Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,868 
April 24th, 2008, 12:39 PM
Quoting I think not
I care because it is partly my taxes that pay for this. I'm glad we are doing something.. Do other countries do this as well? Does America?
You're right of course, then again you weren't on the receiving end of the check so why would you give a flying phuck how much it is.
April 24th, 2008, 01:06 PM
The first result I got while looking up the american standard for similar things.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/26/iraq.usa
The first result I got while looking up the american standard for similar things.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/26/iraq.usa
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,898
Location: in town
Location: in town
April 24th, 2008, 01:06 PM
Quoting EagleSmack
It only looks like a goat, but it is a sheep, without the wool.
I especially like the picture of Captain Kent giving a family a goat in payment for the death of a loved one! A GOAT!
"Sorry we iced your son...please accept this goat on behalf of the people of Canada."
"Sorry we iced your son...please accept this goat on behalf of the people of Canada."
Quote:
We Canadians are not as cheap as some others, you know.
The sheep was one of several items given to a Kandahar family in compensation for their son’s killing by coalition troops.
World Police
Posts: 4,488
Videos: 1
Location: toranna
Videos: 1
Location: toranna
April 24th, 2008, 01:16 PM
yeah, Canada is so generous. "Sorry about your leg, here is $1500, forget it happened because we admit no liabality anyways."
yeah, Canada is so generous. "Sorry about your leg, here is $1500, forget it happened because we admit no liabality anyways."
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,898
Location: in town
Location: in town
April 24th, 2008, 01:17 PM
Oops, Oops... I didn't see your link, Karrie!!
Hallo, Eagle, I apologize and take everything back and state the opposite: You Americans are super guys - you pay generously in cash (no goats or sheep!) for every stray bullet!!
I'm truly impressed!
Oops, Oops... I didn't see your link, Karrie!!
Hallo, Eagle, I apologize and take everything back and state the opposite: You Americans are super guys - you pay generously in cash (no goats or sheep!) for every stray bullet!!
I'm truly impressed!
Don't bother arguing, I KNOW!
Posts: 10,485
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
April 24th, 2008, 01:18 PM
Quoting #juan
I care because it is partly my taxes that pay for this. I'm glad we are doing something.. Do other countries do this as well? Does America?
Quoting karrie
And now you are absolved from all wrong doing because other countries especially Americans do the same thing. Your morals are nothing to be envied.
The first result I got while looking up the american standard for similar things.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/26/iraq.usa
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/26/iraq.usa
Jerk Extraordinaire
Posts: 2,909
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
April 24th, 2008, 01:21 PM
[quote=karrie;946759]The first result I got while looking up the american standard for similar things......[/quote]
"The US military has paid out $1.5m (£907,000) to Iraqi civilians in response to a wave of negligence and wrongful death claims filed against American soldiers, the Guardian has learned.
Families have come forward with accounts of how American soldiers shot dead or seriously wounded unarmed Iraqi civilians with no apparent cause. In many cases their stories are confirmed by Iraqi police investigations."
And also confirmed here by fellow US Soldiers:
US: Vets Break Silence on War Crimes
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ne...lence-war.html
Back to the original link by Karrie:
"Commanders make payments from their discretionary funds, rarely even admitting liability. Payouts average just a few hundred dollars and in some cases families have been asked to sign forms waiving their right to press for further compensation. In one area of south-western Baghdad, controlled by the 82nd Airborne Division, an officer said a total of $106,000 had been paid out to 176 claimants since July.
Beyond the initial payments there is little recourse for the families of the dead. No American soldier has been prosecuted for illegally killing an Iraqi civilian and commanders refuse even to count the number of civilians killed or injured by their soldiers."
Wow, that just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.....
"Human Rights Watch concluded that US troops were operating "with impunity. The individual cases of civilian deaths... reveal a pattern by US forces of over-aggressive tactics, indiscriminate shooting in residential areas and a quick reliance on lethal force", Human Rights Watch said. "The lack of timely and thorough investigations into many questionable incidents has created an atmosphere of impunity, in which many soldiers feel they can pull the trigger without coming under review."
And if anybody is interesting in further details in some of those cases, by all means, check the above link I supplied.
{Name Edit - Wrong person} I Think Not, I find it quite funny that you'd try and poke fun at $9,000 being given to civilians for compensation when Karrie's link claims Iraqi's only get a couple hundred bucks from the US for their actions and have to sign a waiver..... you're sure in a place to be talking about petty compensations.
[quote=karrie;946759]The first result I got while looking up the american standard for similar things......[/quote]
"The US military has paid out $1.5m (£907,000) to Iraqi civilians in response to a wave of negligence and wrongful death claims filed against American soldiers, the Guardian has learned.
Families have come forward with accounts of how American soldiers shot dead or seriously wounded unarmed Iraqi civilians with no apparent cause. In many cases their stories are confirmed by Iraqi police investigations."
And also confirmed here by fellow US Soldiers:
US: Vets Break Silence on War Crimes
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ne...lence-war.html
Back to the original link by Karrie:
"Commanders make payments from their discretionary funds, rarely even admitting liability. Payouts average just a few hundred dollars and in some cases families have been asked to sign forms waiving their right to press for further compensation. In one area of south-western Baghdad, controlled by the 82nd Airborne Division, an officer said a total of $106,000 had been paid out to 176 claimants since July.
Beyond the initial payments there is little recourse for the families of the dead. No American soldier has been prosecuted for illegally killing an Iraqi civilian and commanders refuse even to count the number of civilians killed or injured by their soldiers."
Wow, that just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.....
"Human Rights Watch concluded that US troops were operating "with impunity. The individual cases of civilian deaths... reveal a pattern by US forces of over-aggressive tactics, indiscriminate shooting in residential areas and a quick reliance on lethal force", Human Rights Watch said. "The lack of timely and thorough investigations into many questionable incidents has created an atmosphere of impunity, in which many soldiers feel they can pull the trigger without coming under review."
And if anybody is interesting in further details in some of those cases, by all means, check the above link I supplied.
{Name Edit - Wrong person} I Think Not, I find it quite funny that you'd try and poke fun at $9,000 being given to civilians for compensation when Karrie's link claims Iraqi's only get a couple hundred bucks from the US for their actions and have to sign a waiver..... you're sure in a place to be talking about petty compensations.
April 24th, 2008, 01:27 PM
When in history have countries ever paid for loss of life in wars ITN? If you want to come on and mock Canada for doing so, then perhaps you ought to be aware that your country does the same. Is it okay? Does it change anything? Perhaps those are the questions to ask rather than the typical, predictable, Canada vs. US tripe.
You commented that the price of life is now set at $9000. Is it preferable to have it set at 0? To have it set at mere hundreds by discretion of the CO? Is it preferable to hand out cash to people who have nothing to spend it on? Or to return to the house with things that might actually make a difference for them? I know it all seems so distasteful, but, if it's deemed necessary that these wars be fought, then what's the proper, humane way, to deal with the loss of life that results?
Quoting I think not
And now you are absolved from all wrong doing because other countries especially Americans do the same thing. Your morals are nothing to be envied.
When in history have countries ever paid for loss of life in wars ITN? If you want to come on and mock Canada for doing so, then perhaps you ought to be aware that your country does the same. Is it okay? Does it change anything? Perhaps those are the questions to ask rather than the typical, predictable, Canada vs. US tripe.
You commented that the price of life is now set at $9000. Is it preferable to have it set at 0? To have it set at mere hundreds by discretion of the CO? Is it preferable to hand out cash to people who have nothing to spend it on? Or to return to the house with things that might actually make a difference for them? I know it all seems so distasteful, but, if it's deemed necessary that these wars be fought, then what's the proper, humane way, to deal with the loss of life that results?
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,868
April 24th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Quote:
My morals have nothing to do with this. You seem to be chiding us for giving only a measly $9,000.00 per person when America the wonderful seems to give only a few hundred. Of course it should be cheaper when you buy in large quantities.
Quoting I think not And now you are absolved from all wrong doing because other countries especially Americans do the same thing. Your morals are nothing to be envied.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,944
Location: USA
Location: USA
April 24th, 2008, 01:53 PM
Quoting #juan
They said there were some other items as well! Pottery and cooking utensils?
Hey Eagle....Surely it was a goat as well as $8,000.00.......I wonder where Captain Kent got the goat.....
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,944
Location: USA
Location: USA
April 24th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Quoting Praxius
{Name Edit - Wrong person} I Think Not, I find it quite funny that you'd try and poke fun at $9,000 being given to civilians for compensation when Karrie's link claims Iraqi's only get a couple hundred bucks from the US for their actions and have to sign a waiver..... you're sure in a place to be talking about petty compensations.
In all fairness the article doesn't specify what "the few hundred bucks" are given for. Just like the Canadian article states that Afghan civillians are compensated for lost or destroyed property by Canadians which I am sure it is not to the tune of $9K per incident. I am sure when a death occurs the payment is in line with the Canadian buy out...minus the goat. But I could see a few hundred bucks being given out for a busted door.
{Name Edit - Wrong person} I Think Not, I find it quite funny that you'd try and poke fun at $9,000 being given to civilians for compensation when Karrie's link claims Iraqi's only get a couple hundred bucks from the US for their actions and have to sign a waiver..... you're sure in a place to be talking about petty compensations.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,944
Location: USA
Location: USA
April 24th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Here is a snipet of the article...
The US military has paid out $1.5m (£907,000) to Iraqi civilians in response to a wave of negligence and wrongful death claims filed against American soldiers, the Guardian has learned.
Families have come forward with accounts of how American soldiers shot dead or seriously wounded unarmed Iraqi civilians with no apparent cause. In many cases their stories are confirmed by Iraqi police investigations.
Yesterday the US military in Baghdad admitted a total of $1,540,050 has been paid out up to November 12 for personal injury, death or damage to property. A total of 10,402 claims had been filed, the military said in a brief statement to the Guardian. There were no figures given for how many claims had been accepted.
"The US pays claims for personal injury, wrongful death and property damage," it said. "Payments will only be made for non-combat related activities and instances where soldiers have acted negligently or wrongfully."
Commanders make payments from their discretionary funds, rarely even admitting liability. Payouts average just a few hundred dollars and in some cases families have been asked to sign forms waiving their right to press for further compensation. In one area of south-western Baghdad, controlled by the 82nd Airborne Division, an officer said a total of $106,000 had been paid out to 176 claimants since July.
So you see it does not state that we only give out a couple hundred for wrongful deaths.
Here is a snipet of the article...
The US military has paid out $1.5m (£907,000) to Iraqi civilians in response to a wave of negligence and wrongful death claims filed against American soldiers, the Guardian has learned.
Families have come forward with accounts of how American soldiers shot dead or seriously wounded unarmed Iraqi civilians with no apparent cause. In many cases their stories are confirmed by Iraqi police investigations.
Yesterday the US military in Baghdad admitted a total of $1,540,050 has been paid out up to November 12 for personal injury, death or damage to property. A total of 10,402 claims had been filed, the military said in a brief statement to the Guardian. There were no figures given for how many claims had been accepted.
"The US pays claims for personal injury, wrongful death and property damage," it said. "Payments will only be made for non-combat related activities and instances where soldiers have acted negligently or wrongfully."
Commanders make payments from their discretionary funds, rarely even admitting liability. Payouts average just a few hundred dollars and in some cases families have been asked to sign forms waiving their right to press for further compensation. In one area of south-western Baghdad, controlled by the 82nd Airborne Division, an officer said a total of $106,000 had been paid out to 176 claimants since July.
So you see it does not state that we only give out a couple hundred for wrongful deaths.
Gobsmacked
Posts: 4,735
April 24th, 2008, 02:11 PM
I'm trying to put your comment into context of this discussion, and I can't seem to connect the dots - how does an attempt to compensate - however paltry - equate with poor morals?
In relation to our society, a goat and a few bucks in exchange for a life lost does seem a bit crass, but considering the circumstances there - if the lost relative was in some way a contributor to the family earnings, a goat and a few bucks is little more than a gesture, but it at least conveys a message of respect and recognition of their loss.
How does this translate into poor morals for you? Are you concerned that we're not doing enough, or that our attempts are too measly and therefore an insult?
Quoting I think not
huh?
And now you are absolved from all wrong doing because other countries especially Americans do the same thing. Your morals are nothing to be envied.
I'm trying to put your comment into context of this discussion, and I can't seem to connect the dots - how does an attempt to compensate - however paltry - equate with poor morals?
In relation to our society, a goat and a few bucks in exchange for a life lost does seem a bit crass, but considering the circumstances there - if the lost relative was in some way a contributor to the family earnings, a goat and a few bucks is little more than a gesture, but it at least conveys a message of respect and recognition of their loss.
How does this translate into poor morals for you? Are you concerned that we're not doing enough, or that our attempts are too measly and therefore an insult?
Bright Spark
Posts: 300
Location: Edmonton
Location: Edmonton
April 24th, 2008, 02:12 PM
How much for the psychological damage? What's the price for a frightened child who can't sleep at night? You're all tossing around dollar figures as if it justifies bombing the crap out of some poor schmucks home. I'm sure the Iraqis and the Afghanis would rather keep their homes and their loved ones intact and send the foreign troups with their bribe money far across the ocean.
How much for the psychological damage? What's the price for a frightened child who can't sleep at night? You're all tossing around dollar figures as if it justifies bombing the crap out of some poor schmucks home. I'm sure the Iraqis and the Afghanis would rather keep their homes and their loved ones intact and send the foreign troups with their bribe money far across the ocean.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,868
April 24th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Quoting EagleSmack
I'm sure you are right. The eight grand is the standard payout for the death of a family member. I still wonder where we got that goat.......Is it a Canadian goat?.........
In all fairness the article doesn't specify what "the few hundred bucks" are given for. Just like the Canadian article states that Afghan civillians are compensated for lost or destroyed property by Canadians which I am sure it is not to the tune of $9K per incident. I am sure when a death occurs the payment is in line with the Canadian buy out...minus the goat. But I could see a few hundred bucks being given out for a busted door.
World Police
Posts: 4,488
Videos: 1
Location: toranna
Videos: 1
Location: toranna
April 24th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Quoting #juan
We should go all out and give them some Canadian bred mountain goats.
I'm sure you are right. The eight grand is the standard payout for the death of a family member. I still wonder where we got that goat.......Is it a Canadian goat?.........
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,944
Location: USA
Location: USA
April 24th, 2008, 02:43 PM
Maybe it is a culture thing and the goat should be delivered by a tribal leader or equivalent thereof.
Quoting #juan
And what is a Captain doing walking a goat. Isn't that what Privates and Lance Corporals are for?
I'm sure you are right. The eight grand is the standard payout for the death of a family member. I still wonder where we got that goat.......Is it a Canadian goat?.........
Maybe it is a culture thing and the goat should be delivered by a tribal leader or equivalent thereof.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,868
April 24th, 2008, 03:04 PM
Quoting EagleSmack
You could be right, but maybe the captain just knew the most Afghani words...
And what is a Captain doing walking a goat. Isn't that what Privates and Lance Corporals are for?
Exactly. Particularly Lance Corporals......In basic training years ago, we had a an especially snotty corporal
Maybe it is a culture thing and the goat should be delivered by a tribal leader or equivalent thereof.
Exactly. Particularly Lance Corporals......In basic training years ago, we had a an especially snotty corporal
Maybe it is a culture thing and the goat should be delivered by a tribal leader or equivalent thereof.
