HydroQuebec/NBPower/Danny Williams chess game: Check!

[TenPenny]

So, Danny wants to develop the Lower Churchill hydro development. He tried to negotiate a power corridor through Quebec, but Quebec won't agree. So his alternative is to run an underwater cable to Nova Scotia, then power lines through NS to NB to Maine.

Now, Hydro Quebec is going to buy NBPower, which pretty much kills that plan.

Danny will have to build another underwater line from NS directly to Maine.

Interesting game of chess we've got going on.

 

[big]

So, Danny wants to develop the Lower Churchill hydro development. He tried to negotiate a power corridor through Quebec, but Quebec won't agree. So his alternative is to run an underwater cable to Nova Scotia, then power lines through NS to NB to Maine.

Now, Hydro Quebec is going to buy NBPower, which pretty much kills that plan.

Danny will have to build another underwater line from NS directly to Maine.

Interesting game of chess we've got going on.

Since Newfoundland and Labrador doesn't control the Ocean bed and may be tempted to envision stupid projects, this story looks to me more like a chicken game than a chess game.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

Another nail in the coffin of Atlantic Canada. Of course Williams is strongly opposed to the deal and rightly so because it puts NL at another disadvantage wrt to power transmission from that province. Premier Graham obviously wasn't dealing in good faith when he entered into talks with the rest of the Atlantic Provinces over the use of power transmission lines. Ce la vie. Bend over NB and get ready to be violated. Quebecs aim to split the country apart just got a little closer. Obviously no one has learned a thing from Churchill Falls.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

Since Newfoundland and Labrador doesn't control the Ocean bed and may be tempted to envision stupid projects, this story looks to me more like a chicken game than a chess game.

How about you learn to punctuate and use proper grammer/syntax before you cast your stones?

Chicken game? Wonderful use of my tax dollars by Quebec. First we give them $14B in transfer/equalization payments and they turn around and use that money to put Atlantic Canada's future at risk.

 

[TenPenny]

I haven't quite figured out what I think of this deal. On the one hand, I've never been a fan of privatized power utilites, but PEI and NS seem to be okay, so the ownership isn't really an issue.

The upside for Quebec is obviously having more control over the lines into the US.

The upside for NB is cutting our provincial debt by 40%; freezing residential power rates for 5 years; lowering industrial rates by 20 to 30%; cutting greenhouse gases by closing 3 thermal plants.

My understanding is that after the 5 year freeze, rate increases will be limited to cost of living.

 

[coldstream]

All Power utilities should be publicly owned.. not by an outside utility, especially one like Hydro Quebec with it history of gouging the Newfoundland government out of its right to fair profits from its resources. Hydro Quebec is also poorly administered in terms of its infrastructure and service.

All the the Public Utilities were set up in the early 20th or late 19th Century with the intent of providing ample power, through public ownership, and at long term cost. When we have gotten away from that, the electrical grid has fallen to pieces.

NB has sold out its birthright to a predatious outfit with no responsibility to the people of New Brunswick, over whom they have been given a complete monopoly to provide an essential utility.

Danny Williams is born sucker to believe them, and has done a great disservice to his constituency.

 

[TenPenny]

history of gouging the Newfoundland government out of its right to fair profits from its resources.

One could argue that two parties who sign a contract should expect to hold to the terms of that contract.

Lack of foresight on the part of one party doesn't make the contract invalid.

 

[big]

Wonderful use of my tax dollars by Quebec. First we give them $14B in transfer/equalization payments and they turn around and use that money to put Atlantic Canada's future at risk.

"my tax dollars" is a meaningless expression: it's not by chance that a royalty is both the face on the dollar and the name given to revenues generated from natural resources ownership.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

"my tax dollars" is a meaningless expression: it's not by chance that a royalty is both the face on the dollar and the name given to revenues generated from natural resources ownership.

Yeah, my tax dollars...your tax dollars. All of us send an exorbitant amount of cash each year to Quebec. Are you denying that or are you attempting to sidestep the issue again?

Speaking of royalties from natural resources, Quebec gets plenty from a resource in Churchill Falls that does not belong to them. In typical Quebec fashion and with the help of the federal government these royalties were negotiated by holding a loaded gun to Smallwood's head. Now we see a blatant attempt by Quebec to block any hydro development in the Atlantic provinces. Outrageous!

 

[mt_pockets1000]

One could argue that two parties who sign a contract should expect to hold to the terms of that contract.

Lack of foresight on the part of one party doesn't make the contract invalid.

I would agree with your argument if I thought the contract was signed in good faith. But I don't. There's a difference between lack of foresight and strong-arming.

 

[big]

Yeah, my tax dollars...your tax dollars. All of us send an exorbitant amount of cash each year to Quebec. Are you denying that or are you attempting to sidestep the issue again?

Speaking of royalties from natural resources, Quebec gets plenty from a resource in Churchill Falls that does not belong to them. In typical Quebec fashion and with the help of the federal government these royalties were negotiated by holding a loaded gun to Smallwood's head. Now we see a blatant attempt by Quebec to block any hydro development in the Atlantic provinces. Outrageous!

If you want to live free then stop being so proud to play the slave's part.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

You live in this country don't you? I am no more or less a slave than you are. We all have to work to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. At least the good upstanding citizens of our country do that, kings notwithstanding of course.

 

[big]

You live in this country don't you? I am no more or less a slave than you are. We all have to work to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. At least the good upstanding citizens of our country do that, kings notwithstanding of course.

Work only to kill your spared time, if you want to become a king like me.

 

[Colpy]

Well, I admit on gut reaction I don't like the idea of Quebec owning our power.....but if Danny Williams is all upset about it.....there must be something good in the plan.

 

[big]

Bottom line: if one doesn't like to be cornered, he should get out of his little corner.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

Don't let your hate for Danny cloud your eyes so that you miss the bigger picture. Williams stands up for his province. Premier Graham on the other hand just sold NB down the river.

 

[Tonington]

I read that this deal also might save some jobs. The pulp mill in Edmunston will see a 30% cut to their power bill through this deal. Some job security for 350 people in a very risky industry, though this may just stall the inevitable.

I think it's a great deal for NB. Writing off debt, a nice chunk of cash, lower power rates from a producer that has efficiency in spades compared to the NB generation...

Couldn't Newfoundland renegotiate a deal with the Lower Churchill with Quebec? Going the long way around to NE USA seems a bit hair-brained.

 

[TenPenny]

Don't let your hate for Danny cloud your eyes so that you miss the bigger picture. Williams stands up for his province. Premier Graham on the other hand just sold NB down the river.

What exactly makes you think that? I'm interested in what part of the deal you think is selling out NB?

 

[mt_pockets1000]

What exactly makes you think that? I'm interested in what part of the deal you think is selling out NB?

Graham campaigned on a promise not to sell NB Power and promptly reneged on that promise. Sell out.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

I read that this deal also might save some jobs. The pulp mill in Edmunston will see a 30% cut to their power bill through this deal. Some job security for 350 people in a very risky industry, though this may just stall the inevitable.

I think it's a great deal for NB. Writing off debt, a nice chunk of cash, lower power rates from a producer that has efficiency in spades compared to the NB generation...

Couldn't Newfoundland renegotiate a deal with the Lower Churchill with Quebec? Going the long way around to NE USA seems a bit hair-brained.

Yes, getting out from under that massive debt will be good for New Brunswick. But there goes the provinces ability to produce power and have a reliable means of transmitting that power. Same goes for the other provinces in the area. The NB people will pay dearly for this deal when the 5 years are up.

My understanding is Williams is in negotiations with Quebec to use their transmission lines. We know the deal will never come to pass. So what alternative does Williams have? It may sound hair-brained but certainly not impossible.