NDP MP writes law to ban ATM fees

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
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Leiden, the Netherlands
NDP MP writes law to ban ATM fees



Wasylycia-Leis will challenge Conservatives and the big banks to support it

OTTAWA – In advance of meeting with Canada’s big banks, NDP MP Judy Wasylycia-Leis announced a proposed law that would effectively ban ATM fees in Canada.

“This isn’t a complicated piece of legislation. It’s a simple fix to a problem facing ordinary Canadians,” said Wasylycia-Leis. “This bill would ban bank fees at ATMs.”

The bill will amend the Bank Act to prohibit banks from charging for the electronic transfer of funds or account information through automated banking machines.

“The Finance Minister has admitted he has the power to put an end to bank fee gouging but refuses to do so,” says Wasylycia-Leis. “He’s been sitting on the fence. This will let Canadians know which side of that fence he’s really on.”

Wasylycia-Leis says ordinary Canadians can’t afford to subsidize banks with ‘loyalty’ fees or ‘convenience’ fees.

“The banks continue to save millions of dollars through reduced personal branch services, yet fees continue to rise and costs are passed on to finance exorbitant profits,” says Wasylycia-Leis. “These fees amount to only 0.2 per cent of bank income.”

Wasylycia-Leis says the banks’ arguments of competition fall flat.

“When the banks introduced automated teller machines they were free. As the bank machines increased in popularity the banks laid off tellers,” said Wasylycia-Leis. “Bank hours are now shorter. Bank branches are closing in countless communities and being replaced by cash gouging machines. The banks claim they are trying to compete. All evidence suggests they simply don’t want to loose the easy revenue they collect by nickel-and-diming regular Canadians.”

Wasylycia-Leis plans to challenge the banks to tell the committee how much they make from ATMs and will push MPs on the committee to support her Private Member’s Bill.


» An Act to amend the Bank Act (automated banking machine charges)
» End ATM Fees Action Centre
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
I'm all for banks being banned from charging ATM servive fee's. I'm hopeful that this bill will gain some traction.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Once again, I think that fees should be banned........when one is using a banking machine owned by their own bank. In other words, I should not have to pay a service fee to access my RBC accounts at an RBC machine.

However, I think it is unreasonable to expect to access my RBC account through a Scotia machine or a white label machine without paying a service charge. Why should one bank provide support and service to another bank's customers for free?
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
I just don't get it. You aren't required to use an ATM. You can use your own banks' atm. There are many ways to do your banking without paying atm fees.
What's the bloody problem?
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
I just don't get it. You aren't required to use an ATM. You can use your own banks' atm. There are many ways to do your banking without paying atm fees.
What's the bloody problem?

Paying 5 dollars to take out 20.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
If bank A customer uses bank B machine at no cost there is risk that even less ATM machines become available. ATM machines are expensive equipment. Providing them to non-customers out of the goodness of their hearts isn't a rational business strategy. The same principle applies to white machines. That's their only source of revenue and reason to be in business. If the market can't create it's own business model chances are less machines will be available..probably more white machines that aren't affected by the legislation. The end result becomes more red tape and no change to the real cost to customers. Perhaps more.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
I just don't get it. You aren't required to use an ATM. You can use your own banks' atm. There are many ways to do your banking without paying atm fees.
What's the bloody problem?

Even if you use your banks ATM's you can still be charges fee's TenPenny. For example, here are the charges you will incur if you have a standard savings account with TD.

  • two free debit transactions* each month; additional debits are $1.25 each. Additional fees, including bill payments, transfers set up on a bill payment profile and Interac Direct Payment purchases (IDP) are $1.25 plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • Interac ABM withdrawals are $1.50 plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • PLUS system withdrawal fee inside U.S. and Mexico are $3.00 each, plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • PLUS system withdrawal fee outside Canada, U.S. and Mexico are $5.00 each, plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • maintain a minimum monthly balance of $25,000** and all fees are waived (except Plus system fees)
  • free paperless record keeping option regardless of monthly balance
  • $1.00 monthly record keeping fee for statement or passbook is waived if minimum monthly balance of $500** is maintained
  • earn daily interest at competitive rates that grow with your balance***
  • convenient Direct Deposit
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
...However, I think it is unreasonable to expect to access my RBC account through a Scotia machine or a white label machine without paying a service charge. Why should one bank provide support and service to another bank's customers for free?

I agree. My main account pays a small fee up front for all own-bank transactions. Considering how much I pound on it I think I get my money's worth.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
The fact that you have CHOSEN to deal with a bank that charges you high fees should not require the government to pass a law to protect you.
That's my complaint. People have options, but refuse to use them, and then want the government to look after them. Pitiful.

Even if you use your banks ATM's you can still be charges fee's TenPenny. For example, here are the charges you will incur if you have a standard savings account with TD.
  • two free debit transactions* each month; additional debits are $1.25 each. Additional fees, including bill payments, transfers set up on a bill payment profile and Interac Direct Payment purchases (IDP) are $1.25 plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • Interac ABM withdrawals are $1.50 plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • PLUS system withdrawal fee inside U.S. and Mexico are $3.00 each, plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • PLUS system withdrawal fee outside Canada, U.S. and Mexico are $5.00 each, plus the $1.25 debit fee
  • maintain a minimum monthly balance of $25,000** and all fees are waived (except Plus system fees)
  • free paperless record keeping option regardless of monthly balance
  • $1.00 monthly record keeping fee for statement or passbook is waived if minimum monthly balance of $500** is maintained
  • earn daily interest at competitive rates that grow with your balance***
  • convenient Direct Deposit
 

SVMc

Nominee Member
Apr 16, 2007
86
7
8
Toronto
I can agree with paying an up front service fee for my banking package. This means that I as the consumer am responsible for determining how I will pay my service fees, one flat rate, or a lower rate and then a charge per service.

What frustrates me the most are that as the banks close their branches earlier, and then close branches entirely, and bank ATM's change to the white label ATM's I am faced with the choice of either travelling further to access cash at my own branch, or paying a fee to access cash at a white label or alternate bank. To date, like perhaps many customers I've altered my banking habits going as far as to change the bank I bank with because they shut their location that was closest to me, so rather than have to either travel another 20 blocks or pay 3.00 per withdrawl I took my business elsewhere, this should always be the option of the consumer.

My concern is that as more banks make their money on investment, business banking and mortagages that personal banking, while essential to the individuals is not a priority for the banks and the service is dropping to the level that it is not hard to imagine a time when it will be near impossible to find a bank owned ATM where personal banking can be conducted. It is in this context that I am very against having to pay to access my own money, low end 3.00 (1.50 at the ATM, 1.50 from my bank) and high end 5.00 .

The other big concern that I have is the debit machines that are now increasingly popular and charge a fee for paying by debit.

One way I have altered my behaviour (like many people) is to carry less cash because it is now a hassle to withdraw it, and to do most of my transactions by debit. So, if I'm being charged to withdraw my cash, and charged to use my money to pay for consumable goods I begin to wonder what the benefits are of having a chequing account and why I don't just keep all of my disposable income under my mattress and only use banks for savings and investments that actually do have returns. Of course that would only encourage a further gutting of the personal banking system.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
The fact that you have CHOSEN to deal with a bank that charges you high fees should not require the government to pass a law to protect you.
That's my complaint. People have options, but refuse to use them, and then want the government to look after them. Pitiful.

If customers are getting raped by service fees I think it is the goverments duty to pass a law in regards to the fees. Regardless of what package you choose you are still paying for the right to access your own damn money.
 

SVMc

Nominee Member
Apr 16, 2007
86
7
8
Toronto
I think at issue here is not the bank fees as they pertain to a service package, but the ATM fees which are incremental to being able to access our own money and banks can and are encouraging a rise in these fees by withdrawing service points.
 

gc

Electoral Member
May 9, 2006
931
20
18
Even if you use your banks ATM's you can still be charges fee's TenPenny.

What about ING or President's Choice accounts? I don't think they charge any fees. If ATM fees are such a huge problem, I don't see why other banks wouldn't follow suit.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
What about ING or President's Choice accounts? I don't think they charge any fees. If ATM fees are such a huge problem, I don't see why other banks wouldn't follow suit.

I agree, ING and PC are good alternatives to the usual suspects. The service charges don't put a big dent on my money flow but I can imagine how much it hurts on people towing the poverty line.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
What about ING or President's Choice accounts? I don't think they charge any fees. If ATM fees are such a huge problem, I don't see why other banks wouldn't follow suit.
They don't operate a network except basically a website. How would either of these instutions feel about building a large network of ATM's and allowing everyone to use them for free? Why haven't they already and charged people for them?
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
The REAL problem isn't the fees its the fact access to own-bank services, particulary in the rural and inner-city areas, sucks. This bill misses that mark big time and if anything only has the potential to make the situation worse.
 
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Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
48
Leiden, the Netherlands
So I guess the basic idea of drafting this bill is that banks are firing tellers and shortening hours in favor of ATM's, then charging for the ATM usage that they force upon their customers.

Bank A would still be able to charge User X for accessing their account with Bank B through Bank A's ATM. I think. But Bank A would not be allowed to charge User X for trying to acquire his money. I think.
 

Pangloss

Council Member
Mar 16, 2007
1,535
41
48
Calgary, Alberta
Oh, this is gonna hurt. . .

I have to, well, um, I don't know how to say this, but. . .

I have to agree totally with what Ten Penny is saying.

The ATMs are a convenience, every bank has a low or no cost alternative, and Pres Choice and ING are free.

There is market choice, there are alternatives, and all people have to do is get up on their hind legs and go to the bank (or shoe store, or restaurant or. . .) whose policies they can support.

Using the bludgeon of Gov't regulations to fix a problem that simply does not exist is stupid and self-defeating in the extreme.

This is a non-problem - this is being used as a cynical vote getter, that's all.

Pangloss

(ok, that didn't hurt nearly as much as I thought it would. . .)