Obligatory Military service?
- Thread starter El Barto
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Yes, as Ironsides pointed out, freedom is neither free nor a guarantee in life.
People must be made aware that freedom costs. Not so much in modern times as it once did, as we've already had men and women pay the high toll. We as a society owe it to them to up hold their memory.
The pitiful state of our education system has left the bulk of the Canadian populace wallowing in a state of self pity. Unable to apply an identity to themselves. This foments bitter and silly posturing and finger pointing. Like spilled soup is a breeding ground for bacteria, so is a country with a fragmented view of their own history. One of the key factors in Military service is being tough the history of the unit as well as the countries history at war. And it's starkly contrasted when held to the sensational views of the media.
It's oft sterile and without feeling, for good reason.
Military service, obligatory or otherwise, is without a doubt a character building endeavor. One can never return to the child they were before enlisting. The regimentation, the discipline, the comradery and skills one obtains, is monumental.
But as in all, things, one must be applied for the education to be positive.
You will and only can you, get out of it what you put into it. The mindset of the general public is so bereft of any real knowledge, that at this point in our history, this would be a futile effort. The hew and cry would overshadow and disproportionately skew the view of the masses. To the evils of what the core of the idea would be.
The objective of such a service would not be and is not traditionally, if you view other nations that follow this practice, to build a standing Army within the populace. It is to qualify and attach responsibility and a sense of proprietary worth to the people. That they are not alone, that they are part of something far more important and far more valuable then just themselves.
Some will argue that this removes the unique and the value of individualism. I disagree. I believe it would strengthen and enhance ones ability to be an individual, by helping them focus and accept responsibility for their actions. For what the individual, knows and understand the value of the sacrifice of self. Their contribution, no matter how small has great value. It's almost socialist in nature.
EB, no matter what the direction this thread may take. Excellent thread and my friend. United we stand, departed we fall. See how that applies to thoughts I have just highlighted. Know that you and I are not separate, not alone. We are brothers, the sons of a common mother. No mater what political spectrum you and I may view things from. You and I both value what we have here, and seek only to make it better. Sadly, not everyone that resides within our Mom, think or act with that simple and common ideal.
Excellent point EB. Think of how much assistance would have been immediate, had the general populace had the adequate training to deal with a crisis instantly. SCB calls me her personal Mcgivor. Not because I;m a handsome little brute, :lol:, but because I can think on my feet, addapt, change and over come obstacles without hesitation. That is a skill I picked up all through my childhood, having grown up in our La belle provence, and service.
You are right, but we in Quebec seem to be the ones that will act up on it first.
That's not fringe EB, that's fact. But sadly shall be viewed as loonacy by many.
Thanks for getting my quotes from the other thread.
It is sad to say , me included that we are a society of a welfare mentality. We expect someone else to fix our problem yet we lay back and blame them whenit goes wrong or the price is to high to pay. We are losing our Canadian soveriegnty bit by bit. Soveriegnty is not just an affair of a country. It is a personal thing too. How can we expect the government to do it for us when we can't do it for ourselves.
I believe military service can help that. Not just as a fighting force but self diciplined too. In a sense giving something back to the country , not the government. Not being a burden to it but an able and ready hand to do your part.
Learning how to asses a problem or situation , how to divide it into simple task, how to think clearly . How to execute orders and how to delegate too. Not to mention some physical training , would help. Sound body and sound mind.
on a roll here , coffee's kicking in.
I think it would help on a personal level and on a social level. We are too lazy.
It is sad to say , me included that we are a society of a welfare mentality. We expect someone else to fix our problem yet we lay back and blame them whenit goes wrong or the price is to high to pay. We are losing our Canadian soveriegnty bit by bit. Soveriegnty is not just an affair of a country. It is a personal thing too. How can we expect the government to do it for us when we can't do it for ourselves.
I believe military service can help that. Not just as a fighting force but self diciplined too. In a sense giving something back to the country , not the government. Not being a burden to it but an able and ready hand to do your part.
Learning how to asses a problem or situation , how to divide it into simple task, how to think clearly . How to execute orders and how to delegate too. Not to mention some physical training , would help. Sound body and sound mind.
on a roll here , coffee's kicking in.
I think it would help on a personal level and on a social level. We are too lazy.
No problem...
Dear gawd yes!!! The fact that you see this may be the reason you understand my problem with weakness. I really hate to play devils advocate on the side of topic I'm on, but that fierce 'do it for myself' mentality is what has peprpuated that silent killer that has so plagued my later years EB, lol. Sometime sit can go to far.
That's the mindset I was referring to. People will always see the military as a tool of the Gov't. And the intellectual class have no idea what a tools is, let alone how useful they are.
This is so true EB, you know I retest for my First Aid and CPR bi-annually? Just for this very reason. I was once trained to kill (Along with save), but now I want to save only.
That's why I love ya EB.
Arm chair quarterbacks, usually are, lol.
Mandatory Military Training at a young age would be benificial for the countries population... For example it add's experiences to your job resume....
Just a few points:
1. Military training does not guarantee decent character building. When I was undergoing infantry training, I could see many recruits succumbing to pressure to drink copious quantities of alcohol, or to sleep around, neither of which are good habbits. Add to that that I'd seen at least one recruit go from fairly innocent to a foul-mouthed biggot within 9 months flat! Terms like nigger, squaw, long-haired greecy civvy, Chinook, Paki, etc. were common, even among some instructors. One recruit was planning on joining the Freemen after his contract. One of the instructors was a collector of Nazi paraphernalia (not necessarily a bad thing in its own right as a hisorical interest, but within the cultural environment I found myself in, it was highly suspicious), etc. And these or similar attitudes were mainstream in the platoon.
So by no means does it necessarily guarantee character development. In some cases, it could degrade character. And it got me into a whole lot of heat for raising my voice about it, even just a little. Perhaps my mistake or naivety at the time was to complain directly to the perpetrators about it. I don't know if the situation would have been different had I kept my mouth shut and gone straight to a higher up. In fact, one of them was black and was often referred to as a nigger behind his back, by instructors, in the rpesence of all recruits. He would have loved to have heard from that. But I suppose I paid for my timidity and so eventually bad just went to worse as I continued complainig about that to the others in the platoon, building a wedge between us. This might also have influenced my views of the military afterwards.
2. As for training in helping the community, that is a totally separate thing from military training, and shouldn't be confused with it. Perhaps that's something we could better term community service training? But yes, that's something I could agree with.
1. Military training does not guarantee decent character building. When I was undergoing infantry training, I could see many recruits succumbing to pressure to drink copious quantities of alcohol, or to sleep around, neither of which are good habbits. Add to that that I'd seen at least one recruit go from fairly innocent to a foul-mouthed biggot within 9 months flat! Terms like nigger, squaw, long-haired greecy civvy, Chinook, Paki, etc. were common, even among some instructors. One recruit was planning on joining the Freemen after his contract. One of the instructors was a collector of Nazi paraphernalia (not necessarily a bad thing in its own right as a hisorical interest, but within the cultural environment I found myself in, it was highly suspicious), etc. And these or similar attitudes were mainstream in the platoon.
So by no means does it necessarily guarantee character development. In some cases, it could degrade character. And it got me into a whole lot of heat for raising my voice about it, even just a little. Perhaps my mistake or naivety at the time was to complain directly to the perpetrators about it. I don't know if the situation would have been different had I kept my mouth shut and gone straight to a higher up. In fact, one of them was black and was often referred to as a nigger behind his back, by instructors, in the rpesence of all recruits. He would have loved to have heard from that. But I suppose I paid for my timidity and so eventually bad just went to worse as I continued complainig about that to the others in the platoon, building a wedge between us. This might also have influenced my views of the military afterwards.
2. As for training in helping the community, that is a totally separate thing from military training, and shouldn't be confused with it. Perhaps that's something we could better term community service training? But yes, that's something I could agree with.
Why would that idea work any better than forcing everyone to become policemen,fireman, paramedics?
Actually, I do have to take something back here. I had joined a professional force, meaning that mostly those interested in military matters would have joined, which might have explained the high concentration of racism, nationalism, etc., especially since it was infantry.
If we should be dealing with universal conscription, that could mean that alot of more mainstream people would be represented, along with more minority representation. Yet even with that, I'm sure the professional branch of the military would likley remain the same. Hard to say.
One possibility could be to just introduce compulsory martial arts lessons in schools. This would still provide fitness training and character training, and still provide fighting skills that could be useful in the event of a major war recuiring mass mobilization, but without forcing a militarist mindset on the whole population in peacetime. Again, maybe I'm wrong and universal service might in fact help the military to open its mind more broadly, I don't know. Maybe studying the situation in other countries could be a worthwhile research project for comparison.
If we should be dealing with universal conscription, that could mean that alot of more mainstream people would be represented, along with more minority representation. Yet even with that, I'm sure the professional branch of the military would likley remain the same. Hard to say.
One possibility could be to just introduce compulsory martial arts lessons in schools. This would still provide fitness training and character training, and still provide fighting skills that could be useful in the event of a major war recuiring mass mobilization, but without forcing a militarist mindset on the whole population in peacetime. Again, maybe I'm wrong and universal service might in fact help the military to open its mind more broadly, I don't know. Maybe studying the situation in other countries could be a worthwhile research project for comparison.
Hence why both my boys, of their own valition, are serving in Canada's Cadet Corp.
No matter who applies, like I said before, you can and will get out of it, only what you put into it.
Hence my submission to Ironsides, that it be more like the existing Cadet Corp. Simply put, it's an extension of the military, but civilian based and more to do with civil service, then military operations.
I will agrre with this comment, having seen it, felt it and delt with it.
Interesting ideas.
I think the military is a very fine, useful and necessary occupation BUT I don't think it's the complete answer. Given all the services the military can provide the main impetus is defense which often leads to war and killing. Perhaps it would be more beneficial to establish a service that would be a more sophisticated version of the Boy Scouts to complement the military.
Why would it have to be internal, though? Let's suppose a person joins some organization (not funded by the government, mind you) that sends him off to help a developing country in the world, and he does work as a volunteer for all intents and purposes for a year? Why should we count his service to non-Canadians as less laudable as service to Canadians?