Budget OK KOs coalition

[Praxius]

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff receives a standing ovation from his MPs Wednesday as he begins debate on the budget in the House of Commons.

NDP, Bloc fume as Liberals say they’ll support amended Tory document
Budget OK KOs coalition - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca

OTTAWA — Plans for a coalition to replace Stephen Harper’s minority Conservative government blew up in bitter recriminations on Wednesday as Michael Ignatieff offered a novel way to let the federal budget pass — for now.

The Liberal leader moved an amendment to the budget that will require the government to table three detailed progress reports to Parliament starting in March.

If the amendment passes — which it’s expected to do with the support of the Tories — Liberals will not vote against the budget.

But Ignatieff said the Liberals are prepared to defeat the government later should any of the progress reports show that the Tories had failed to implement some budget measures or that the budget wasn’t working.

"We are putting this government on probation," he told a news conference.

"Each of these reports will be an opportunity to withdraw our confidence should the government fail Canadians."

Ignatieff said the December threat of a Liberal-NDP coalition forced the government to include $40 billion worth of stimulative measures in the budget; measures the Tories don’t really believe in.

"And now the job of a responsible Opposition is to hold them to their word, to force them to deliver and, if they don’t deliver, to replace them."

The amendment specifies dates for tabling the status reports — March 26, June 23 and Dec. 10. They are timed to coincide with supply bills, which are automatically considered confidence votes.

Liberal strategists touted the manoeuvre as a way to keep the threat of possible defeat hanging over the government, forcing Prime Minister Harper to actually deliver on the budget commitments and maintain a more co-operative tone.

"We will be watching like hawks to make sure that the investments Canadians need actually reach them," Ignatieff said.

In the Commons later, as he kicked off the formal budget debate, Ignatieff equated the amendment to a "flashing yellow light" and advised Harper to "proceed with extreme caution."

Ignatieff refused to say the coalition — negotiated last November by his predecessor, Stephane Dion — is finished. He suggested it could still "play a useful role" in future.

However, his Quebec lieutenant, Denis Coderre, bluntly declared it "dead." And Ignatieff’s erstwhile partners, NDP Leader Jack Layton and Bloc Quebecois Gilles Duceppe, could not contain their anger, heaping scorn on the Liberal leader.

"That’s the end of the coalition," said Duceppe, calling the Ignatieff amendment "a smokescreen" for Liberals to continue propping up the Harper government, as they did under Dion.

True.

Layton called it "a sad day" and said the newly minted Liberal leader has blown his first big decision.

"Today, we learn that we can’t place our trust in Mr. Ignatieff in terms of defeating Mr. Harper," Layton said.

"We have a new coalition on Parliament Hill. It’s a coalition between Mr. Harper and Mr. Ignatieff. I can tell you we will be opposing this coalition each and every day."

Layton further accused Ignatieff of giving Harper "a get-out-of-jail-free card."

Neither the NDP nor the Bloc will support the amendment, leaving it to Harper to decide whether to agree to don a Liberal leash in order to survive the budget vote.

There was no immediate response from the Prime Minister’s Office. But Harper’s House Leader, Jay Hill, said the government will support the amendment because it had intended to report back to Parliament on the progress of the budget in any event.

"You know, this is nothing new. We’re always accountable to Parliament," Hill said.

So in other words, Layton and Duceppe are right.... Iggy just handed them a get out of jail free card......

I knew he'd tuck and run..... frig, if he was going to support the budget, at least he could have done was make some real amendment requests.

During debate in the Commons, Tory MPs made a point of thanking Ignatieff for supporting the budget. They ignored his criticisms and did not refer to the amendment.

NDP and Bloc MPs sneered at what they called a "Liberal-Conservative alliance."

Ignatieff continued to keep his distance from the Tories’ economic management. He called Harper’s leadership "erratic" and recited a litany of "flaws" in the budget, arguing it doesn’t do enough to help the jobless or encourage green technologies, that it breaks the government’s promise to provide stable equalization payments to have-not provinces and attaches strings to infrastructure funding.

And yet..... the Liberals are gonna vote for it anyways.... brilliant! Just utterly BRILLIANT!

Nevertheless, the Liberal amendment does not attempt to change any of those things. Ignatieff said that’s because he didn’t want to provoke a possible election that Canadians need "like a hole in the head."

Moreover, he said it would have been fiscally irresponsible to demand that the government "give us another $5 billion here or $5 billion there."

Typical.

Well.... might as well suck it all in now.... take a deep breath...... and here we go with yet another couple of years of being screwed over by the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine of the Liberals and Conservatives. :roll:

What a joke.

 

[dancing-loon]

I, too, find it sad that they didn't give the coalition a chance. They were so fired up and determined earlier! What transpired between then and now?

Harper was visibly relieved, it seemed to me, despite the harsh labeling he got!! Well, those are just words.

As an ordinary Canadian citizen I wonder how brilliant it is for the Harper government to "fix" the budget, so it will pass, by putting 40 billion on Canada's credit card? We are still way over our head in debt already?

If it was me who had to present a budget that would reflect the direness of the current time, I would look for unnecessary fatty pockets and cut away there to distribute it to the too lean spots. I would freeze every government minister's and agent's salary and legislate the same right across the land. Then I would donate my own salary to a work program of fixing and building roads, cleaning up government sites. Banks and car manufacturers would not get a single cent!! If they can't sell their cars, then they are too expensive and inefficient. Adjust, buddies!!!
Further, I would order our military out of Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. Stop giving aid to other countries - we look after ourselves first! I would throw fifty percent off the welfare list and send them somewhere to work and earn their keep. That would raise the spirit of the rest of the population and everybody would pull on the same rope in the same direction.
I would also close the doors to immigrants. We don't need extra mouths to feed right now. So, hang in there until we feel we can't live without you!

I'll be assassinated the next day!!:lol:

 

[Praxius]

I, too, find it sad that they didn't give the coalition a chance. They were so fired up and determined earlier! What transpired between then and now?

Harper was visibly relieved, it seemed to me, despite the harsh labeling he got!! Well, those are just words.

As an ordinary Canadian citizen I wonder how brilliant it is for the Harper government to "fix" the budget, so it will pass, by putting 40 billion on Canada's credit card? We are still way over our head in debt already?

If it was me who had to present a budget that would reflect the direness of the current time, I would look for unnecessary fatty pockets and cut away there to distribute it to the too lean spots. I would freeze every government minister's and agent's salary and legislate the same right across the land. Then I would donate my own salary to a work program of fixing and building roads, cleaning up government sites. Banks and car manufacturers would not get a single cent!! If they can't sell their cars, then they are too expensive and inefficient. Adjust, buddies!!!
Further, I would order our military out of Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. Stop giving aid to other countries - we look after ourselves first! I would throw fifty percent off the welfare list and send them somewhere to work and earn their keep. That would raise the spirit of the rest of the population and everybody would pull on the same rope in the same direction.
I would also close the doors to immigrants. We don't need extra mouths to feed right now. So, hang in there until we feel we can't live without you!

I'll be assassinated the next day!!:lol:

lol.... yeah by a shoe.

Canadians are just too scared to take a risk on something that might actually work, and would much rather take their chances with what they already know and are used to..... which is the same old same old, with two main parties continually taking turns in screwing us all over.

So rather then taking a chance for something better and risking ending up being miserable, we'll just cut to the chase and end up being miserable without even taking a chance in the first place.

That's the Canadian way it seems.

 

[TenPenny]

I think that what has happened in the mean time is that the Liberal Party gained a leader with the ability to lead, and some political smarts.

 

[pegger]

Well, as much as I don't like the budget, it was a smart tactical move by Iggy.

Conservative (supporters) are up in arms over the lackluster budget, which will put us into debt, and not get us anywhere.

Layton is now running attack ads against Ignatieff, which will only show the Liberals did put the country ahead of partisan politics.

The Liberals, by not demanding any changes to the budget, besides the report card, have effectively made this a Conservative budget only - it's all Conservative ideas. The Liberals can vote it down if it is not working (which it won't) or if the Conservatives don't dole all the money out. So the Conservatives are stuck in a no win situation.

Also keep in mind, the Liberals need to pull soft Conservative support and soft NDP support to raise their fortunes - and this move will do that.

Personally, I would have liked to see the budget defeated. More importantly to me though is that I want Harper out - and I think he has sealed his fate. As the Conservative party ground support starts to waiver, you will see the knives come out to finish him off.

 

[dancing-loon]

I think that what has happened in the mean time is that the Liberal Party gained a leader with the ability to lead, and some political smarts.

Sure, that was a big change. And the Liberals don't want to share their piece of pie just yet. As Praxius says, we like to hang on to the old and known tactics.

 

[Praxius]

I think that what has happened in the mean time is that the Liberal Party gained a leader with the ability to lead, and some political smarts.

Well I guess the only other thing we can "Hope" for at this point in time is that perhaps this government might get something else done before the next soap opera, although my faith is lost even in that.

I believe this is going to be a tooth and nail government. First it was everybody else against the conservatives, and now it'll be the Bloc/NDP against the Liberals/Conservatives.... further dividing the government, which I believe will mean even less productivity.

Iggy's move to make sure we avoid another election, might have been futile all along...... then again, another election will also be futile as it'll just have the same end results as every other election..... Conservative..... or Liberal..... then back to these same games all over again.

I'm starting to understand more about why so many people don't bother to vote:

• Way too many various elections to vote in.... both Provincial, Federal, and all the local councilor stuff, etc.... all way too often and too soon from one another.

• None of these elections/votes ever have any real results that are anymore different from the last time..... therefore a waste of time and money when you think about it.

So why bother vote anymore?

So you can have a say in politics? That's just an illusion, none of us have any real say on anything that really matters in this country, we're all just along for the ride.

(oh and Ten, all this isn't directed towards you, I agreed with much of what you said, I just decided to go off on a side-rant)

 

[dancing-loon]

Well, as much as I don't like the budget, it was a smart tactical move by Iggy.

Conservative (supporters) are up in arms over the lackluster budget, which will put us into debt, and not get us anywhere.

Layton is now running attack ads against Ignatieff, which will only show the Liberals did put the country ahead of partisan politics.

The Liberals, by not demanding any changes to the budget, besides the report card, have effectively made this a Conservative budget only - it's all Conservative ideas. The Liberals can vote it down if it is not working (which it won't) or if the Conservatives don't dole all the money out. So the Conservatives are stuck in a no win situation.

Also keep in mind, the Liberals need to pull soft Conservative support and soft NDP support to raise their fortunes - and this move will do that.

Personally, I would have liked to see the budget defeated. More importantly to me though is that I want Harper out - and I think he has sealed his fate. As the Conservative party ground support starts to waiver, you will see the knives come out to finish him off.

Oh, pegger,... you are a smart politician! You see what I didn't see!:roll: So, actually, Ignatieff is not really supporting the Conservatives!!.. he just gave them more rope to hang themselves with. Is that it?
Like you, I also want Harper from the landscape!

 

[pegger]

Oh, pegger,... you are a smart politician! You see what I didn't see!:roll: So, actually, Ignatieff is not really supporting the Conservatives!!.. he just gave them more rope to hang themselves with. Is that it?
Like you, I also want Harper from the landscape!

Hey - no need to get personal. I mean, what did I ever do to you to get called a politican...:sad11:

 

[Praxius]

Well, as much as I don't like the budget, it was a smart tactical move by Iggy.

Smart for who? The Liberals or the Country?

Conservative (supporters) are up in arms over the lackluster budget, which will put us into debt, and not get us anywhere.

Agreed.... which is why I'm still wondering why this was a smart tactical move since us in the general population will be the ones who are directly affected by its consequences. If it's not going to do anything worth while, then why do it in the first place if all it's going to do is throw us into a big debt?

Layton is now running attack ads against Ignatieff, which will only show the Liberals did put the country ahead of partisan politics.

But is it partisan politics when you look at the whole picture?

He's said nothing more then what most of us are saying here about the budget blowing chunks and the Liberals playing their typical role.

If I was a leader of one of the other parties like the NDP, i'd be distancing myself from both the main parties and keep pointing out that they're continually screwing us all over and something needs to be done...... then when all the crap hits the fan, I could just stand back with hands clean and say "I told you all so, this is what you get when you continually vote these parties into power."

I mean, the NDP, Bloc and Liberals are all supposed to be the opposition and they're supposed to pick out the faults.... that's their job, which helps keep the main party in check.

The Liberals, by not demanding any changes to the budget, besides the report card, have effectively made this a Conservative budget only - it's all Conservative ideas. The Liberals can vote it down if it is not working (which it won't) or if the Conservatives don't dole all the money out. So the Conservatives are stuck in a no win situation.

Indeed, which means when it does fail and fail horribly, the Liberals and Iggy can turn to the nation and say "See, this is all the Conservatives fault" ~ Just so they can become the minority government for a few months until the next election....... even though they supported and voted for this budget.

The classical good/bad cop situation.... it's been going on long before I was even born.

Also keep in mind, the Liberals need to pull soft Conservative support and soft NDP support to raise their fortunes - and this move will do that.

Not with me.... the Liberals had a chance to perhaps get me on their side.... even after the whole Dion stupidity in the last couple of years, I was willing to see if Iggy would make an improvement......

..... same party, same joke tactics, same tv soap opera for all of us to suck up..... different face.... that's it.

No more chances for the Cons or the Liberals in my books.... If I ever vote again, it'll never.... ever be for any of those two parties.

Frig, I'll vote green before I ever vote liberal...... and yes, I know that's even more of a lost cause then the NDP, but perhaps that will show just how sad this government has become.

Besides voting for one of those two parties, or some random independant, the only other option for me is to add to the % of people who don't vote.

Personally, I would have liked to see the budget defeated. More importantly to me though is that I want Harper out - and I think he has sealed his fate. As the Conservative party ground support starts to waiver, you will see the knives come out to finish him off.

Unfortunatly, I'm still waiting.

 

[Cannuck]

I, too, find it sad that they didn't give the coalition a chance. They were so fired up and determined earlier! What transpired between then and now?

They realized that all but the most left-wing of this country were against it and it would be political suicide at the next election if they proceeded. It's a great day for Canada. They compromised. We have avoided another election and Smilin' Jack is further away from a position of power.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Well, as much as I don't like the budget, it was a smart tactical move by Iggy.

Conservative (supporters) are up in arms over the lackluster budget, which will put us into debt, and not get us anywhere.

Layton is now running attack ads against Ignatieff, which will only show the Liberals did put the country ahead of partisan politics.

The Liberals, by not demanding any changes to the budget, besides the report card, have effectively made this a Conservative budget only - it's all Conservative ideas. The Liberals can vote it down if it is not working (which it won't) or if the Conservatives don't dole all the money out. So the Conservatives are stuck in a no win situation.

Also keep in mind, the Liberals need to pull soft Conservative support and soft NDP support to raise their fortunes - and this move will do that.

Personally, I would have liked to see the budget defeated. More importantly to me though is that I want Harper out - and I think he has sealed his fate. As the Conservative party ground support starts to waiver, you will see the knives come out to finish him off.

I think this is one of the first times I've been in agreement with "pegger." Don't be too
hard on this Ignatieff as it's not like he had any real choice but to accept this budget.
The Liberal Party couldn't take the chance that the Governor General wouldn't hand
over the government to this Coalition that the bulk of Canada didn't want (opinion
polls) and might call an election that the Liberals just can't financially afford at this time.
An election will eventually be called after a non confidence vote in a year or two once
the Liberal Party fattens its wallet, but not until that time.

 

[lone wolf]

Poor Jack.... That's probably the closest he'll ever get to power (other than when Olivia lets him use the handcuffs) Bit of wisdom for you, Jack.... Canadians always blame the PM in a recession. If it's any consolation, Harper won't see another term. His seams are splitting now....

 

[pegger]

Praxius:

The problem with Layton is he votes against EVERYTHING, before even seeing it. what credibility is that? I would agree with him more if he said "I'll look at it first, then vote." The guy is just as much a joke as the other 2. The only difference is that Ignatieff has been leader for what, 1 1/2 months, and has 2 days of parliamentary experience as leader - and you expect him to go to the polls (where there would be NO change in the current goverment) or lead a coalition which would cause unity, constitutional and parliamentary problems during an economic crisis?

While I don't like it - it was the smartest move that he (Iggy) could make. Until the Liberals have time to get their house in order, that;'s what we are going to get.

The only hope I have is that they get their act together sooner rather than later. (like in the next 6 months).

Mark my words - we will have an election before the year is out. Hopefully in 6 months - before any real damage is caused.

 

[Cannuck]

Praxius:Mark my words - we will have an election before the year is out. Hopefully in 6 months - before any real damage is caused.

We'll have an election when the Liberals can afford one...and not a day sooner.

 

[Risus]

Looking at Layton as he moaned and groaned after seeing his chance to share the power was priceless.

His true colours came out, making political comments condemning the liberals even before he addressed the issues with the economy. We now know where his heart is....

 

[dancing-loon]

Hey - no need to get personal. I mean, what did I ever do to you to get called a politican...:sad11:

Oh, boy... I stepped on your little toe!! Alright, I'll retract and call you more fittingly an old grouch!! Is that better?

 

[Cannuck]

We now know where his heart is....

Layton has a heart?? Prove it!

 

[pegger]

Oh, boy... I stepped on your little toe!! Alright, I'll retract and call you more fittingly an old grouch!! Is that better?

Much.

Now - I've got Monty Python running through my head right now (paraphased):
Peasant: I'm 37...
King Arthur: What?
Peasant: I'm 37, I'm not old
King Arthur: Well, I can't just call you "Grouch"

 

[dancing-loon]

They realized that all but the most left-wing of this country were against it and it would be political suicide at the next election if they proceeded. It's a great day for Canada. They compromised. We have avoided another election and Smilin' Jack is further away from a position of power.

Amazing, how many different interpretations there are of this latest Liberal move. You could be quite right. This way the Liberals still keep their #2 position and gain time to get organized for the next election, which is much needed.
I don't think Jack and his NDP will ever make it to the top.