What role should government play in the arts?

What aspects of the arts should government be involved in?

  • No aspect. We shouldn't even fund art education in schools.

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • I support education in the arts, but no more.

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Governmnet should fund all aspects of the arts.

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Other answer.

    Votes: 6 54.5%

  • Total voters
    11

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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I voted education in the arts. Art education in elementary and secondary schools, be it in calligraphy, music, etc. etc. etc. has sometimes led to careers in diverse trades and professions, from music to professional painters to actors, forensic artists hired by the police to solve crimes, etc. etc. etc.

After we teach him how to fish though, it's up to him to find the fish in the regular job market like anyone else. There are plenty of jobs in the arts even without art in the private sector, police, advertising, teaching, etc even without public funding earmarked specifically for the arts.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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As for the CBC, I can understand the fear of all news media being owned by corporate interests, but if we combine good public education and access to the internet where it's now quite cheap to put up your own webpage, I don't see how corporations could really monopolize the media anymore. The TV media, maybe, but now most people get their news on-line. So even fuding for the CBC is no longer needed if it ever was based on that argument.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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As for the CBC, I can understand the fear of all news media being owned by corporate interests, but if we combine good public education and access to the internet where it's now quite cheap to put up your own webpage, I don't see how corporations could really monopolize the media anymore. The TV media, maybe, but now most people get their news on-line. So even fuding for the CBC is no longer needed if it ever was based on that argument.

Machjo do you even know what the CBC is? The CBC broadcasts in not only the two official languages but also in 7 or 8 aboriginal languages. The other networks were offered the chance to provide these services but they all declined. In the far north all there is is the CBC. School classes are taught on television and radio.
Here is a link to some information on the subject:


CBC/Radio-Canada - CBC Fact Sheet
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Please vote in this poll.

Governments should play two main roles- enacting legislation and doing some monitoring, like care of marginalized children and the elderly. They shouldn't be sticking their noses into things that can be run by the business community, but leave that stuff for the experts. No wonder our friggin' taxes are so high.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Machjo do you even know what the CBC is? The CBC broadcasts in not only the two official languages but also in 7 or 8 aboriginal languages. The other networks were offered the chance to provide these services but they all declined. In the far north all there is is the CBC. School classes are taught on television and radio.
Here is a link to some information on the subject:


CBC/Radio-Canada - CBC Fact Sheet

Granted if the CBC is playing an integral part in Northern education, then by all means pay for it, but that would have nothing whatsoever to do with arts funding. This would fall under funding for education, which would mean that every cent given to the CBC would be earmarked for education. The other components of the CBC (i.e. those funded by the government's arts budget) should have their fate left up to the market to decide.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
Let me just clarify that I'm not counting any arts spending aimed at a particular educational goal, since in my opinion such funding shouldn't count as art funding at all, but education funding. But art funding for art's sake alone is what I was referring to here. Sorry for not clarifying this.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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But seriously, when the government starts to fund things like flying bananas and three-stiped paintings any kid could do, by millions of dollars, we've got a problem.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
The arts are a valid part of education and should be funded by government. In addition where advisable, the government should fund the building of statues in order to honor good citizens, historic figures or events. But its patronage should be limited on a case-by-case basis.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
The arts are a valid part of education and should be funded by government. In addition where advisable, the government should fund the building of statues in order to honor good citizens, historic figures or events. But its patronage should be limited on a case-by-case basis.

Sure, if there is an educational purpose, fine, but like I said, then that's educaiton funding and the school board could decide on that, not a separate fund earmarked for arts for the sake of arts.

As for statues, if the personage in question is that important, collecting donations from the general public should prove easy enough. If that can't be done, then clearly the personage in question isn't woth it, is he?

And certainly if that statue has an educational purpose (e.g. a local school wants to build a statue of Tolstoi as part of a peace education programme in school) I'm all for it, but that would come out of the school's education budget, not a separate government arts budget.
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Please vote in this poll.

I Chose number 4 "Other"

The subject is a little too vague to just brush in 4 categories.. I would not even want to start listing them all here. But schools are a good start, although I have seen some wasteful ones that do nothing.

But so many small arts programs and productions need help to keep going that its scary. Small theatre plays at the local level and not the big productions must be encouraged. Not everyone can afford to go see the big production of plays with the kids but would like them to be exposed to better then school quality acting.

Also where do we start to keep Canada's identity ? We need more Museums and Art centres for our kids to learn about Canada as well. If we want to be proud of this Country, we need such places to remind us how great we are..

Also while we are at it events such as Canada Day, Dragon Races, Heritage day and other such local Proud in Canada type of event depend on some form of funding from this department. However little comes from here must help build the community and shape and focus that Canada Attention at every corner.

Last but not least we need funding for great children and educational programming on TV that is not supported by big corporations..

While much of this is viewed as a Government handout, many of these events bring a lot of "tax" dollars in to the budget in the form of the GST and people coming to visit..
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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48
Ottawa, ON
The subject is a little too vague to just brush in 4 categories.. I would not even want to start listing them all here. But schools are a good start, although I have seen some wasteful ones that do nothing.

Agreed. I had to simplify it to fit it into a poll though, which is why I included the other option.

But so many small arts programs and productions need help to keep going that its scary. Small theatre plays at the local level and not the big productions must be encouraged. Not everyone can afford to go see the big production of plays with the kids but would like them to be exposed to better then school quality acting.

But if schools provided quality arts education, at least these start up companies could save money on having to train their actors. Already a start while at the same time ensuring that everyone benefits directly from public arts funding in that all children would have access to this education. If we just fund the companies directly, then what company do we fund, and by how much. The field becomes ripe for favouristism then. And not everyone would necessarily care to go to this or that particular theatre that receives the funding. What constitutes good art is simply too subjective.

Also where do we start to keep Canada's identity ? We need more Museums and Art centres for our kids to learn about Canada as well. If we want to be proud of this Country, we need such places to remind us how great we are..

I do not need a museum for me to love this country. And where are we to build these museums? I live in the Capital region, and we have museums up our yingyang, but is that fair? How many museums are there in Victoria? Not even half as many yet the population is roughly the same. So how do we allocate these museums? Leave it up to the private sector to decide. Again, if a local school deems it worthwhile to take kids to a field trip to a particular museum, they can pay the ticket from their school funding, and in that way support that museum. This woudl also ensure that all towns across Canada could develop such small inexpensive museums, rather than us hogging all the museums here in Ottawa.

Also while we are at it events such as Canada Day, Dragon Races, Heritage day and other such local Proud in Canada type of event depend on some form of funding from this department. However little comes from here must help build the community and shape and focus that Canada Attention at every corner.

They depend on the funding because they always got the funding. Cut the funding and they'll start fund raising.

Last but not least we need funding for great children and educational programming on TV that is not supported by big corporations..

As I've mentioned before, educational art funding should fall under general education funding, not art funding.

While much of this is viewed as a Government handout, many of these events bring a lot of "tax" dollars in to the budget in the form of the GST and people coming to visit..

So if it's such a money maker for local businesses, then those businesses will be quick to organize and fill the void when government leaves, won't they? I can guarantee that if local businesses believe that this funding is profitable for them, they'll gladly fund it themselves.
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
The subject is a little too vague to just brush in 4 categories.. I would not even want to start listing them all here. But schools are a good start, although I have seen some wasteful ones that do nothing.

Agreed. I had to simplify it to fit it into a poll though, which is why I included the other option.

I understood

But so many small arts programs and productions need help to keep going that its scary. Small theatre plays at the local level and not the big productions must be encouraged. Not everyone can afford to go see the big production of plays with the kids but would like them to be exposed to better then school quality acting.

But if schools provided quality arts education, at least these start up companies could save money on having to train their actors. Already a start while at the same time ensuring that everyone benefits directly from public arts funding in that all children would have access to this education. If we just fund the companies directly, then what company do we fund, and by how much. The field becomes ripe for favouristism then. And not everyone would necessarily care to go to this or that particular theatre that receives the funding. What constitutes good art is simply too subjective.


I agree schools are important as well. I meant that some school abuse the Arts funding as much as anyone else.

Also where do we start to keep Canada's identity ? We need more Museums and Art centres for our kids to learn about Canada as well. If we want to be proud of this Country, we need such places to remind us how great we are..

I do not need a museum for me to love this country. And where are we to build these museums? I live in the Capital region, and we have museums up our yingyang, but is that fair? How many museums are there in Victoria? Not even half as many yet the population is roughly the same. So how do we allocate these museums? Leave it up to the private sector to decide. Again, if a local school deems it worthwhile to take kids to a field trip to a particular museum, they can pay the ticket from their school funding, and in that way support that museum. This woudl also ensure that all towns across Canada could develop such small inexpensive museums, rather than us hogging all the museums here in Ottawa.

Our only Museum in Victoria BC is the Royal BC Museum a provincial one. Yes we could use many more. I know of none in Vancouver a city overwhelmingly bigger. Perhaps it is just I am not aware but I have looked.. It seems we could do a better job. How many in other big cities. Then again, nothing has to be built overnight..

As for loving this country, you may not need this for you to love it, but it would probably boost more peoples ego in Canada's pride if they had it..

Also while we are at it events such as Canada Day, Dragon Races, Heritage day and other such local Proud in Canada type of event depend on some form of funding from this department. However little comes from here must help build the community and shape and focus that Canada Attention at every corner.

They depend on the funding because they always got the funding. Cut the funding and they'll start fund raising.

Fact is cutting the funding has resulted in losing the events.. This is not just a theory but fact here.. raising funds may sound great in corporate America but does not happen in Canada due to the fact we do not hand out tax breaks in return.


Last but not least we need funding for great children and educational programming on TV that is not supported by big corporations..

As I've mentioned before, educational art funding should fall under general education funding, not art funding.

No it cannot be the same.. Educational funding is for school and not children not yet in the school system.. We are not talking apples to apples here..

While much of this is viewed as a Government handout, many of these events bring a lot of "tax" dollars in to the budget in the form of the GST and people coming to visit..

So if it's such a money maker for local businesses, then those businesses will be quick to organize and fill the void when government leaves, won't they? I can guarantee that if local businesses believe that this funding is profitable for them, they'll gladly fund it themselves.

Businesses that are small restaurants and such do not band or make enough profit to pull in such events.. That is why they depend on the Arts program to bring the event to them and benefit the neighbourhood.. Go to a festival and ask a small concession of they could ever bring that event over on their own.. Chances are they would not and would lose a major part of their yearly income and tax payment to the government. The sides benefits often times out weight the costs and you must look beyond what you pay.

Yes supporting stupid events is not OK.. But looked after properly this department should be doing fine..
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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48
Ottawa, ON
I agree schools are important as well. I meant that some school abuse the Arts funding as much as anyone else.

Perhaps.


Our only Museum in Victoria BC is the Royal BC Museum a provincial one. Yes we could use many more. I know of none in Vancouver a city overwhelmingly bigger. Perhaps it is just I am not aware but I have looked.. It seems we could do a better job. How many in other big cities. Then again, nothing has to be built overnight..

As for loving this country, you may not need this for you to love it, but it would probably boost more peoples ego in Canada's pride if they had it..

Perhaps, but local governments are more likely to know what is needed in that regard than the federal or even provincial ones. Perhaps it's time to give local governments more taxation powers and roll back federal taxes in response. It's perhaps time to decentralize.



Fact is cutting the funding has resulted in losing the events.. This is not just a theory but fact here.. raising funds may sound great in corporate America but does not happen in Canada due to the fact we do not hand out tax breaks in return.

Well, if the event wasn't popular enough in the first place, then let it fall. Besides, if the government didn't fund it anymore, we'd see a drop in taxes over time, so that companies could then afford it with the money they'd save from these new tax breaks.


As I've mentioned before, educational art funding should fall under general education funding, not art funding.

No it cannot be the same.. Educational funding is for school and not children not yet in the school system.. We are not talking apples to apples here..

OK, it seems we both misunderstood one another here. Education funding would not have to be limited to schools. What I simply meant woud be that governments could give more money to their Ministries of Education. This money would not have to be limited to schools and of course could go towards educational programming without a doubt. But if a Ministry of Education gives the money, it will be more conscious of the importance of ensuring a clearly defined educational objective for this programming.



Businesses that are small restaurants and such do not band or make enough profit to pull in such events.. That is why they depend on the Arts program to bring the event to them and benefit the neighbourhood.. Go to a festival and ask a small concession of they could ever bring that event over on their own.. Chances are they would not and would lose a major part of their yearly income and tax payment to the government. The sides benefits often times out weight the costs and you must look beyond what you pay.

Again, if the government didn't fund it anymore, then taxes would be lower so businesses could afford it with the money saved from tax cuts.
Yes supporting stupid events is not OK.. But looked after properly this department should be doing fine.. [/quote]
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
I wouldn't want to live in an environment where art appreciation is not taught & believe our govt. should fund the National Ballet,Symphonies and cultural events.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
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Newfoundland!
badly constructed poll, machjo. I support somewhere in between "art education only" and "all of the arts" Obviously this is a huge gap. I'm somewhere about 10% of the way above "education only", meaning i'm much closer to that option than any other, and nowhere near "all of it". However, I think it would be a wrong move to go for education only, so I voted "other"
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Currently, government spending on the arts makes up about .21% of the GDP and less than one percent of government spending. This is not much in the grand scheme of things. We should try to eliminate obvious, stupid, things like that big banana but we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Let me just clarify that I'm not counting any arts spending aimed at a particular educational goal, since in my opinion such funding shouldn't count as art funding at all, but education funding. But art funding for art's sake alone is what I was referring to here. Sorry for not clarifying this.
hat could change my vote somewhat. Teaching basic art in ELEMENTRY SCHOOL is one thing, taxpayers footing the bill for someone to play in university when they should be getting a real education that will get them a job is entirely different.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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hat could change my vote somewhat. Teaching basic art in ELEMENTRY SCHOOL is one thing, taxpayers footing the bill for someone to play in university when they should be getting a real education that will get them a job is entirely different.

Personally, I believe post-compulsory education should be free but specialized. And I'd have nothing against paying for the arts education of those who intend to specialize in the arts as a trade or profession. It's easy to overlook the trades and professions available in the arts, but the art industries do need qualified men and women. And it doesn't just include theatres and concert halls and art galleries and exhibits. It includes web design and graphic arts, criminal forensic sicence to reconstruct a face on a victim's skull, marketting, music therapy, etc. etc. etc.