Can Ignatieff distance himself from his past?

Machjo

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I was reading up on Ignatieff in Wikipedia:

Michael Ignatieff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As it turns out, he supported the Iraq War too, but has sinse distanced himself from it. Here's the quote from Wikipedia:

[edit] International affairs

Ignatieff has written extensively on international development, peacekeeping and the international responsibilities of Western nations. Critical of the limited-risk approach practiced by NATO in conflicts like the Kosovo War and the Rwandan Genocide, he says that there should be more active involvement and larger scale deployment of land forces by Western nations in future conflicts in the developing world. Ignatieff attempts to distinguish his approach from Neo-conservativism because the motives of the foreign engagement he advocates are essentially altruistic rather than selfserving.[15]
In this vein, Ignatieff was a prominent supporter of the 2003 Invasion of Iraq.[16] Ignatieff says that the United States established "an empire lite, a global hegemony whose grace notes are free markets, human rights and democracy, enforced by the most awesome military power the world has ever known." The burden of that empire, he says, obliged the United States to expend itself unseating Iraqi president Saddam Hussein in the interests of international security and human rights. Ignatieff initially accepted the position of the George W. Bush administration: that containment through sanctions and threats would not prevent Hussein from selling weapons of mass destruction to international terrorists. Ignatieff believed that those weapons were still being developed in Iraq.[17] Moreover, according to Ignatieff, "what Saddam Hussein had done to the Kurds and the Shia" in Iraq was sufficient justification for the invasion.[18][19]
In the years following the invasion, Ignatieff reiterated his support for the war, if not the method in which it was conducted. "I supported an administration whose intentions I didn't trust," he averred, "believing that the consequences would repay the gamble. Now I realize that intentions do shape consequences."[16] He eventually recanted his support for the war entirely. In a 2007 New York Times Magazine article, he wrote: "The unfolding catastrophe in Iraq has condemned the political judgment of a president, but it has also condemned the judgment of many others, myself included, who as commentators supported the invasion." Ignatieff partly interpreted what he now saw as his particular errors of judgment, by presenting them as typical of academics and intellectuals in general, whom he characterised as "generalizing and interpreting particular facts as instances of some big idea". In politics, by contrast, "Specifics matter more than generalities".[20]
On June 3, 2008, Michael Ignatieff voted to implement a program which would “allow conscientious objectors…to a war not sanctioned by the United Nations…to…remain in Canada…”[21][22][23]
Ignatieff has also spoken on the issue of Canadian participation in the North American Missile Defence Shield. In "Virtual War," Ignatieff refers to the likelihood of America developing a MDS to protect the United States. Nowhere did Ignatieff voice support for Canadian participation in such a scheme. [24] Further, in October 2006, Ignatieff indicated that he personally would not support ballistic missile defence nor the weaponization of space.[25]

It would seem that Ignatieff's view of the Iraq War was that he supported the war in spite of disagreeing with the intentions. This view is slightly different from the one I'd had from the beginning. I supported the War on the grounds that Hussain had violated human rights, but on condition that it have international support, recognizing that if US intentions should become suspect, the US would not get international co-operation, as has been the case. Ignatieff's view seems to have changed along the same lines, recognizing that intentions, or even perceived intentions, are just as important as the act itself in determining its chances of success.

Personally, I recognize that a person's views do change, but also like proof that they have indeed changed and that the same error in judgement is not likely to be repeated again. Do you think Ignatieff's history on this might come back to haunt him next election?
 

Machjo

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This is another one that might come to haunt him, the idea of 'Lesser evils', giving an impression of moral compromise:

Ignatieff has argued that Western democracies may have to resort to "lesser evils" like indefinite detention of suspects, coercive interrogations,[26] targeted assassinations, and pre-emptive wars in order to combat the greater evil of terrorism.[27] He states that as a result, societies should strengthen their democratic institutions to keep these necessary evils from becoming as offensive to freedom and democracy as the threats they are meant to prevent.[28] The 'Lesser Evil' approach has been criticized by some prominent human rights advocates, like Conor Gearty, for incorporating a problematic form of moral language that can be used to legitimize forms of torture.[29] But other human rights advocates, like Human Rights Watch's Kenneth Roth, have defended Ignatieff, saying his work attempts a difficult balance between competing values.[30] In the context of this "lesser evil" analysis, Ignatieff has discussed whether or not liberal democracies should employ coercive interrogation and torture. Ignatieff has adamantly maintained that he supports a complete ban on torture[31], which according to his 2004 Op-ed in the New York Times, did not include certain "forms of sleep deprivation that do not result in lasting harm to mental or physical health, together with disinformation and disorientation (like keeping prisoners in hoods)."[28]
 

darkbeaver

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Can Ignatieff distance himself from his past? History is revised on a dayly basis, you just lay your money down and the past changes magicaly. No matter that he committed the words to print, he was misinformed during the stint, all the data was not in. He's like the rest, already pressed, nicely dressed, at his best,lining his nest, gem of the west,imperial medals on his chest, woe unto us if he's our best, the Iggy wave is a bull**** crest, arrest arrest arrest:lol:
 

pegger

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I'd have more respect for him if he didn't. I'm tired of all politicans back tracking on everything.

Did Harper ever apologize for the "firewall around Alberta" statement? Or that Canada was a 3rd rate socialist European state of the worst kind (or something to that effect)? Does it matter now?
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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I have no problem with politicians changing their minds. It shows open mindedness...but only if they are changing their minds because the evidence dictates that their previous views were flawed. The real issue is not if they change their minds but why they changed their minds. I get the feeling from Iggy that this has more to do with following the crowd than any personal reevaluation. It seems to me that he will say whatever needs to be said, at any given moment, to be be popular. It's a great way to get elected but a pisspoor way to lead.
 

#juan

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Ignatieff is the most intelligent leader we've turned out since Trudeau. He is certainly respected in the U.S. by anyone who knows him and knows where Canada is. I would rather have Ignatieff over Harper any day.
 

#juan

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Ignatieff is the most intelligent leader we've turned out since Trudeau

That comment alone will kill Iggy's hopes.

I wonder if it is just chance that you have the word conservative written on your avatar. I don't think Ignatieff has any hopes for your vote. I may be a liberal at heart but I once voted for Mulroney. (in his first term) I wouldn't vote conservative again. Even a masochist has to stop punishing himself occasionally.
 

Socrates the Greek

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I wonder if it is just chance that you have the word conservative written on your avatar. I don't think Ignatieff has any hopes for your vote. I may be a liberal at heart but I once voted for Mulroney. (in his first term) I wouldn't vote conservative again. Even a masochist has to stop punishing himself occasionally.

Good one Juan, if I may ad to that, Conservativisem is the most tyrannical form of Government the voter will ever face. Conservativisem treats people like swines.
Mulroney is on record telling Peter Newman that "I STUFFED IT DOWN THEIR THROUGHTS" meaning various legislation that was not popular...
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Iggy will be elected because Harper represents the old bush guard in the minds of the electorate who salivates for an Obama like change. Iggy already does what the Zionists command, he makes fine inspiring photos and he can articulate quite well but if you listen to the words it's the standard Orwellian double spinspeak. He meant what he wrote, it was his ticket to the big time, he's been thoroughly groomed in Yankeeland by the bankers.
 

Socrates the Greek

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The Liberals are coming......................and this time Harper can’t hide behind the GG SKIRT.
 
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Colpy

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I wonder if it is just chance that you have the word conservative written on your avatar. I don't think Ignatieff has any hopes for your vote. I may be a liberal at heart but I once voted for Mulroney. (in his first term) I wouldn't vote conservative again. Even a masochist has to stop punishing himself occasionally.

Yeah, I voted for Mulrooney in 1984 as well. The only time.
 

Colpy

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Good one Juan, if I may ad to that, Conservativisem is the most tyrannical form of Government the voter will ever face. Conservativisem treats people like swines.
Mulroney is on record telling Peter Newman that "I STUFFED IT DOWN THEIR THROUGHTS" meaning various legislation that was not popular...

"Fuddle Duddle"

Many raised fingers.

"Those nobodies" (speaking of MPs)

The War Measures Act

or

APEC

Strangled protester

The use of the RCMP to persecute the President of the BDBC......because he refused to go along with a corrupt loan

Shawinigan Hoteliers

Sponsorship scandal

Mobsters in Cabinet

Those were not Conservative actions....they weren't even PC actions.

Think again.
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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"Fuddle Duddle"

Many raised fingers.

"Those nobodies" (speaking of MPs)

The War Measures Act

or

APEC

Strangled protester

The use of the RCMP to persecute the President of the BDBC......because he refused to go along with a corrupt loan

Shawinigan Hoteliers

Sponsorship scandal

Mobsters in Cabinet

Those were not Conservative actions....they weren't even PC actions.

Think again.


Good day Colpy, but the BROWN BAGS make all the rest look like nothing, not paying tax on bribe is a crime in Canada that was not a Liberal that took the undeclared cash in BROWN BAGS, it was a Conservative.
 

#juan

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"Fuddle Duddle"

Many raised fingers.
I remember only one raised middle finger and he was responding in kind to a jerk in the crowd.

"Those nobodies" (speaking of MPs)
He was referring to a bunch of noisy backbenchers.


The War Measures Act
What else should he have done? An MP had been killed and a British diplomat was kidnapped, a policeman was shot.

or

APEC


Strangled protester
I thought he should have slugged the moron.
 

Colpy

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Good day Colpy, but the BROWN BAGS make all the rest look like nothing, not paying tax on bribe is a crime in Canada that was not a Liberal that took the undeclared cash in BROWN BAGS, it was a Conservative.

Ah....the brown bags involved one man and $350,000

The Sponsorship Scandal included the Quebec caucus, and tens of millions of dollars........

Gimme a break
 

L Gilbert

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Gliberal habit - raise taxes, award friends with gobs of goodies, arrogantly proclaim what Canadians like, are, and want, develop programs that require them to raise money in order to balance budgets, etc. lol
Iggy gives me the creeps as much as Harpy and Lameton.