Democracy-reforming the Canadian system

Does your Minister of Parliment agree with you ?


  • Total voters
    7

Inteligento

New Member
Feb 13, 2008
49
0
6
Ontario
The first past the post system has served :canada:Canada well over the centuries but it has not been improved adjusted or modified significantly to serve a society as diverse in culture as :canada:Canada has become .

We can no longer draw lines in the sand and choose sides we have become as politically diverse as we are culturally .

Our political landscape is more gray than black and white. One key indicator is the turn out at the polls, less people find it important enough to vote every time an election is called.

Another is the frustration citizens have choosing who to vote for.

The real problem being that they can't see themselves joining a political party when they cannot identify with any one party due to lack of diversity within the parties.

We are a nation of swing voters fed up with the choices we are faced with and therefore decline to put our support behind any one party.

Special interest groups are being created at exponential rates this is a sign that the political parties are not in tune with the needs of our modern society. When independent groups are successfully soliciting for funds (voluntary tax)to do the work already performed by government agencies that are under funded by our government due to the political fear of raising taxes there is a problem with representation of the electorate.

It is time to put our heads together and reform our democratic system to better represent our cultural diversities and at the same time respect the traditions of our past.

Canada:canada: was built on hunting, fishing, logging, farming and mining, these activities are entrenched in our way of life but some how we are losing respect for way government deals with the things that sustain us.

Please don't make :spam1: this is not about weather you agree or disagree with the above statements.

This is about reforming our democratic system, keep it technical to the point and about the system.

What are your Ideas ?

P.S. a little tidbit from Preston
Preston Manning: Re-engaging Canadians in Democracy
 
Last edited:

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
5,247
37
48
72
Ottawa ,Canada
Preston would never make it as a Prime Minister of Canada ,What Canada needs is another PET ;you know the ...." just watch me" kind ,the kind that likes to show off his pirouetting abilities in front of other world leaders or JC who doesn't know what happened to the millions of dollars stolen from the tax payer .Yes ,Preston Manning would never make it as a Prime Minister of Canada ; he is just too intelligent and too moral of a man.Yeap ,PM....Preston Manning .
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
17
38
8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Well if it's electoral reform, I'd think that a system similar to New Zealand's would benefit Canada well...

Electoral system of New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With this system, a vote is cast for both the party and a local representative...

The New Zealand electoral system is a two-tiered system. The lower tier determines the local representative. The upper, over-riding tier determines the proportionality of the House.
New Zealand voters have two votes. The main vote is the party vote. This vote determines the proportionality of the House, the upper tier of the electoral system. The other vote is the electorate vote for the lower tier. This determines the local representative within the House, and usually does not change the proportionality of the House. The electorate vote works as a plurality system, whereby whichever candidate gets the highest electorate vote in each electorate receives the seat. Since the two votes do not need to be for the same party, voters can punish or reward local candidates. In the 2005 election 20% of local representatives elected were of a party other than the party which got the largest party vote in that electorate.
Parties that receive 5% of the party vote are entitled to a share of the nominally 120 seats in the House of Representatives. So are parties that win one or more electorate seats; a rule which applied to four parties in 2005 that fell below the 5% threshold, although only two of the four qualified for additional list seats. The seats are allocated using the Sainte-Laguë method. If an independent candidate is elected, then the number of seats to be allocated falls to 119 (or 118 if two are elected, and so forth).
Parties then fill their seats. Seats are allocated first to electorate MPs. Then parties fulfil their remaining quota from their party list. If a party has more electorate MPs than proportional seats, then it receives an overhang. If the party does not have enough people on its list to fulfil its quota, then there is an underhang.

They also have seats in the House of Representatives reserved for Maori candidates...

I think this would be a good way to include our native and francophone populations in a more balanced electoral system.
 

snowman2795

New Member
Dec 5, 2008
6
0
1
Under the idiot Charter, you can't change your system. Two thirds of the country over a period of seven years....in a country where governments change more often than your socks.

Only solution is to get rid of Quebec, which will force the issue. Then you can get rid of this Parliament nonsense, become a republic, or better yet...join the US and learn what freedom is all about.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Under the idiot Charter, you can't change your system. Two thirds of the country over a period of seven years....in a country where governments change more often than your socks.

It can and will be changed if the majority of the population want it changed, or else a revolution and regardless.... it changes.

Either the government and the system starts working or we make it start working.

Only solution is to get rid of Quebec, which will force the issue. Then you can get rid of this Parliament nonsense, become a republic, or better yet...join the US and learn what freedom is all about.

Quebec can leave on their own if they like, you don't abandon or boot out a province and canadian population just because it would suit your own needs.... you can boot yourself out, but don't go around making decisions for the collective other a population you apparently know nothing about.

Become a Republic? That's even worse then what we have now and is a bigger farce of an illusion of freedom.

Join the US and learn what freedom is all about?

Do you even know how stupid that sounds?

Gitmo Cuba?

Sending racial profiled people off to forign 3rd world countries to be tortured simply because they look like terrorists?

The Patriot Act?

Same Sex Marriages being Restricted?

Invasion of two sovrign nations that were unprovoked?

Having a Super Christian Nut Job as a President for 8 years and screwed everything up all based on his ignorant values?

Yeah.... we'll learn something alright.

If you want to be a part of the US, then move down there yourself and enjoy it.

The moment this country merges into the US is either the day I pickup a weapon or I leave this screwed up place and never return.

I spit at the concept of becoming a citizen of the United States. It might be for some people, but it's sure as hell not for me.

And they may have Obama as president and even I said that'd be a good change for the US, but that's certainly not enough for me to forget everything that the US has done over the years to millions of people and their families.

Screw that!
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
As it goes for a new form of government system, in the last couple of days I have been thinking of a new system, which would help give structure and a starting point for my NDD concept, which would directly network each province together in a collective, economical web of support, funding, jobs, health care and education in an equal manner accross the nation.

And each province would be represented by their own political party, but they do not make any decisions, they carry them out. Citizens of this nation make their collective voices heard and based on varioud answers and views in each location, the type of lifestyle, employment, laws, and everything else would be customized for each area based on majority..... without having the votes split up through several options to make it pointless.

In the end, each province would be technically running their own affairs with very little influence from others, except for when one needs a safety net for tough times like now..... and when your province has problems, the others are there for you. So long as you help up-keep other provinces and their ways of life, so they will help your way of life and community when the time comes.

This way, we won't have politicians trying to divide the nation because there would be no need. This process will also allow each province to leave the collective if they please, because that is their democratic right...... but at the same time, this networking system will allow other States, Provinces or other Nations to join into this collective without actually having to change their ways of life if they don't want to, but still be able to support each other and themselves to better everyone.

I'll lay it out all in more detail later.
 

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
5,247
37
48
72
Ottawa ,Canada
Either the government and the system starts working or we make it start working.

Hope you mean that Parxius ; Canada needs people with guts who are not afraid to jump into an unknown and make it great ; not the politicaly correct ones .
 
Last edited:

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Hope you mean that Parxius ; Canada needs people with guts who are not afraid to jump into an unknown and make it great ; not the politicaly correct ones .

I tend to say what I mean, but I see no point in fighting for something that the majority of the country doesn't seem to care much about or are just content with how things are today.

If there is no support, then why bother?

I mean I could pull a Hitler and force people to think my way, but what good does that really do in the long run?
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
The Canadian system doesn't need to be reformed we need to learn how it works - maybe stop watching so much American TV.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
Well if it's electoral reform, I'd think that a system similar to New Zealand's would benefit Canada well...

Electoral system of New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With this system, a vote is cast for both the party and a local representative...



They also have seats in the House of Representatives reserved for Maori candidates...

I think this would be a good way to include our native and francophone populations in a more balanced electoral system.

Your probably right.

I am to lazy to track it down but I could have sworn a few years back there was some kind of large study that evaluated all the varies types and permutations of electoral systems.
I could be wrong but I seem to remember that they found the NZ to about the most effective.

Maybe Canada should look at it.

Trex
 

snowman2795

New Member
Dec 5, 2008
6
0
1
I love guys like your Praxius. You are just so...all-knowing. Typical NDP granola cruncher lookin' out through the picture window and judging how the neighbor cuts his lawn.

First, like most Canadians, you define yourself by what you are not. You're not American. Good for you. The same can be said for the Swiss. Next....

Second, as not even a middle power anymore, but rather a Lloyd Axworthy, 'soft power' that doesn't have skin in the game Canadians can yap about Gitmo or Vietnam or Iraq or whatever ya want cuz your country is so irrelevant, and so far under the radar--it has no impact at all. Not even a moral impact, because well, there is that no skin in the game concept.

I just think about all those great Canadians in their beautful blue berets watching bodies float down the river in Rwanda. Quite a sight. Or that wonderful move of giving both Pakistan and India the tools to build nuclear weapons. Genius.

Oddly, Canadians like you are more interested in looking out the window than in the mirror. You might want to take a look at yerselves from time to time. Pretty ugly picture.

Which gets me back to the US. You mention Gitmo. We're getting rid of it. That's what grown-ups who have skin in the game do when you make a mistake. You fix it.

Canadians like you love freedom. You're more than willing to watch Amerians die for it all day long. You folks just sit back and let us do the fighting while your government wracks up surpluses. You're kinda like whiny teenagers in a way.

Canadians ignore their mistakes and fix nothing. You always fall back and say, "Well at least we're not like the Americans!" Ya got that right.

And then you mention the guy we sent off to Syria to get tortured. That was wrong.

Hey by the way, what have you PERSONALLY done or said lately to your government about the third-world conditions native people live in up there? Let's see...about half a million people who supposedly get DIRECT subsidies of $6 billion a year...and yet they live in third world poverty and ignorance. Hmmmm....that's a scandal doncha think?

The Patriot Act?
I love it. Compare it to the War Measures Act invoked to catch half a dozen wankers in Quebec I suppose.

Same Sex Marriages being Restricted? Good thing too. You want to give blessings to perversion that kills, that's your business.

"Invasion of two sovrign nations that were unprovoked?"
You mean Afghanistan and Iraq. Uhh...911 ring a bell? By the way there were over forty Canadians who died in the towers that day, but well....to admit that might hurt the feelings of your growing Muslim community up there.

Afghanistan was and is definitely were the action is in getting those 6th Century morons removed from the face of the earth. Unless of course as a good NDP'er you're now going to argue that whipping women who show some ankle or go out into the markets at the wrong time is maybe ok? And doncha just love those honor killings?

As for Iraq...we were lied to. But because we're grown-ups we're getting out. But if you think old Saddam was a great guy, then hey good on ya bud. That'll teach us!

"Having a Super Christian Nut Job as a President for 8 years and screwed everything up all based on his ignorant values?"

I'm no big fan of GW. And I don't feel any need to defend him just because he is my President. We're encouraged to think for ourselves here and have different opinions.

But you comment does get to the intolerance of the tolerant showing itself. Secular atheists like you insist on 'tolerance', yet you have none for people of other view-points. People like you will insist Christians have no right to 'force their views on others'. Instead we should just sit quietly while people sin and happily destroy their lives, the lives of others, and then march off to hell.

You know...they said the same thing to William Wilberforce, who ended slavery, child labor and even cruelty to animals. But I guess you would say those things were okay. Certainly he had no right using his religion to end evil.

"If you want to be a part of the US, then move down there yourself and enjoy it."

Actually, I did. I decided I could wait for Quebec to separate, or separate myself. Quebecers are narrow-minded fascists. I love America. I love Americans. I love the freedom to think and say what I want. I love great healthcare (in Canada I waited three years for gallstone surgery) that includes among other things the use of clotbusters for strokes over the past twenty years. Still 'experimental' up there. By the way, if your DOG needs an MRI, he can get one this afternoon if you'd like down here.

"The moment this country merges into the US is either the day I pickup a weapon or I leave this screwed up place and never return."

So you have a knife and fork then? That'll show us! Hey maybe you could go way north to one of those native reserves to starve like the rest of the folks up there. Or you could consider Switzerland. Nice place. Low taxes. Decentralized government. Multi-lingual even. Great military. Mind you...you'd have to keep a machine gun loaded in your house at all times and serve in the military.

"I spit at the concept of becoming a citizen of the United States. It might be for some people, but it's sure as hell not for me."

Great, so when are you gonna grow-up then and be a real citizen of Canada?

"And they may have Obama as president and even I said that'd be a good change for the US, but that's certainly not enough for me to forget everything that the US has done over the years to millions of people and their families."

Yeah...teaching all those people in Japan and Germany and China and India to play well with others in the sandbox, and then compete against us with our money...that was kinda dumb alright.

You break me up. :) LOL

"Screw that!"

Yup, you are a genius alright. No doubt about it.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
It can and will be changed if the majority of the population want it changed, or else a revolution and regardless.... it changes.

Either the government and the system starts working or we make it start working.



Quebec can leave on their own if they like, you don't abandon or boot out a province and canadian population just because it would suit your own needs.... you can boot yourself out, but don't go around making decisions for the collective other a population you apparently know nothing about.

Become a Republic? That's even worse then what we have now and is a bigger farce of an illusion of freedom.

Join the US and learn what freedom is all about?

Do you even know how stupid that sounds?

Gitmo Cuba?

Sending racial profiled people off to forign 3rd world countries to be tortured simply because they look like terrorists?

The Patriot Act?

Same Sex Marriages being Restricted?

Invasion of two sovrign nations that were unprovoked?

Having a Super Christian Nut Job as a President for 8 years and screwed everything up all based on his ignorant values?

Yeah.... we'll learn something alright.

If you want to be a part of the US, then move down there yourself and enjoy it.

The moment this country merges into the US is either the day I pickup a weapon or I leave this screwed up place and never return.

I spit at the concept of becoming a citizen of the United States. It might be for some people, but it's sure as hell not for me.

And they may have Obama as president and even I said that'd be a good change for the US, but that's certainly not enough for me to forget everything that the US has done over the years to millions of people and their families.

Screw that!

I see your point.
Thus if you vote Socialist it automatically means your country becomes just like the Khmer Rouge run Democratic Kampuchea and genocide results.

Or perhaps an electoral system is not really to blame for a bad individual leader.

Trex
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
bla bla bla


The USA is in two wars, an economic crisis, has turned into a police state, is rated 18 most corrupt country (compare to Canada at 9th - notice that is twice as corrupt) etc....

And your bragging about it!?!?!

Wow, I have to hand it to the American social programmers anyway - your brain washing is excellent.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
The Canadian system doesn't need to be reformed we need to learn how it works - maybe stop watching so much American TV.

To what end?

What does it matter if we learn how this democracy works? I know how it works.... but our Prime Minister and the Gov. General sure as hell don't.... and since apparently they're the one's calling all the shots, and that my and everybody else's vote which didn't goto the Conservatives no longer counts..... what's the point?

What's the point in learning how it works if those playing in it don't know how it works..... and what's the point in learning about it if we can't do anything about it?

That's what gets my scraficed goat..... we all keep thinking we have some functioning democracy that gives' us all kinds of freedom, blah blah blah..... but when it comes right down to actually listening to the people who voted their asses into power and doing what we want, they turn it into a dictatorship with the illusions of democracy and then lock it down until our wonderful leader get's what he wants.

And speaking of which, did anybody else catch that information that Harper told the Gov. General that if she didn't grant his request, he'd quit? Sure I'd like to see that happen too, but his approach through this whole thing has been nothing but childish, immature and thugish, where he will attempt to make everybody's life as difficult as he "Legally" can until he gets what he wants.

Until there is a way of getting rid of tools like him and the other morons who can't even make a decent home video, there's nothing more to learn from this democracy except that it's a complete sham.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
I love guys like your Praxius. You are just so...all-knowing. Typical NDP granola cruncher lookin' out through the picture window and judging how the neighbor cuts his lawn.

First, like most Canadians, you define yourself by what you are not. You're not American. Good for you. The same can be said for the Swiss. Next....

Second, as not even a middle power anymore, but rather a Lloyd Axworthy, 'soft power' that doesn't have skin in the game Canadians can yap about Gitmo or Vietnam or Iraq or whatever ya want cuz your country is so irrelevant, and so far under the radar--it has no impact at all. Not even a moral impact, because well, there is that no skin in the game concept.

I just think about all those great Canadians in their beautful blue berets watching bodies float down the river in Rwanda. Quite a sight. Or that wonderful move of giving both Pakistan and India the tools to build nuclear weapons. Genius.

Oddly, Canadians like you are more interested in looking out the window than in the mirror. You might want to take a look at yerselves from time to time. Pretty ugly picture.

Which gets me back to the US. You mention Gitmo. We're getting rid of it. That's what grown-ups who have skin in the game do when you make a mistake. You fix it.

Canadians like you love freedom. You're more than willing to watch Amerians die for it all day long. You folks just sit back and let us do the fighting while your government wracks up surpluses. You're kinda like whiny teenagers in a way.

Canadians ignore their mistakes and fix nothing. You always fall back and say, "Well at least we're not like the Americans!" Ya got that right.

And then you mention the guy we sent off to Syria to get tortured. That was wrong.

Hey by the way, what have you PERSONALLY done or said lately to your government about the third-world conditions native people live in up there? Let's see...about half a million people who supposedly get DIRECT subsidies of $6 billion a year...and yet they live in third world poverty and ignorance. Hmmmm....that's a scandal doncha think?

The Patriot Act?
I love it. Compare it to the War Measures Act invoked to catch half a dozen wankers in Quebec I suppose.

Same Sex Marriages being Restricted? Good thing too. You want to give blessings to perversion that kills, that's your business.

"Invasion of two sovrign nations that were unprovoked?"
You mean Afghanistan and Iraq. Uhh...911 ring a bell? By the way there were over forty Canadians who died in the towers that day, but well....to admit that might hurt the feelings of your growing Muslim community up there.

Afghanistan was and is definitely were the action is in getting those 6th Century morons removed from the face of the earth. Unless of course as a good NDP'er you're now going to argue that whipping women who show some ankle or go out into the markets at the wrong time is maybe ok? And doncha just love those honor killings?

As for Iraq...we were lied to. But because we're grown-ups we're getting out. But if you think old Saddam was a great guy, then hey good on ya bud. That'll teach us!

"Having a Super Christian Nut Job as a President for 8 years and screwed everything up all based on his ignorant values?"

I'm no big fan of GW. And I don't feel any need to defend him just because he is my President. We're encouraged to think for ourselves here and have different opinions.

But you comment does get to the intolerance of the tolerant showing itself. Secular atheists like you insist on 'tolerance', yet you have none for people of other view-points. People like you will insist Christians have no right to 'force their views on others'. Instead we should just sit quietly while people sin and happily destroy their lives, the lives of others, and then march off to hell.

You know...they said the same thing to William Wilberforce, who ended slavery, child labor and even cruelty to animals. But I guess you would say those things were okay. Certainly he had no right using his religion to end evil.

"If you want to be a part of the US, then move down there yourself and enjoy it."

Actually, I did. I decided I could wait for Quebec to separate, or separate myself. Quebecers are narrow-minded fascists. I love America. I love Americans. I love the freedom to think and say what I want. I love great healthcare (in Canada I waited three years for gallstone surgery) that includes among other things the use of clotbusters for strokes over the past twenty years. Still 'experimental' up there. By the way, if your DOG needs an MRI, he can get one this afternoon if you'd like down here.

"The moment this country merges into the US is either the day I pickup a weapon or I leave this screwed up place and never return."

So you have a knife and fork then? That'll show us! Hey maybe you could go way north to one of those native reserves to starve like the rest of the folks up there. Or you could consider Switzerland. Nice place. Low taxes. Decentralized government. Multi-lingual even. Great military. Mind you...you'd have to keep a machine gun loaded in your house at all times and serve in the military.

"I spit at the concept of becoming a citizen of the United States. It might be for some people, but it's sure as hell not for me."

Great, so when are you gonna grow-up then and be a real citizen of Canada?

"And they may have Obama as president and even I said that'd be a good change for the US, but that's certainly not enough for me to forget everything that the US has done over the years to millions of people and their families."

Yeah...teaching all those people in Japan and Germany and China and India to play well with others in the sandbox, and then compete against us with our money...that was kinda dumb alright.

You break me up. :) LOL

"Screw that!"

Yup, you are a genius alright. No doubt about it.

^ Perfectly valid statement.
Well written too.
Not to quibble but a spell check would have made it a better read.

You just gotta hate it when people of differing opinion defend their views.

Keep posting.

Trex
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
I love guys like your Praxius. You are just so...all-knowing. Typical NDP granola cruncher lookin' out through the picture window and judging how the neighbor cuts his lawn.

And I love troll boys like you who can't bother to put anything forth except do the exact hypocritical thing you're claiming I am doing and sit there and point your damn finger like your sh*t don't stink.

At least I'm putting out options, what do you got?

Not a damn thing..... get a clue.

And I don't give two licks of a dogs crap how you cut your damn lawn.... let it grow like a field for all I care. That just goes to show just how clueless you really are on where my positions stand.

And I ain't even that supportive of the NDP.... they're just the lesser of all the other morons out there.

Don't like it? Too bad, suck it up princess, cuz I don't give a sh*t.

First, like most Canadians, you define yourself by what you are not. You're not American. Good for you. The same can be said for the Swiss. Next....

And where are you from? I am guessing the US since I must have struck a nerve with what I said in regards to the US..... or maybe you're just one of those typical US Arse lickers who hopes that all his sucking up will get him some place in his miserable life cuz he doesn't know how to do it for himself.

Am I getting warmer? No? Like I care.

I don't define myself by what I am not.... but that doesn't mean I can't be glad I'm not living in the US with the US's way of life in which I don't agree with.

If I wanted to live there, I would have moved there a long time ago.

If you want to take something more out of that, you go right ahead princess.

Second, as not even a middle power anymore, but rather a Lloyd Axworthy, 'soft power' that doesn't have skin in the game Canadians can yap about Gitmo or Vietnam or Iraq or whatever ya want cuz your country is so irrelevant, and so far under the radar--it has no impact at all. Not even a moral impact, because well, there is that no skin in the game concept.

Exactly wtf are you talking about? Or better yet, what are you smoking? What makes you think I care if we're a super power or middle power or a power energy bar for that matter? I yap about Git because we have a Canadian citizen being held there illegally by US Tyrants who just want to make examples out of (if anything) child soldiers..... and he hasn't even been proven to have killed anybody, let alone being a child soldier.

I'll bitch about Vietnam, because it's the same mentality being used today to justify the same actions they have yet to learn from.

We have no impact? Ok then.... we'll just take our troops home and you can fill in the gap with all your well trained boot squad SS troops from Iraq and see how well you can do in the frontlines in Afghanistan where we have been placed since we practically got there...... a place where most of the other NATO forces don't want to go.

Have fun.... enjoy your little war by yourself. I sure as hell never agreed with us going in the first place.

Ignorant.

I just think about all those great Canadians in their beautful blue berets watching bodies float down the river in Rwanda. Quite a sight. Or that wonderful move of giving both Pakistan and India the tools to build nuclear weapons. Genius.

Maybe they might just use them on you sometime, here's hoping.

And if you want to even fathom an attempt on splitting hairs on which country is the most screwed up, ignorant and back stabbing nation that loves to get their grubby fingers into everybody's business..... you best just stop right now and get back onto topic newboy, cuz you clearly don't have a lick of a clue what you're about to get into..... and if you really want to get into it, take it to the Steel Cage.

Oddly, Canadians like you are more interested in looking out the window than in the mirror. You might want to take a look at yerselves from time to time. Pretty ugly picture.

You sure think you know a lot about me don't you? Canadians like me? Well wtf are you?

No wait, let me guess.... you're one of them southern boy'ez frem dem white communities who get'n aller pissn'off when someone doesn't agree wit ya and so ye gather'n up thar whole communitay to get a good ol lynch mob going..... and when someone doesn't liken' thar way you want every other slack jawed youlkle to live, ye get'n all pissy and angry to the point you feel you're all smart and heroic by acting like a little newb troll boy....

or perhaps one of those loser kids in elementary who thinks he's cool because he tags around with the real cool kids and he does what they say, all the while they really think you're a loser and they just really make fun of you behind your back.... .so now you gotta come on the internet and try and act smart to people in another country because everybody else in your own country hates you.

Am I getting warm?

Don't start sh*t you can't finish buddy.

Which gets me back to the US. You mention Gitmo. We're getting rid of it. That's what grown-ups who have skin in the game do when you make a mistake. You fix it.

Ha ha ha..... yeah ok buddy.... you're getting rid of it after how many years of the rest of the world telling you what you're doing is illegal? After how many people you have detained in there were actually innocent victims of your racial profiling?

Oh yeah, you're closing it, so that makes it all better.... we'll just forget about your little detention centre off of US soil to avoid US laws..... we'll just forget about all your other secret detention centres accross the globe that you use for torturing your victims until they confess to whatever you want.... just so you can turn around and say "See! The System Works.... they confessed."

:roll:

What a crock.

No Skin in the game? Wtf do you think life is, a dumbass football game?

We've all heard the whole skin in the game line, right along with the "Stay the Course" line plenty in regards to you guys trying to round up support for Afghanistan..... our idiot leaders decided to follow suit and join up..... we picked the one spot everybody else didn't want to take and we've been there ever since.

And you want to talk about having skin in the game? We got plenty, right up there with the UK, the US and the Dutch (Hats off to them)..... so I have plenty of right to bitch and moan all I please based on your logic.

Get over it.

Canadians like you love freedom. You're more than willing to watch Amerians die for it all day long.

You fk'ers didn't fight or die for my country's freedom, how friggin narcissistic can a person get? You're fighting wars you created for yourselves against people who didn't have anything to do with your WTC towers being attacked, get over yourself.

I have been in the forces, my brother has been in the forces, my father has been in the forces and my cousin is over in Afghanistan right at this very moment..... so don't fk'n sit there with your ignorant views and think you're all king sh*t and the heroes of the world, cuz you're sure as hell not.

I'm willing to watch you americans die all day long until you guys learn from your own dumbass mistakes..... which clearly you haven't yet..... keep it up then.... keep thinking you're doing yourselves and the world good. :roll:

Did you serve in your own military at any paticular time or are you just trying to puff your chest out like a big shot by listing off other people's actions?

Yeah I thought so.... way to be there troll.

You folks just sit back and let us do the fighting while your government wracks up surpluses. You're kinda like whiny teenagers in a way.

And you're so isolated in your own country's propaganda, you've become so ignorant on what's really going on.... the more you open your mouth the more foolish you end up sounding.

Oh but I guess that is to be expected once you hear that someone isn't all that appreciative of the offer to have your military come and "Liberate" us.

You guys already tried that back in the 1800's and we pushed you all the way back to washington, burned down your white house, burned down a bunch of other things I couldn't really care about.... and then we left. At that time you guys thought we'd welcome you as saviros and liborators back then too..... Guess you guessed wrong on that one..... my how the times don't seem to change.

Try it again..... do it.... I'd love to see you guys try it again. You'd end up losing a lot more in the end then we would.

Hell, you guys can't even handle some insurgents in the desert..... you expect me to think you can handle a military force with better training and equal technology right on your border?

Right. :roll:

And don't take that the wrong way, I don't believe we'd defeat your nation, nor would we really care to..... but I do know that you'd be stuck in yet another dumb ass move based on emotional propaganda and no justification except to make yourselves feel justified in your omnipotence.

The sad thing is that you're country is also on the verge of going down the drain.... and yet the attitude that has created it still exists.

Oh well.... have fun.

Canadians ignore their mistakes and fix nothing.

Do you remember saying something about a mirror? :roll: You seriously need to get an education and learn a bit about the world outside of your borders..... this is just getting sad.

You always fall back and say, "Well at least we're not like the Americans!" Ya got that right.

Thanks.... I figured you'd agree with something smart eventually. :p

And then you mention the guy we sent off to Syria to get tortured. That was wrong.

Yeah? How come he is still waiting to hear an actual apology from your government who sent him there? How come he's still on your terror watch list?

Well?

You sure have a lot to talk about, but very little substance to back any of it up.... typical. If you guys accept that what you are doing is wrong, then how about you finally take some damn action and correct them?

Oh and he's not the only one who's been sent off and tortured at the hands of the US.

Hey by the way, what have you PERSONALLY done or said lately to your government about the third-world conditions native people live in up there?

How about you get off your lazy ass and go look for it?

As if your country is one to talk in regards to the treatment of the natives..... friggin hypocritical to the core you sure are.... cripes.

Let's see...about half a million people who supposedly get DIRECT subsidies of $6 billion a year...and yet they live in third world poverty and ignorance. Hmmmm....that's a scandal doncha think?

Yup, and I have attempted to address this countless times in the past, I talk about it on a number of occasions here in these forums as well. I voice myself any chance I get.

Oh and newsflash.... I have native herritage in my family and my blood you dip sh*t, so yes, I am completely aware of the problems facing natives and other issues in this country. I accept our issues and our problems and I do what I can to help fix or bring awareness to them. I don't need some fool from accross the border who doesn't have a clue on what's really going on or who I am to tell me right and wrong.

Once again, shows what you know.

Ignorant.

The Patriot Act?
I love it. Compare it to the War Measures Act invoked to catch half a dozen wankers in Quebec I suppose.

Same Sex Marriages being Restricted? Good thing too. You want to give blessings to perversion that kills, that's your business.

wow.... now that had to be the dumbest statement I've read in a long time. Once again.... if I don't relate or agree with your country's mentality, then why the hell would I want to join it?

Come on.... put two and two together to make four and what do you get?

One extra finger pointing straight up and in your general direction.

"Invasion of two sovrign nations that were unprovoked?"
You mean Afghanistan and Iraq. Uhh...911 ring a bell?

Yup, and that topic has already been talked to death in here... you want to get on a debate on how Osama wasn't even in Afghanistan and the Taliban never sanctioned the attack and all that other crap.... join one of those threads.

It's suprising that you guys would elect Obama and reject the same old government with the same old lies..... and yet still believe many of the lies.

Sad.... so sad.

By the way there were over forty Canadians who died in the towers that day, but well....to admit that might hurt the feelings of your growing Muslim community up there.

Oh, I never knew some Canadians died as well.... wow, that's really news to me :roll:

I have no issue wanting to find the people who created that attack, but I'm not an idiot to just jump when and wherever you guys point as the next distraction without any solid and factual evidence linking.

But then again, it's easy to get you guys all riled up and ready to blow stuff up without thinking.... just look at how you've responded so far in this thread.

Oh.... and from your above statement, I take it you expect me to have a hate on for Muslims because a group of them got sick and tired of your country's meddling in their lives where it was not wanted?

Sounds like the norm for you guys.

But that's ok..... if you want to blame all the muslims for your poor suffering, then I guess it's only fair to blame all Americans for the BS we've all been living in around the world for the last 8 or so years.

But then I don't expect you to catch on to the connection there, so we'll move on.

Afghanistan was and is definitely were the action is in getting those 6th Century morons removed from the face of the earth. Unless of course as a good NDP'er you're now going to argue that whipping women who show some ankle or go out into the markets at the wrong time is maybe ok? And doncha just love those honor killings?

You're examples are lame, coming from a guy in a country that still executes.

You want to know the real kicker? It's not your damn place to go around and dictate to everyone how to live.

Maybe when you guys fix your own sh*t, remove all your ghettos, gangstas, crazy religious nut cults, racism, poverity and all that other crap..... maybe then I and everybody else will take you guys seriously.

Until then, you're no better then anybody else in this world, so get off your almighty high horse and take a look around reality, because very few people give a sh*t about your country anymore..... and it's because of attitudes like yours that they don't.

Deal with it.

As for Iraq...we were lied to. But because we're grown-ups we're getting out. But if you think old Saddam was a great guy, then hey good on ya bud. That'll teach us!

Oh yeah, you're getting out..... just as soon as you guys can secure that oil you came for and rape the country of all of it's surplus resources..... oh and to make sure things look sorta stable, so once again, you can tell the world "See, this is why we did it.... we didn't know wtf we did it originally, but this is the reason why we displaced millions, killed hundreds of thousands, destabilized an entire sovrign and passive nation and planted weapons and tools on civilians to cover our asses."

Yeah, you guys sure are making a difference and really learning from your mistakes. :roll: Jeez....

I suppose you never even bothered to look up or ask any Iraqi's what they think of everything over there? Most of them claim they prayed for the days when Saddam was still in power.... at least then they could walk down the streets, goto work and be with their families without having to worry about getting blown up or shot by forigners.

Do I think it's better that Saddam is gone?

My opinion is irrelevent because he was not my leader or my country..... go ask those whom it truly matters to..... oh, but that's such a wild concept.... ask people what they need, don't tell them what they need.... now why didn't you think of that earlier?

I wonder.

"Having a Super Christian Nut Job as a President for 8 years and screwed everything up all based on his ignorant values?"

I'm no big fan of GW. And I don't feel any need to defend him just because he is my President. We're encouraged to think for ourselves here and have different opinions.

Fair enough, as I have my own differing opinions. Harper is my Prime Minister, even though I never voted for him.... but I can still call him a two-faced douche bag lying arse pucker if I like..... to each their own.

But you comment does get to the intolerance of the tolerant showing itself. Secular atheists like you insist on 'tolerance', yet you have none for people of other view-points.

See, there you go with your ignorance again, thinking I'm an athiest because I used the term Super Christian. *tisk tisk*

People like you will insist Christians have no right to 'force their views on others'. Instead we should just sit quietly while people sin and happily destroy their lives, the lives of others, and then march off to hell.

Exactly... if you have two clues about what Christianity was originally all about, you would have known that Jesus's teachings explicitly explained that you don't force your views and ways onto others, you let them come to you when they are ready. Indeed.... you sit on your ass and be quiet.

Oh but that doesn't work for your christian conquest.

But since you're going completely away from your actual teachings and think it's your duty to force and oppress the world into doing what you think they should, who's the ones who are really going to hell?

I don't need lunatics like you trying to save me from hell.... if I'm going to hell based on my lifestyle and my actions I take, then so be it..... I don't need you coming around and trying to tell me how to live.... I already have people do that in my lives and they're called my parents....

You're not my dad and you're not my mom..... try and force your ways onto me and see how far you get.

If I have to spend the rest of my life up in the clouds with a bunch of oppressive crazies, I'll choose hell thanks.

You know...they said the same thing to William Wilberforce, who ended slavery, child labor and even cruelty to animals. But I guess you would say those things were okay. Certainly he had no right using his religion to end evil.

Religion doesn't remove evil, people remove evil. Religion is not the basis of morality and it never was.

Don't forget that your wonderful religion is just a pass off of the Greek Religion (Mythology) with such things as Halos, Angels, Gods living in the coulds and bad guys living in a firey pit of flames underground......

Now if Christianity was a leech off of something that is considered a Mythology these days, then what does that tell you about Christianity?

Your religion is not anymore right then any other religion out there and everybody who lives in a "FREE SOCIETY" should have the right to choose their religion and how they wish to live.

"If you want to be a part of the US, then move down there yourself and enjoy it."

Actually, I did. I decided I could wait for Quebec to separate, or separate myself. Quebecers are narrow-minded fascists. I love America. I love Americans.

Good for you, enjoy it. Who am I to argue. So long as you keep that life down there, I don't care what you do.

I love the freedom to think and say what I want.

And what have I been doing this whole post?

I love great healthcare (in Canada I waited three years for gallstone surgery)

Yeah and I've heard plenty about the healthcare in the US, and how the life expectancy of Americans is a lot lower then our own. I may have to wait for a while for certain operations, but at least I'm going to get the operation.... if you don't have the money or you got a hack of a private health coverage plan down in the US (That calls things they don't like Experimental) then you're screwed arn't you?

Either that or you're in debt for the rest of your short life.

that includes among other things the use of clotbusters for strokes over the past twenty years. Still 'experimental' up there.

And very common operations/procedures that are acceptable everywhere else in the world that cost too much are called experimental down there in the US..... and many end up suffering because their medical coverage won't cover the costs.

Great example.

By the way, if your DOG needs an MRI, he can get one this afternoon if you'd like down here.

Like any of my animals ever really needed an MRI. Oh and there are a few clinics around here in Canada which do that.... seen it not too long ago on the news, go figure.

"The moment this country merges into the US is either the day I pickup a weapon or I leave this screwed up place and never return."

So you have a knife and fork then? That'll show us! Hey maybe you could go way north to one of those native reserves to starve like the rest of the folks up there. Or you could consider Switzerland. Nice place. Low taxes. Decentralized government. Multi-lingual even. Great military. Mind you...you'd have to keep a machine gun loaded in your house at all times and serve in the military.

So no more different then the US where every house has their own weapons cache in the basement.... cuz you never know when the King of England will come around to take over again :roll:

Got anything else trollish to say?

"I spit at the concept of becoming a citizen of the United States. It might be for some people, but it's sure as hell not for me."

Great, so when are you gonna grow-up then and be a real citizen of Canada?

:-? Someone who runs away from Canada to go live in the US is going to sit there and ask me when I'm going to be a real citizen of my country?

You're one screwed up puppy you know that?

"Screw that!"

Yup, you are a genius alright. No doubt about it.

More of a genius then some it would seem.... now that you had your little piss stint and you got a response, how about you get back on topic.

I will not be entertaining this level of trolling in this thread after this post..... Get back on topic and contribute something relating to it or simply leave the thread/topic if you have nothing worthwhile to say.
 
Last edited:

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
^ Perfectly valid statement.
Well written too.
Not to quibble but a spell check would have made it a better read.

You just gotta hate it when people of differing opinion defend their views.

Keep posting.

Trex

Is that supposed to be sarcasm?

I don't hate it when people defend their differing opinions.... that's everybody's right to do.

But somehow someone who defends their point of view such as myself is in the wrong?

What a joke.