Canada won't oppose death penalty..

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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What does everyone think of Canada taking the position of not opposing the death penalty for Canadians sentenced in democratically elected countries?

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/national/071101/n110199A.html

I personally am glad that we won't be spending taxpayer money on defending people who commit the worst of crimes. The opposition doesn't usually amount to anything anyway except a public expense. If Canadians don't want to be sentenced to death elsewhere I suggest they don't get themselves into that position in the first place.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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I think very few things pertaining to the law should be governed by a blanket statement like that of "we won't oppose a sentence in any democratic country."

I think any Canadian citizen being sentenced in a foreign country ought to warrant a review by our own country, and a decision at THAT time as to whether or not we agree or will object or intervene in some fashion.

To clarify, I think it's a good baseline... but it shouldn't eliminate intervention if a situation calls for it.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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As for someone in the US, they'll get a minimum of 10 years to convince someone they shouldn't be put to death. That person will have committed a horrible crime and they will have an opportunity to defend themselves. Seems fair to me. Why spend our money on it?
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
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I think very few things pertaining to the law should be governed by a blanket statement like that of "we won't oppose a sentence in any democratic country."

I think any Canadian citizen being sentenced in a foreign country ought to warrant a review by our own country, and a decision at THAT time as to whether or not we agree or will object or intervene in some fashion.

To clarify, I think it's a good baseline... but it shouldn't eliminate intervention if a situation calls for it.

I agree Karrie,
My biggest concern would be was their a fair trial. My secondary concern is was the sentence reasonable given the crime. Aside from that I will let others argue about the pros and cons of the death penalty because my concern kind of fades at this point.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Don't they give fair trials in most democratically elected countries? Certainly one will get a fair trial in the US, and if they don't they can appeal it.
 

s243a

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Mar 9, 2007
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Don't they give fair trials in most democratically elected countries? Certainly one will get a fair trial in the US, and if they don't they can appeal it.

Still, it might not hurt to review the trials of greatest concern.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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That person will have committed a horrible crime and they will have an opportunity to defend themselves. Seems fair to me. Why spend our money on it?

That's where I don't trust using a blanket statement like that one. You're assuming that a democratically elected country will have a legal system with appropriate sentencing, and fair trials. That's not necessarily going to hold true in every last democratic nation in the world. I'd want that reviewed for our citizens before we decide to wash our hands of a death penalty abroad.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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But we're assuming that we have a lock on what is a fair trial. A trial system of a democratically elected country is fair in the eyes of its citizens, who are affected by the criminal's actions. What fair to them is more important than what's fair to us.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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But we're assuming that we have a lock on what is a fair trial. A trial system of a democratically elected country is fair in the eyes of its citizens, who are affected by the criminal's actions. What fair to them is more important than what's fair to us.

has every last democratically elected government in the world reflected at all times in its existence the will of its people?
 

Kreskin

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Feb 23, 2006
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has every last democratically elected government in the world reflected at all times in its existence the will of its people?
As best as possible, yes. Generally court systems are pretty strong in democracies. They're usually pretty structured and independent of the elected dictators.
 

s243a

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Mar 9, 2007
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As best as possible, yes. Generally court systems are pretty strong in democracies. They're usually pretty structured and independent of the elected dictators.
Cuba claims to be a democracy. For this reason I have trouble with such blanket statements.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
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But we're assuming that we have a lock on what is a fair trial. A trial system of a democratically elected country is fair in the eyes of its citizens, who are affected by the criminal's actions. What fair to them is more important than what's fair to us.

I believe that if someone is a Canadian citizen that the government should look out for the right of those citizens. I don’t see it as an issue of which is more fair I see it as an issue of the government acting on behalf of it’s citizens.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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If I recall correctly from my history lessons, the past has seen democracies bring people like Hitler into power, and with them, new sets of laws. That's why I don't mind the baseline rule of making our citizens subject to the laws of the countries they are in, but, I would still want any sentence reviewed.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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I would much rather use the rule, if you don't want the death penalty in (fill in the blank) don't go there and murder someone. And if you neglect the rule don't come back to us looking for support.
 

s243a

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Mar 9, 2007
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I have not seen that claim. I don't think we recognize them as such, do we?


No we don’t recognize them as such but I bet at least half the people on this board recognize Venezuela and Russia as a democracy. I would still call Russia a democracy but Putin has eroded the freedoms of the nation. Even in the US I think there are questions about the rights of the accused. Look at legislation like the patriot act. How many Canadian citizens right now could be illegally detained without the Canadian government being aware that they were detained and aware of the charges against them.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
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I would much rather use the rule, if you don't want the death penalty in (fill in the blank) don't go there and murder someone. And if you neglect the rule don't come back to us looking for support.

You are assuming guilt and you are assuming that the death penalty was the penalty for murder. In the case of Singapore someone could be facing the death penalty because someone placed drugs in their luggage without their knowledge. I agree that people need to take responsibility for their actions and there is a limited amount that the Canadian government can do. This does not mean though that we should never try to persuade the country to extradite instead of terminate the individual.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Don't they give fair trials in most democratically elected countries? Certainly one will get a fair trial in the US, and if they don't they can appeal it.
Ah, not necessarily Kreskin. I point to the OJ mishap. Money speaks and race is an issue, always.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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I believe that if someone is a Canadian citizen that the government should look out for the right of those citizens. I don’t see it as an issue of which is more fair I see it as an issue of the government acting on behalf of it’s citizens.
Agreed. And with Karrie's points as well. As a Canadian we must protect our own as should all other democratic nations.

Am I a bit paranoid? Yes. Look at that guy that we deported to the States as a potential terrorist. They tortured him. They were wrong. So now, we are going pay out huge dollars. And rightly so.