Stockwell Day Defends Afghanistan Torture

[Liberalman]

I was watching Stockwell Day who is the security minister of Canada.

Stockwell said that since there are no human rights laws in Afghanistan torturing of prisoners is a normal practice in that country.

This is our security minister who says it’s OK to torture prisoners.

This is the same guy who wanted to become Prime Minister but was replaced by Harper because his own party members thought he was too much of a cowboy.

Stockwell used to be a minister of a Christian church around Red Deer Alberta.

There is a lot of Christians in the Conservative party but they seemed to be skipping over the ten commandments when they read the bible.

Stockwell Day should read the Geneva Convention because he really is missing the point Big Time

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

This is another example of this governments putting our soldiers in harms way if the enemy perceives that any prisoner that is captured by an occupying force is handed over to a government that is proven to torture the prisoners then they fight the occupiers more fiercely.

In this case Canada should either set up their own prison facility in their area or bring the prisoners to this country in a federal secure military prison to carry out interrogation.

If Afghanistan does not want to follow the Geneva Convention and insists that all prisoners be handed over to them then it is time for Canada to pull out of the conflict and let the Americans take over since they really don’t care about the Geneva Convention.

 

[BitWhys]

I was watching Stockwell Day who is the security minister of Canada.

Stockwell said that since there are no human rights laws in Afghanistan torturing of prisoners is a normal practice in that country....

In this case Canada should either set up their own prison facility in their area or bring the prisoners to this country in a federal secure military prison to carry out interrogation.
...

The first part is a bit of a stretch but there's no question in my mind whatever tripe he's throwing around is more in the interest of his own party than anyone in Afghanistan. afa any sort of a logical solution goes it won't happen since it would only serve as a shining example of exactly how messed up things are over there and call into the open questions that our current government would prefer to leave unasked. God help them and us if they actually have to start working for a living.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I didn't see that little speech of Day's, but I doubt that he was saying torture is okay, he was more likely just describing it. In a society with no tradition of human rights, it's hardly a surprise that Afghanis would torture Taliban prisoners. These are people who seem to think it's okay to behead women and children for transgressions of their very narrow interpretation of their religious rules, for instance, and while I'm certainly not in favour of torture, I also find it hard to be very sympathetic in this case.

 

[BitWhys]

So it won't bother you if its revealed conclusively our troops have been handing captives over to torturers?

 

[Avro]

The Russians were there for ten years and brutalised those they captured and they got booted out with their tail between their legs.
You'd think we would learn something from that.
In war nobody ever learns, they keep trying the same old crap that has never ever worked before.

 

[ottawabill]

so one one end we are to make the country self reliant before 2009 so we can go home, but on the other we should act as parents telling them what to do and never allowing them to be self governing...

I don't like that Afghan's system sucks, but at the same time we suppose to help and leave not take over and meddle. Funny parenting is what the U.S. does in foriegn affairs but the liberals of Canada would like that to be our way as well..

 

[BitWhys]

I won't be surprised to learn it doesn't matter to everybody, but there's this little thing called the Geneva Convention under the auspices of which our troops are personally liable.

 

[Avro]

so one one end we are to make the country self reliant before 2009 so we can go home, but on the other we should act as parents telling them what to do and never allowing them to be self governing...

I don't like that Afghan's system sucks, but at the same time we suppose to help and leave not take over and meddle. Funny parenting is what the U.S. does in foriegn affairs but the liberals of Canada would like that to be our way as well..

Unless the other NATO countries step up to the plate we should leave now and no sooner. Hundreds if not thousands of Canadians will die there in the next decade or two. To me that is unacceptable.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

So it won't bother you if its revealed conclusively our troops have been handing captives over to torturers?

Why would you form such a silly conclusion? Being unsympathetic to Taliban being tortured doesn't mean I think it's alright to do it.

 

[BitWhys]

Why would you form such a silly conclusion?...

Even though there was nothing in what you said to prevent it, I didn't. that's why I asked.

 

[ottawabill]

Unless the other NATO countries step up to the plate we should leave now and no sooner. Hundreds if not thousands of Canadians will die there in the next decade or two. To me that is unacceptable.

I agree, partly!
Nato and moreso the Europeans are not pulling any wieght in this exercise, even though islamic terrorism has affected them more than the U.S. I personally think the only reason there has NOT been an attack in Canada is because of this mission.
But we shouldn't leave in the morning because others don't pull their weight. It would be better to get Europe onside then pull back. Get Germany and Spain as major troups and we can get to our re-building effort.

It's rather hard to re-build if you can't stop the enemy from killing everyone they see now is it?

 

[elevennevele]

You see, that is another fallacy this government has created in order to defend itself. What a ludicrous justification for torture in that those being tortured are just Taliban. As though for that reason human life doesn’t have to matter.

But now that we’ve all brainwashed our collective heads like sheep around such an argument, the fact is, many were not proven to be Taliban or guilty of anything.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...3/BNStory/Afghanistan/home/?pageRequested=all

The majority of the detainees interviewed were picked up by Canadian troops on suspicion of involvement with the Taliban insurgency. Most identified their captors by describing the Canadians' vehicles, which look different from the American or British models used recently in the same districts.

Many of those interviewed have never been convicted; some were released, some await judgment, and a handful were found guilty. Kandahar's justice system remains so flawed that it's hard to say which of them, if any, are Taliban. Canadian military and government officials have spent almost a year consistently defending the human-rights record of their Afghan allies.

 

[Zzarchov]

ok.)
1.) to the original poster, bit off topic..but which of the 10 commandments deals with torture again? Plenty of things to accuse him off, but have something to back it up if you are going to say bad christian, otherwise just ignore his religion.
2.) To BitWhys

So im confused, we shouldn't be in the country and should let people be tortured, or we should be in the country because its wrong to allow torture. Are you saying we should use force to impose our morals and views upon them? You can't like only one side of each coin.

3.) The Geneva Convention
A great document, but it only applies against others who follow it. The penalty for not following the Geneva convention, is that others are morally obligated not to follow it against you. Thats the punishment for breaching it and its everyones duty to apply it.

 

[L Gilbert]

Stuckwell Duh is an ass and not a very good one either.
Um, I might add that for a Christain, he ain't very good at that either.

 

[elevennevele]

The government really doesn't know who it's fighting. We've made our reputation like DIRT in the world. Imagine, CANADA in so many months, now has a government that is culpable to the usage of torture.

I am so damn sick of the apologizers for torture. There is no war that should ever justify Canada being a country complicit in the usage of torture. Anyone who thinks so has their head and heart worked over so long by the media and war culture that their values and self-respect have been made soft as a whole.

Who are we now to criticize others for human rights issues? I am damn incensed.

 

[L Gilbert]

Incensed? Thought I smelled something burning. (kidding)

 

[mabudon]

I suppose the only "good" thing to come out of this, is that the stupid crap about "girls going to school" can finally F off and die, and anyone who ever believed it can understand just what suckers they've been played for

"We don't have to like the way they do things" is the most limp-wristed thing I've heard in a looong time- we WENT THERE, SUPPOSEDLY, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY THEY WERE DOING THINGS!!!!!

That we can invade the country on that premise, then reverse the premise once politically convenient (and also once enough time has passed to diestibute new talking points to the idiotic masses) is LUDICROUS and yet another reason to just get the HELL out NOW

Really, truly sad

 

[BitWhys]

...2.) To BitWhys

So im confused, we shouldn't be in the country and should let people be tortured, or we should be in the country because its wrong to allow torture. Are you saying we should use force to impose our morals and views upon them? You can't like only one side of each coin....

what are you asking me for?

 

[Zzarchov]

And what exactly do you think getting the hell out now is going to accomplish?
Torture will still continue to be widespread as it always has, of course..you also have to wonder if thats much worse than the fact that you are shooting people and letting them bleed out painfully all over the ground in the first place.
Now if you wanna stop torture, thats awesome. Of course to do that..you have to be willing to go to war, which we aren't.
We still act like peacekeepers with a little more leeway. Compare, and I mean really look at actions in a war, a real war. To whats going on now. Our biggest fear is the media not troop safety.
No good policy can be made unless it can be put in a 30 second rhyming soundbite. If it can't, we pick a bad policy that will.
Then wonder why people keep dying so much.

 

[darkbeaver]

In any war the civilians are the target of choice, our war in Afghanistan is no different. The leading cause of death in Afghanistan is not the Taliban.
The political and social problems Afghans suffer in no way justifies our involvemnt in military occupation. There are hundreds of socially and politicallly unstable raveged regions on the planet, all in need of help, many are caught up in violent grabs for hydro-carbons. Half of Africa is suffering for exactly that reason. Hati is a tortured nation which has been constantly raped and pillaged for decades it's principal torturer is the United States and capitalists in particular who have used and continue to use Hatians as manufacturing slaves for western consumers, that's us. Thousands die in that country every month for lack of the basics, no body cares, the Taliban don't even know where Hati is, and there are no Islamic Hordes, just rich corporate pigs every bit as murderous as the Nazis.
Those Canadians here who believe we're saving Afghans because that's the splendid people we are, grow up and get real, you don't know what you're talking about.