NDP wants names of Tories involved in taping of private caucus meeting
Should be somewhat interesting to see how this all unfolds.
Should be somewhat interesting to see how this all unfolds.
NDP wants names of Tories involved in taping of private caucus meeting
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
It's just not going to happen. The public barely know what's going in gov't due to Haro's paranoia and "control issues"
Of course they would. It is simply normal Canadian politics. One does have to wonder why the NDP invited Mr. Duncan to join in though. Rather embarrassing don't you think, especially since Mr Duncan just regained his seat from the NDP.
I'm not convinced it was illegal though since Mr. Duncan was invited. Be interesting to see what the supreemes say. I have known John Duncan for about 15 years and I doubt he would do it without some lawyer saying it is legal.
The taping of the conversation was illegal. It was Linda Duncan that was invited. Not John Duncan. It was a private New Democrat caucus meeting. I'm sure the Conservatives know the rules when it comes to private caucus meetings. How could they not as a political party themselves? The situation is pretty clear despite how the Conservatives got notification of the meeting.
Perhaps John Duncan didn't think his own party would be so stupid as to make the taping public. It hasn't been made clear that he did this or allowed his party to do this with the idea that it would end up being publicly known. Basically what I'm saying is that sometimes a person goes along with an illegal activity because they think no one in the end will know about it.
In order to attend one of those conference calls, you have to first identify yourself. If John Duncan identified himself, he clearly wouldn't have been invited. Secondly, I imagine he would have had to have his wife or some female identify herself as Linda Duncan in order for him to be falsely accepted. Surely he couldn't have done it with his own voice.
If I dropped my credit card on the floor and one of you happened to see me punch in my pin number, that doesn't give any of you the right to look through my personal account even if you don't withdraw any monies. The act would still be illegal.
If I sent out an invitation to someone and it was mistakenly received by a member of this forum who shared the last name, that wouldn't give any of you the right to go to my house, and if the door was accidently unlocked, give any of you the right to walk around my home and look through my stuff, or check messages on my answering machine. I would still be within my rights to have such a person charged at the very least for trespassing.
The mistaken identity email would have been obvious to the person who received the email notification.
But now that I've said all that, I don't have a lot of faith right now in our judicial system. I do not have a lot of faith that the politicians in our country are held to be accountable to our laws.
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The NDP are so inept that not only do they send an invitation to the wrong person but then they allow that person to listen in to a meeting where they're bargaining with separatists on how to bring down the government without confirming who is on the line before beginning of the meeting. And Jack wants my vote so he can run a country? I think I prefer somone who bent the ethics rules to someone who makes deals with traitors behind closed doors while waving the flag on his front step. 50 years ago he'd have been thrown in jail, a hundred years ago he would have been shot...
Well Mr. Duncan, regardless of his knowlege of how that material will be used, should have clearly knew that
A) He is not a member of their party and shouldn't have taken the invitation in the first place.
B) Recording it was even more of an aparent no no.
C) Passing it around to the rest of your conservative buddies which eventually makes its way to the media is a real no no no.....
And ignorance is not an excuse from the law.
Indeed.
Also agree....
Our system of government has been going down the tubes for a couple of decades now, and in the last few years, it's become even worse then ever before.
We have politicians yelling and screaming at each other in Ottawa like school children, the Speaker doing nothing to maintain control, our own Prime Minister lying to the nation's face on a number of occasions (which I have already proven in a few other threads with quotes) Our Prime Minister trying to divide the nation with seperatist talk that was never the case unti he opened his mouth, our Gov. General not doing her job and upholding our democracy, bending over and taking it from behind to do whatever Harper says, we have other political parties being spied on, conspirators complaining about conspiracies by other conspirators, power-grab elections with no results, tax money flying out the window, government put on hold while our businesses and jobs vanish.....
and the list keeps getting bigger.
And all the while I see people here complaining about the Liberals or NDP working with the Bloc (which the hypocrite Cons have done numerous times in the past) and trivializing their own problems, all the while trying to put the entire situation we're all in on their shoulders...... it seems they all forget that at present, Harper is the one supposed to lead the government, he's the one who is supposed to maintain order and reach out to the other parties to make this government work.
He has not done this, he has never done this since he became Prime Minister..... and since he's been Prime Minister, the entire situation has been made worse then ever before, simply because he has no intention to work with anybody else unless they accept his method of how things should go.
That's not a leader, that's a power hungry tyrant..... and if he's only going to be willing to lead his own party and screw the rest of those democratically elected, then there is simply no confidence in his abilities to be Prime Minister, simply because he doesn't have the mentality required to be a leader.
And yes, not all of these problems are just from the Conservatives, and other parties have their own roles to play in the mess..... but it seems the biggest problems that continually occur, fall at the feet of Harper and the Conservatives.
Lineman you need to get a clue.
Once again, as it has been said countless times before in many other threads, the Bloc are not traitors, if they were they wouldn't be in our government at this time now would they? Layton did nothing different then what the Conservatives already planned to do against Martin before they got into power...... which was getting the support of the Bloc to maintain a Coalition.
Sound familiar?
So if you want to go around shooting politicians, how about you line up your buddy Harper first, since he started this whole mess in the first place?
Oh yeah, that's right, Harper's plans back then were slightly different, so that makes it ok then. :roll:
Speaking of bending the rules a bit.... you think it's ok for the Conservatives to bend the rules (Break the law if you ask me) but it's not ok for the other parties to democratically form a Coalition to finally get this government working?
Oh what about their "Closed Door Talks" with the Bloc?
How many closed door talks are you aware of that the Conservatives have? Probably you don't know about many of them because they're not supposed to be recorded. I know every party, including the Cons have closed door meetings from the public..... this isn't a big deal.... but oh but since the Cons illegally recorded one detailing a small snippet of information on planning to form a democratically allowed coalition..... somehow it's a bad thing. :roll:
Well if I was facing yet another government term with Harper in power, common sense would play in and I would believe there would be a very good chance of him pulling more of the same stunts he has before the election, and when that time comes, I would want to be prepared.
So what solutions are available?
Another Election.... Hmmm... but we just went through one that did nothing and a lot of tax payer's money went out for nothing.
A Coalition? Hmmmm.... it's legal, those who were voted by the citizens of Canada will still be represented and a long list of things each party already agrees on can be pushed through really quickly and easily in the government.... the only problem is that we may need the support of the Bloc to pass many of the bills and laws...... well the Conservatives already tried to do that, so it must be ok. Afterall, the Bloc is made up of more members of the government who were democratically elected by Canadian Citizens..... and their whole seperatist crap has been put on the back burners since the mid-90's...... if they try and pull something, we can just call another election to stop it, so there is no real concern. The Coalition would last for as long as we all agree it should last.
Gee.... which one makes more sense?
You using the term Traitor is just plain ignorant.
If the Bloc were actually traitors, they wouldn't be in our government in the first place, no other party would accept their support on bills and all their votes would be disqualified.
And here's the real kicker:
You call the Coalition and those who make it up traitors for getting support from the Bloc..... yet I bet you anything that during a non-confidence vote, if the Bloc decided to vote to support the Conservatives..... the Conservatives would suck up every last vote..... and don't tell me they wouldn't, because that'd just be stupid.
Pretty damn hypocritical if you ask me.
I agree with you about not having much faith in the judicial system or politicians for that matter.
With regards to the Email invite: We don't know who it was addressed to, unless you know something that I never heard. We know it was intended for Linda Duncan but was it addressed to her or John? That would most likely be the deciding factor. As for it being illegal to record the call, that is the opinion of the NDP but I bet you could find a number of lawyers to say it was legal. That is why it would be interesting to see what the supreemes would say.
Mostly it was just an embarassing mistake by some one in the NDP. No big deal. The other parties will eventually get caught doing something as stupid.
I see. The defense here was that John Duncan was too stupid to know that he wasn't Linda Duncan or a member of the NDP caucus yet his party just happened to have a recording system all set up to tape the conversation.
I doubt that. It is not illegal to tape any conversation to which you are a party........whether your invitation was mistaken or not.
Unethical? Perhaps. Although who could resist an invitation into the enemies' strategy session?
Illegal? No way.
Yeah, there must be some real dummies in the Conservative party.
I think I told a story yesterday about a guy I knew in school who'd be caught red handed in doing something, and still to the bitter end try and act all innocent like he didn't know what he was doing was wrong...... it was an immature joke back then, it's an immature joke now...... and for any of the Conservatives to act like they didn't know what they were doing was illegal is just plain sad.
Oh well, good thing that Ignorance is not an excuse from the law..... you break the law, you break the law..... send them off to jail to be bitched.
Who am I kidding.... they'll just get a fine, which they'll pay off with tax payer's money anyways. What a country. :roll:
It isn't a news item, which is why I posted it in the "Canadian Politics" section. Try and keep up.
If in fact it's worth posting anywhere.
He was not invited.... it was illegal no matter how you try and spin it.
And if it was a Liberal listening in and recording a Con meeting, you'd be all up in arms over it, calling for their head.
Let's put it into another situation shall we?
You are given a key card to attend a fancy dinner with a bunch of celebs and big wigs that could help get you into a more relaxed and better paying job. There's all kinds of food, gift baskets...... and.... oh I don't know.... you get your own elephant.
While you're paying attention to something else, I take the keycard from your pocket and attend the dinner under your identity. I get all kinds of food, meet all kinds of people, get an offer for a pretty good job, I get a gift basket loaded with an IPod, IPhone (which both I would sell anyways), a dildo, and a bunch of other expensive crap...... oh and I get to ride home on an elephant.
Then you come showing up, banging on the door cuz you don't have the keycard, a guy answers it and you explain the situation and they realize someone shouldn't be there taking all their expensive stuff they planned to give to you.......
Chances are, my ass would be arrested and I'd be jailed.
In this situation with the meeting of the NDP, etc..... last I checked, you are not allowed to record anybody's voice/conversation without their consent or as you put it, unless you are a party of the conversation.
Someone elsewhere put it this way:
What happened was illegal, because they were not aware of this person being a part of the meeting, let alone being allowed to listen in, not to mention record it.
Use some common sense, do you seriously think the NDP knew this guy was listening and wasn't the member they originally expected to be at the meeting? If they knew this guy was listening in, don't you think they probably would have halted the meeting so he wouldn't hear and perhaps then call the police?
What he did was in essence eavesdropping on them without them knowing it and recording the conversation without their consent......
So yes.... it's very illegal.