Ignatieff Flips180 to bless Israeli Apartheid

[darkbeaver]

http://yayacanada.blogspot.com/

 

[Johnnny]

I dont understand this israeli apartheid week thing, i ask if its to bring attention the difficulties Palestinians go through in the Gaza strip, and then people say Israel is the victim, then people say palistinians are the victim, whose the victims, cause everyone seems to have a different opinion

 

[Francis2004]

Gotta love half articles..

 

[Francis2004]

Two years ago, an American friend took me on a helicopter ride from Jerusalem to the Golan Heights over the Palestinian West Bank. He wanted to show me how vulnerable Israel was, how the Arabs only had to cross 11km of land to reach the sea and throw the Israelis into it. I got this message but I also came away with another one. When I looked down at the West Bank, at the settlements like Crusader forts occupying the high ground, at the Israeli security cordon along the Jordan river closing off the Palestinian lands from Jordan, I knew I was not looking down at a state or the beginnings of one, but at a Bantustan, one of those pseudo-states created in the dying years of apartheid to keep the African population under control.

That was when I understood that for all their talk about a two-state solution, both sides never inhabited the same universe of discourse about what it actually meant. It is not just that both sides failed to make peace, but that peace never meant the same thing.

Given who Arafat was and is, it required extraordinary vision by Israelis to understand that their security depended on having a strong neighbour in Palestine, not a weak one. The Israelis failed to realise that they needed a Palestinian Authority capable of providing enough services for its population to keep them from wanting to kill Israelis, and enough military and police capability to stop them if they tried. The Palestinians equally failed to understand that a good neighbour is a strong one. Many wanted a state of their own, to weaken Israel and prepare the final conquest of Tel Aviv.

Both sides have an equal share of blame in the slow collapse of the two-state solution. The Palestinian leadership degenerated into a venal tyranny, holding back an increasingly frustrated Palestinian civil society. The Palestinian Authority also failed because Israel never allowed it to become a state. When authorities cannot become competent states, when they cannot meet the needs of their people, they can only survive by playing to the longing of their populations to counter humiliation with acts of suicidal revenge. Had Israel realised that its own security depended on assisting in the establishment of a viable and, if necessary, ruthless Palestinian Authority it might now be secure. But making the Authority work was incompatible with the parallel policy of establishing settlements. Settlements cut Palestine into pieces, and sent a message to the population that they would never actually have a viable state of their own. Settlement policy acted against the Israeli state's vital security interests, and so Israel will have to choose between its own survival and the survival of the settlements.

Now that its troops have pillaged the offices of the Palestinian Authority, confiscated hard-drives, emptied safes, destroyed records, Israel has destroyed the one entity that might be able to control the territory it cannot. Repressing a population bent on national independence destroyed the French Fourth Republic in Algeria, and it will kill Israel. Absorbing the entire Palestinian population into Israel as equal citizens would be an excellent idea, but it is neither what Palestinians want, nor is it compatible with the continued existence of Jewish majority rule in the Jewish state. Expelling the Palestinians across the river into Jordan, another extremist option, will only start a regional, and possibly nuclear, war. Building a wall to keep an enraged people out, the current strategy of desperation, will reduce but not stop terror attacks.

If all this is true, Israel's only remaining guarantee of security is the recreation of a viable Palestinian state, with a monopoly on the means of violence, and the capacity to genuinely provide jobs and services for its people. In committing itself to speedy and complete withdrawal, it will have to commit to a strategic realignment based on the paradox that Israel as a state may have no longer term future unless Palestinians have their own.

All catastrophes are also moments of opportunity. Both sides have taught each other a lesson, and these lessons all point in the direction of peace. The Israeli action in the West Bank, brutal as it was, made it clear to suicide bombers that their own people will play a high price for the massacre of Israelis. Asymmetrical warfare does not give all the advantages to the weak. There remain some terrible advantages of the strong - the advantages of tanks, bulldozers, aircraft and missiles.

If the Palestinians have been taught a terrible lesson, the Israelis now have learned that the weak have weapons that can penetrate the defences of the strong. Israel knows it can defend itself against suicide bombers, but at a price no Israeli actually wants to pay, the death of public life and the casual freedom that makes existence worthwhile.

Both sides, moreover, are not just angry and embittered; they are also exhausted and traumatised. Both have suffered enough, and both have the bitter feeling that they are led by people who are incapable of making peace.

Eighteen months of extremism on both sides ought to return everyone to the realities: that loveless coexistence and separation within two secure states is the only political future that does not involve the indefinite sacrifice of the young people on both sides in a mutually reinforcing death cult.

But it is also equally clear that neither side is capable of making peace, or even sitting in the same room to discuss it. The Americans now face a historic choice. For 50 years, they have played the double game of both guaranteeing Israel's security and serving as honest broker in the region. This game can't go on. Either America gave a tacit green light to the Israeli operation, or it tried to restrain Sharon and failed. Either way, now that the Powell peace mission has failed, the American president looks ridiculous or devious, or both. He can't withdraw and he can't stand the embarrassment of continued diplomacy without result. The prestige and leadership of the United States, its vital national interests, are now on the line. Without a settlement in the Middle East, it has no possibility of support from Arab governments in its campaign against Islamist terrorists. Middle East peace has moved from a desirable option in American policy, to an utter necessity. The Saudi offer of eventual recognition for Israel in return for a state in Palestine is an opportunity that must not be lost. The only way to seize the opportunity is to impose a two-state solution now, before the extremists succeed in removing it from the realm of possibility forever. The Europeans have funded much of the Palestinian Authority. They must now help to rebuild it quickly. Otherwise there will be no authority in the West Bank at all.

The time for endless negotiation between the parties is past: it is time to say that all but those settlements right on the 1967 green line must go; that the right of return is incompatible with peace and security in the region and the right must be extinguished with a cash settlement; that the UN, with funding from Europe, will establish a transitional administration to help the Palestinian state back on its feet and then prepare the ground for new elections before exiting; and, most of all, the US must then commit its own troops, and those of willing allies, not to police a ceasefire, but to enforce the solution that provides security for both populations.

Imposing a peace of this amplitude on both parties, and committing the troops to back it up, would be the most dramatic exercise of presidential leadership since the Cuban missile crisis. Nothing less dramatic than this will prevent the Middle East from descending into an inferno.

· Michael Ignatieff is director of the Carr centre for human rights policy, Kennedy school of government, Harvard University

Why Bush must send in his troops | World news | The Guardian

OTTAWA - Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff made the following statement today:

“On university campuses across the country this week, Israeli Apartheid Week will once again attempt to demonize and undermine the legitimacy of the Jewish state. It is part of a global campaign of calls for divestment, boycotts and proclamations, and it should be condemned unequivocally and absolutely.

Apartheid is defined, in international law, as a crime against humanity. Israeli Apartheid Week is a deliberate attempt to portray the Jewish state as criminal.

The activities planned for the week will single out Jewish and Israeli students. They will be made to feel ostracized and even physically threatened in the very place where freedom should be paramount -- on a university campus.

Let us be clear: criticism of Israeli government policy is legitimate. Wholesale condemnation of the State of Israel and the Jewish people is not legitimate. Not now, not ever.

The very premise of Israeli Apartheid Week runs counter to our shared values of mutual respect and tolerance, regardless of nationality, race or creed. It is an attempt to heighten the tensions in our communities around the tragic conflict in the Middle East.

On behalf of the Liberal party of Canada and the Parliamentary caucus, I urge all Canadians to join with us in condemning Israeli Apartheid Week, and to reject, in principle, all forms of anti-Semitism, racism and intolerance, both within this country and around the world.”

Liberal Party of Canada » Statement by Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff regarding Israeli Apartheid Week

Now you have the full statements..

 

[gerryh]

now Francis, why did you go and do that for. Party pooper.

 

[Francis2004]

now Francis, why did you go and do that for. Party pooper.

Someone has to keep DB honest.. :lol::lol:

 

[earth_as_one]

I reject all forms of racism and intolerance, both within this country and around the world in including anti-Semitism. I completely support freedom of religion and oppose race/religious based discrimination. That's why I reject Israeli apartheid policies which are a crime against humanity and support a boycott of Israeli products.

I'll buy Israeli products and services again when Israel ends its apartheid policies.

Also I support encouraging Israeli and Palestinian immigration to Canada with conditions. These people must leave their problems behind and respect Canadian law.

I also support the establishment of a truth commission to investigate both side's illegal activities. Just like the South African truth commission, I also support granting amnesty to anyone who tells the truth before the truth commission. People who don't confess or are caught in lies should face justice.

 

[darkbeaver]

On behalf of the Liberal party of Canada and the Parliamentary caucus, I urge all Canadians to join with us in condemning Israeli Apartheid Week, and to reject, in principle, all forms of anti-Semitism, racism and intolerance, both within this country and around the world.”

Iggy supports apartheid and the zionist genocide machine. There you have it in print directly from the zionist puppet himself. Since when has criticism of murder theft and genocide ever been considered anything but laudable and when has it ever been discouraged to favour the perpetrators? When you tolerate genocide in one place you will eventually tolerate the same in your own lands at the behest of the same advisers. There is no way that anti-apartheid and anti-genocide can be equated with anti-semitism or racism but those who support Israel can certainly be accused of supporting war crimes.

“On university campuses across the country this week, Israeli Apartheid Week will once again attempt to demonize and undermine the legitimacy of the Jewish state. It is part of a global campaign of calls for divestment, boycotts and proclamations, and it should be condemned unequivocally and absolutely.

You will note Mr Ignatieffs support for the theocratic Israeli state, this is in direct contravention of the accepted rules of the preferred democratic state aspired to by all freedom loving people. It is also not conducive to Canadian democratic principals all of which, I am assured by my fellow posters, were the fruits of many bloody wars fought specifically to deter such political institutions as Nazism Communism and various other despotic systems of political abuse. What was applied to S Africa must be applied to Israel or there is no justice and all who support a special dispensation for Israel will share in the eventual penalties. If it is anti-semetic to be anti-genocide then it is only a matter of time before genocide becomes synonymous with Jewish Israel. This is the outcome that Mr Ignateiff is hatching like the stunned factory hen he obviously is.

 

[darkbeaver]

I reject all forms of racism and intolerance, both within this country and around the world in including anti-Semitism. I completely support freedom of religion and oppose race/religious based discrimination. That's why I reject Israeli apartheid policies which are a crime against humanity and support a boycott of Israeli products.

I'll buy Israeli products and services again when Israel ends its apartheid policies.

Also I support encouraging Israeli and Palestinian immigration to Canada with conditions. These people must leave their problems behind and respect Canadian law.

I also support the establishment of a truth commission to investigate both side's illegal activities. Just like the South African truth commission, I also support granting amnesty to anyone who tells the truth before the truth commission. People who don't confess or are caught in lies should face justice.

No dual citizenships whatever. Many problems can be surrendered with the passports.I certainly cannot support freedom for confessed mass murderers.

 

[darkbeaver]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17909


Mossad Comes to America: Death Squads by Invitation By Prof

 

[Francis2004]

You see I pick neither side as discussing this topic is fruitless..

Until there is Peace ( if ever ) in the lands, both sides will demonize anyone who choses or discusses any topic relating to any issue close to or relating to this topic whether you are for, against or just neutral and will block what the other has to say..

There is no rational discussion of this topic..

I feel sad for the Children ( both sides ) and people who will continue to die..

 

[darkbeaver]

The fourth largest military on earth regularly bombs a nation who has no military at all in addition to imposing a long and brutal blockade depriving the Palestinians of the essentials of life and liberty and you dare speak of rationality. There is certainly great rational discussion of this issue and has been for five decades all to no avail as the powers involved have no intention of enforcing or abiding by international law which obviously means nothing to them.
You have confused a lack of settlement of this issue with a perceived lack of rational discussion something which cannot prevail in an irrational event such as the slow genocide being conducted on the Palestinian people. To fail to act in the face of clear and present evil is the act of servility unbecoming to any humane person and an invitation for the same evil to visit your own community. Claiming equality of action and station for these two blatantly disproportionate sides is disingenuous to the point of collusion with war crimes. Ignorance is no excuse under law and no one attempting that defence will in the end be any more successful than the tried and convicted Nazis or Pol Pots murderous regime.

 

[earth_as_one]

No dual citizenships whatever. Many problems can be surrendered with the passports.I certainly cannot support freedom for confessed mass murderers.

I noticed that the quality of your posts have improved lately.... Also I welcome your challenge.

I understand your point. But consider the options and their probable results. What is more important? Punishing the guilty or ending injustice and oppression? I support trading amnesty for freedom. The people who ended South African Apartheid came to the same conclusion and it turned out to be a good solution.

 

[earth_as_one]

You see I pick neither side as discussing this topic is fruitless..

Until there is Peace ( if ever ) in the lands, both sides will demonize anyone who choses or discusses any topic relating to any issue close to or relating to this topic whether you are for, against or just neutral and will block what the other has to say..

There is no rational discussion of this topic..

I feel sad for the Children ( both sides ) and people who will continue to die..

Don't despair. The majority on both sides desire a fair and just peace. The people aren't the problem. Its their leaders.

 

[Colpy]

I reject all forms of racism and intolerance, both within this country and around the world in including anti-Semitism. I completely support freedom of religion and oppose race/religious based discrimination. That's why I reject Israeli apartheid policies which are a crime against humanity and support a boycott of Israeli products.

I'll buy Israeli products and services again when Israel ends its apartheid policies.

Also I support encouraging Israeli and Palestinian immigration to Canada with conditions. These people must leave their problems behind and respect Canadian law.

I also support the establishment of a truth commission to investigate both side's illegal activities. Just like the South African truth commission, I also support granting amnesty to anyone who tells the truth before the truth commission. People who don't confess or are caught in lies should face justice.

Baloney.

You engage in and support the worst kind of smear, a veiled incitement to violence. You do not limit yourself to the silly comparison of Israel to Apartheid South Africa, you go much further, indulging your hatred in the vicious comparison of Israel to Nazi Germany..............and refuse to acknowledge any argument made against you.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...0417-sixth-annual-israeli-apartheid-week.html

Answer that one.

 

[Liberalman]

I reject all forms of racism and intolerance, both within this country and around the world in including anti-Semitism. I completely support freedom of religion and oppose race/religious based discrimination. That's why I reject Israeli apartheid policies which are a crime against humanity and support a boycott of Israeli products.

I'll buy Israeli products and services again when Israel ends its apartheid policies.

Also I support encouraging Israeli and Palestinian immigration to Canada with conditions. These people must leave their problems behind and respect Canadian law.

I also support the establishment of a truth commission to investigate both side's illegal activities. Just like the South African truth commission, I also support granting amnesty to anyone who tells the truth before the truth commission. People who don't confess or are caught in lies should face justice.

You forgot to mention that you are a Jew hater EAO

 

[darkbeaver]

I noticed that the quality of your posts have improved lately.... Also I welcome your challenge.

I understand your point. But consider the options and their probable results. What is more important? Punishing the guilty or ending injustice and oppression? I support trading amnesty for freedom. The people who ended South African Apartheid came to the same conclusion and it turned out to be a good solution.

Ending injustice and oppression? This is the world without end EAO and as long as we exist here there will never be an end to injustice or oppression. Working and living against them are the greatest part of our journey. There is no substitute for the lessons of evil. And what value would mercy have if it were broadcast to the wind like chaff? Hardend hearts will spit in the face of mercy and deride the forgiving as weak and foolish. Many of these hard ones have lost all sense of the humane. There is only one answer to evil and that is relentless resistance and determined prosecution. Now is not the time for magnanimous forgivness for repeat offenders.

 

[darkbeaver]

You forgot to mention that you are a Jew hater EAO

The Jews I know cringe every time an idiot mouths those offenses. So common are they today as to be meaningless and powerless. And what will you do when they laugh?

 

[earth_as_one]

Baloney.

You engage in and support the worst kind of smear, a veiled incitement to violence. You do not limit yourself to the silly comparison of Israel to Apartheid South Africa, you go much further, indulging your hatred in the vicious comparison of Israel to Nazi Germany..............and refuse to acknowledge any argument made against you.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...0417-sixth-annual-israeli-apartheid-week.html

Answer that one.

I enjoy a good debate. We've shared many over the years Colpy. But I try to ignore personal attacks. Which kind of a post is this?

 

[gerryh]

I enjoy a good debate. We've shared many over the years Colpy. But I try to ignore personal attacks. Which kind of a post is this?

ROFLMFAO........ duck and dodge.