Fascinating. How does that work?

 

[El Barto]

OK, so you watch porn and watch your wage increase as a result? Fascinating. How does that work?

hahahahaha I'm not going there hahahahaha
you're way too curious

 

[Machjo]

hahahahaha I'm not going there hahahahaha
you're way too curious

Hey, I won't deny I'm fascinated by the idea of watching your wage increase not just while you're watching porn, but as a result of your watching porn. What kind of business are you in?:lol:

 

[El Barto]

Hey, I won't deny I'm fascinated by the idea of watching your wage increase not just while you're watching porn, but as a result of your watching porn. What kind of business are you in?:lol:

HAHAHAHAHAHA I'm intears here hahahahahaha

 

[Machjo]

HAHAHAHAHAHA I'm intears here hahahahahaha

That must be a truly unique business if you've managed to get someone to pay you to watch porn.:lol:

Cleaver negotiator I tell ya. Couldn't you have applied that talent to some other business?

I'm telling you though, I'd be bored watching porn all day 7 days a week. So, is it just a part-time job or full-time?

 

[Machjo]

Ah, I think I get it. You're a film editor aren't you. I think I've solved the riddle.

 

[El Barto]

wow you're like a wilnot hahahaha

 

[Machjo]

wow you're like a wilnot hahahaha

I don't want to know what kind of challenges you face during and after your bowel movements. Please keep that kind of stuff to yourself.

 

[El Barto]

I don't want to know what kind of challenges you face during and after your bowel movements. Please keep that kind of stuff to yourself.

Rotflmao

 

[taxslave]

And just another point, JLM. In some cases, especially if we're dealing with someone who, for whatever reason, never learnt a proper work ethic, school could be an opportunity for him to learn it. One possibility might be to require all schools participating in the voucher programme to teach not only the hard and technical skills of the trade or profession in question, but the soft skills of personal responsibility, teamwork, etc. alongside it. Of course I'm not suggesting that the teacher be condescending and treat the students like fools, but also that he not assume that they know proper work culture. He should at least test them on it. If they seem to know it already and the problem really is just lack of skills, then move on to that training. But if after asking a few questions, the teacher notices that they really do have some attitudinal issues, or if he notices that they're always late for class, etc. then those students should definitely receive the proper education, making it clear to them that while we can help them, they have a responsibility to help themselves too. We can guide them, educate them, give them the necessary skills for success. But beyond that, it's up to them to pick themselves up, and we need to make that clear to them in a polite, respectful, tactful, yet firm way.

I had interpersonal skills courses as part of my apprenticeship in the late 70's.
There is a lot that should be learned at home and perhaps that is the problem. Kids are doing what their parents do.

 

[JLM]

I had interpersonal skills courses as part of my apprenticeship in the late 70's.
There is a lot that should be learned at home and perhaps that is the problem. Kids are doing what their parents do.

Bingo- like realizing your job is your most important asset besides your health and family, a simple concept like treating your boss as you like to be treated. Most people are human and if the boss is happy he will generally go out of his way for you. There are a few who want to rip people off, with them you get out of them what you can and then start putting out resumes and let him know you are doing it. He'll do one of two things (if you are good), start rewarding you or get pissed off at you, but he won't fire you because if you're good you're his meal ticket.

 

[Machjo]

I had interpersonal skills courses as part of my apprenticeship in the late 70's.
There is a lot that should be learned at home and perhaps that is the problem. Kids are doing what their parents do.

I agree. But if the parents don't teach them, who will. Unlike animals, humans have few instincts. Most of what we can do, we were taught to do.

I remember when I was in the military, a trainer was literally telling us how to wash, to not forget cracks and crevasses and such. We started laughing that this, so the instructor interrupted us and told a story of one soldier who'd gone to MIR for an itch under his scrotum, only to find out there was a buildup of years of soap scum under it. If he'd never been taught by his mother how to wash himself, do we not as a society have an obligation to so as to ensure he can lead a decent life?

I remember a case of a kid in the neighbourhood who was shunned by other parents. They'd tell their kids to stay away from that kid and his family. Surprisingly enough, my parents did no such thing. In fact, they'd even invited the kid to our house now and then, and when he'd misbehave, they'd tell him just as they'd tell me. In short, they recognized that if his parents won't educate him, for the good of society, someone ought to. All the other parents were doing was trying to distance their kids from him, teaching them to stay clear of his type. I don't know what came of hm as an adult, but I can see two possibilities. Either he'd learnt something from my parents, a teacher, or another parent, or that his parents eventually smartened up before i was too late, or he ended up down and out in society, with the other kids taught to stay clear of his type, now adults themselves, just teaching their kids to also stay clear of his type.

Yes, it is the parents' responsibility to teach their children. But should the parents fail in their obligations, then for the good of society, the community needs to raise him. As the African proverb goes, it takes a village to raise a child.

If we conclude that the responsibility for raising a child rests solely with the parents and that we have no obligation at all towards that child, then we also forfeit the right to judge that child as an adult when he fails to have received the moral and spiritual education needed to succeed in life.

In the end, we all have a responsibility to children, and when parents fail to educate their kids, then we must take on that responsibility. Let's not assume all parents are like our own.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Let's say I'm earning 25$ per hour. What can the government do to raise my wages?

$25 an hour is a pretty good wage, over $50,000 a year if you work a 40 hour week. Why should the government do anything at all to raise your wages? You want more, you need a promotion to a higher paying job, and that's up to you.