UAW, CAW Split, Was It Worth It?

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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Canadian Auto Workers set forth a chain of events that eventually led to the decimation of the auto industry in Canada when they split from the United Auto Workers.

The CAW decided to organize in other industry sectors which too their full attention away from the union members that bear their name.

The higher ups in the union got so power hungry that they split from the union that helped them and they went on their own. Through the years they made mistakes and now the truck plant workers in the city of Oshawa are paying for those mistakes of many years ago.

The Government is now telling the union to make more concessions or all of General Motors will go south of the border.

On the news last night the truck plant workers came out of the plant for the last time and no one was talking about the CAW and no one was asking about the CAW.

Men and Women workers who built the best darn trucks and beat the quotas time after time.

These CAW members worked hard and proud and they paid their dues faithfully but in the end they lost.

If the CAW never split from the UAW people might still be working with no closures but CAW gambled and lost.

The retired worker has a dark cloud over then which is a good pension that will disappear.

The CAW might say that the ride was good and now it’s time to get off and look for something else.

That’s what unions always say when they make mistakes.

We have to remember the Goodyear plant in Toronto where there was a long strike where the owners said we can’t afford your demands, the union stood firm and they were still picketing when the equipment was shipped out of there.

We can’t forget the strike at one of the steel plants in Hamilton Ontario where the operators told the union that they demands were too high, the union stood firm and the steel plant closed, that night at a press conference the union boss was crying like a baby because he never decided to check conditions of the times.

When a plant closes down it’s the union that has to take the blame.

CAW is still collecting union dues from their other industries they represent so what is the union doing about autoworkers that lost their jobs because of the CAW’s incompetence? Nothing because they feel they don’t owe them anything.
 
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YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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UAW or CAW what in the Hell is the difference!?

When you have your head in the clouds with unreasonably high expectations and demands, you are well deserving of a total let down.

When you strike yourself out of a job, blame yourself.

When you think that being an automaton on an assembly line is worth as much as a teacher, policeman or a fire fighter, don't blame anyone else when you have to wake up to reality.

"We have to remember the Goodyear plant in Toronto where there was a long strike where the owners said we can’t afford your demands, the union stood firm and they were still picketing when the equipment was shipped out of there."

The plant you are talking about with an astonishing degree of misinformation was in NEW Toronto. No equipment was shipped to another plant, because it all was obsolete. (BTW, have you seen the lovely condominiums built of the former Goodyear site?)

But Goodyear opened another plant in Napanee, Ontario, TOTALLY Union free, producing the world's best tires, with a degree of productivity unknown in any UNION environment.

Just as the cars/truck are produced at Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Nissan, Kia, etc., plants with no UNIONS.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.
UAW or CAW what in the Hell is the difference!?

When you have your head in the clouds with unreasonably high expectations and demands, you are well deserving of a total let down.

When you strike yourself out of a job, blame yourself.

When you think that being an automaton on an assembly line is worth as much as a teacher, policeman or a fire fighter, don't blame anyone else when you have to wake up to reality.

"We have to remember the Goodyear plant in Toronto where there was a long strike where the owners said we can’t afford your demands, the union stood firm and they were still picketing when the equipment was shipped out of there."

The plant you are talking about with an astonishing degree of misinformation was in NEW Toronto. No equipment was shipped to another plant, because it all was obsolete. (BTW, have you seen the lovely condominiums built of the former Goodyear site?)

But Goodyear opened another plant in Napanee, Ontario, TOTALLY Union free, producing the world's best tires, with a degree of productivity unknown in any UNION environment.

Just as the cars/truck are produced at Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Nissan, Kia, etc., plants with no UNIONS.

And here I always thought you were a staunch Union advocte, Y.J. :lol:
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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Winnipeg
"Yukon, you realize that not all CAW members are assembly line monkey's?"

Maybe not, DurkaDurka, but, unfortunately they are the ones who carry the weight. And/or or the ones that employ the baseball bats on your shin if you disagree.
 

justfred

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2004
227
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Drumheller
Did anyone ever notice that the unions can sure cry a lot when things do not go their way. As I type I see they are still negotiating with GM on wages, benefits and pensions. Why not ask the Union to buy GM out. Show the world and US/Canadian governments that they can run a business. Maybe the workers are worth $100., $200., $500. Per hour, just name the wage and just think of the union dues the union could collect. Man-o-man 2% of $500 per hour is more than 2% of $30.
Having said that, I guess the unions know they would have a hard time running a pay toilet at a rock concert and still make money. Has anyone else noticed that the leaders of unions and pimps are similar. Both have an incurable thirst for money. Money is power to them and also they are self employed, the more people they have working for them, the more they can take home each day. Albeit, is the real reason the union is struggling and complaining is because the union boss has to take a pay cut?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Did anyone ever notice that the unions can sure cry a lot when things do not go their way. As I type I see they are still negotiating with GM on wages, benefits and pensions. Why not ask the Union to buy GM out. Show the world and US/Canadian governments that they can run a business. Maybe the workers are worth $100., $200., $500. Per hour, just name the wage and just think of the union dues the union could collect. Man-o-man 2% of $500 per hour is more than 2% of $30.
Having said that, I guess the unions know they would have a hard time running a pay toilet at a rock concert and still make money. Has anyone else noticed that the leaders of unions and pimps are similar. Both have an incurable thirst for money. Money is power to them and also they are self employed, the more people they have working for them, the more they can take home each day. Albeit, is the real reason the union is struggling and complaining is because the union boss has to take a pay cut?

This is one of the most sensible posts I've seen for awhile. The bottom line is the average Canadian doesn't care if Chev. Buick etc. go extinct, we'll survive, lots of better Hondas and Toyotas available out there and I'm sure with a little perserverence we can learn to drive them. And then we can quit worrying about having to find a vehicle that was built at 10:35 A.M. Wednesdays. I just hope Harper sticks to his guns, actually if I was him I'd go one step further and say no bailout until the company gets rid of ALL encumbrances.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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I guess the unions know they would have a hard time running a pay toilet at a rock concert and still make money.

Probably because rocker smoke pot. The smart union man would take his pay toilet to a country concert where they are mostly beer drinkers and supplement his earnings by selling snoose.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Vancouver Island
We are having the same problem with the sawmills and pulp mills in B.C. The unions are in a state of denial. Mills close because they cannot make money and yet the workers go on strike for a raise. Much the same as the auto plants, it is not so much the hourly rate but rather bennies and excessive paid holidays for an old workforce coupled with contract wording that makes technological changes impossible. Owners can no longer make financial decisions, just sign paycheques. One pulp mill that went down when its US parent went titters has been bought by the employees, union and some suppliers and is now back to work with a significantly smaller workforce and scaled back bennies but at least they are working even if they are not making any money.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
We are having the same problem with the sawmills and pulp mills in B.C. The unions are in a state of denial. Mills close because they cannot make money and yet the workers go on strike for a raise. Much the same as the auto plants, it is not so much the hourly rate but rather bennies and excessive paid holidays for an old workforce coupled with contract wording that makes technological changes impossible. Owners can no longer make financial decisions, just sign paycheques. One pulp mill that went down when its US parent went titters has been bought by the employees, union and some suppliers and is now back to work with a significantly smaller workforce and scaled back bennies but at least they are working even if they are not making any money.

Unions would do well to have some of their executive have a degree in accounting or at least be cognizant of grade 4 math.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Did anyone ever notice that the unions can sure cry a lot when things do not go their way. As I type I see they are still negotiating with GM on wages, benefits and pensions. Why not ask the Union to buy GM out. Show the world and US/Canadian governments that they can run a business. Maybe the workers are worth $100., $200., $500. Per hour, just name the wage and just think of the union dues the union could collect. Man-o-man 2% of $500 per hour is more than 2% of $30.
Having said that, I guess the unions know they would have a hard time running a pay toilet at a rock concert and still make money. Has anyone else noticed that the leaders of unions and pimps are similar. Both have an incurable thirst for money. Money is power to them and also they are self employed, the more people they have working for them, the more they can take home each day. Albeit, is the real reason the union is struggling and complaining is because the union boss has to take a pay cut?

You would work for less every week wouldn't you because you reflect perfectly the retarded thinking that has resulted in less take home pay now then in 1972. If workers don't make money they don't spend money and it leaves our communities in Brinks trucks which results in further erosions of the standard of living. There is nothing lower or dumber than a stinking scab. It'll be a totally closed shop someday, you better accept it now cuz it'll just get harder if you wait.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
You would work for less every week wouldn't you because you reflect perfectly the retarded thinking that has resulted in less take home pay now then in 1972. If workers don't make money they don't spend money and it leaves our communities in Brinks trucks which results in further erosions of the standard of living. There is nothing lower or dumber than a stinking scab. It'll be a totally closed shop someday, you better accept it now cuz it'll just get harder if you wait.

Justfred has it RIGHT, you have it dead WRONG. Anybody who calls anyone else a "scab" for their beliefs, is pretty low in the gutter in my view. And hey, I do have use for Unions- they have a role to play in ensuring safety on the worksite- they don't have a role in telling company owners how to run their business.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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You would work for less every week wouldn't you because you reflect perfectly the retarded thinking that has resulted in less take home pay now then in 1972.


But the corporate entity should roll the dice on their investor's money for a loss? I've got a newsflash for ya, these companies do not exist for the sole purpose of providing jobs to anyone, let alone unions.



If workers don't make money they don't spend money and it leaves our communities in Brinks trucks which results in further erosions of the standard of living. There is nothing lower or dumber than a stinking scab. It'll be a totally closed shop someday, you better accept it now cuz it'll just get harder if you wait.


... And when the company goes titters, no one will will be spending any money anywhere.

The only way that your closed-shop fantasy will ever transpire is when the unions crack open their wallets and run the business themselves.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
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Winnipeg
If there had ever been or if there would be now, a mutual respect between employers and employees, unions would have never been needed, and they would not be needed now.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
But the corporate entity should roll the dice on their investor's money for a loss? I've got a newsflash for ya, these companies do not exist for the sole purpose of providing jobs to anyone, let alone unions.

... And when the company goes titters, no one will will be spending any money anywhere.

The only way that your closed-shop fantasy will ever transpire is when the unions crack open their wallets and run the business themselves.


I'v got a scoop for you too. I know why and how corporations exist. Now if as it seems that you believe they exist ouside the social framework you are mistaken.
You seem to believe that markets and demand exist exclusivly through the corporate matrix. They do not, any community is capable of that social function. The wealth to form and operate corporations was in totality derived from labour not the other way arround. Labour is the only source of wealth. Someday soon your guns and laws won't help you anymore. We will do more than open wallets Captain, we will eliminate them, down the hole they'll follow the capitalist pigs.
You have a lot of misplaced faith in a system in terminal crisis right before your eyes.
Running the businesses ourselves will be easy all we do is take a page from the capitalists pig bible and destroy the competition, right down to the roots. ;-)