PM must act on Kyoto now

Avro

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Feb 12, 2007
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Canada cannot afford to fall behind in the next industrial revolution

February 23, 2007
Stéphane Dion

Last week, a bill by Liberal MP Pablo Rodriguez calling on the Conservative government to meet Canada's Kyoto targets was passed by the House of Commons.
This bill requires the Conservatives to propose a plan to meet the challenge set by the Kyoto targets or to provide an accounting to the House on why those targets will not be met. Needless to say, the Conservatives voted against the bill.
This is a government that fails to see the economic possibilities presented by the transformational change that is required to combat climate change. Canada is faced with a choice, one that will affect the lives and prosperity of future generations: lead or be left behind in the next industrial revolution.
During the industrial revolution of the 19th century, Canada used its tremendous natural resources to help build a network of railways across the country, realizing the rewards. During the industrial revolution of the 20th century, we again used our skills and resources to play a leading role, reaping the benefits with the prosperity we enjoy today.
The next industrial revolution will revolve around the quest for sustainability, and it has already begun. Caught in a vise of undeniable factors – population growth, the industrialization of China and India, and blistering proof of climate change – countries around the world are beginning to recognize the enormous economic cost of inaction.
Already, banks and insurers are pushing companies to act. In the United States, 13 major public pension agencies, with more than a trillion dollars of holdings, have asked the Securities and Exchange Commission to require corporate disclosure of global warming risks.
In Britain, the London-based Carbon Disclosure Project, with investors worth $10 trillion, is pushing companies directly to disclose their greenhouse gas emissions.
Major companies like Shell, British Petroleum and Dow Chemical are taking notice, adjusting their production models to reduce emissions and energy consumption, and increasing their competitive advantage at the same time.
The U.S. Congress is moving ahead with legislation to cap greenhouse gas emissions while at the state level the movement is quicker still. California has already capped emissions, New England states have formed a Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative to co-ordinate their efforts.
Even our emerging competitors are moving ahead of us: China has committed to investing 1.3 per cent of its Gross Domestic Product in environmental technologies and set a target to cut pollution by 10 per cent by 2010. Beijing realizes it cannot continue with its current model of development, and is investing in the technology it needs to change course. It cannot be long before Brazil and India follow suit.
Faced with this whirlwind of change around us, Canada does not have the luxury of standing still. We either act, using our Kyoto commitment to spur companies to innovate, or we do nothing, and suffer the economic consequences.
This is not a choice between the environment and the economy. It was the Liberal party that put Canada's fiscal house in order, and it is Liberals who can be counted on for the sustained commitment needed to meet the environmental challenges ahead of us in a way that enhances, not hampers, our economic prosperity.
The previous Liberal government's plan laid the foundation for positive action to fight climate change in Canada and us on the path to meet our Kyoto commitments. Upon coming into office, the Conservatives dismantled the plan, stalled the momentum, denied the existence of climate change and proposed legislation they now admit was a failure. By any measure, a year has been wasted.
The Conservative government is wrong to use fear to excuse inaction. The government's own studies belie Environment Minister John Baird's doomsday prophecies. According to a 2001 report by Industry Canada, the cost of meeting our Kyoto targets would be no more than 1 per cent of Canada's GDP. The recent Stern Review on the Economic Costs of Climate Change, commissioned by the British government, confirms that finding.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his environment minister seem to be hampered by a particularly low opinion of the ingenuity and skill of Canadians. They should look again. At the corporate level and in their personal lives, Canadians are making great strides toward a sustainable economy. What is lacking is the support of their government.
Preparing for the sustainable economy, and escaping the economic costs of inaction, requires a comprehensive plan, something Harper has not provided. One is urgently needed.
The Rodriguez bill gave the Conservative government 60 days to come up with such a plan, and to prepare our economy to succeed in the global race for sustainability. A generation of Canadian innovators awaits their response. But we need to move quickly, because the next industrial revolution is happening now, and the world will not wait for our answer.

Liberal party leader Stéphane Dion is Leader of the Official Opposition.

http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/184813
 

karra

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Jan 3, 2006
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Wassup twinkie - that what you do all day long - troll for articles - post them - troll boards and post your trolled articles - then make snide and totally stupid remarks when someone xly responds.

Kinda makes you a troll eh wot twinkie. . . .
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Interesting article Avro.

It was bound to attract some heckling from the Bush crowd...
 

karra

Ranter
Jan 3, 2006
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lol - Bush crowd?

What Bush crowd?

You calling moi a 'crowd'?

If all I did was imitate what the news bots et crawlers already do - why I'd expect to be called a 'bot' or something n'est paw?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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lol - Bush crowd?

What Bush crowd?

You calling moi a 'crowd'?

If all I did was imitate what the news bots et crawlers already do - why I'd expect to be called a 'bot' or something n'est paw?

No.....merely predictable
 

karra

Ranter
Jan 3, 2006
158
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Well, ya see, it's kinda like this,

twinkie duplicates what the bots and crawlers do, as I've stated - he offers nothing, nadda and zero too, in the way of an opinion - as I've stated- but,

did twinkie find this article and post it - nope, twinkie the dope just typically posts the constant and ongoing drivel we became accustomed to from the al-Blare skool of far left nutters and foilers galore - not to wit,

Liberals knew Kyoto a long shot

But Chrétien aide says signing accord a vital step forward
Feb 23, 2007 04:30 AM - Les Whittington - Ottawa Bureau
OTTAWA–Eddie Goldenberg, one of former prime minister Jean Chrétien's top aides, says the Liberals went ahead with the Kyoto Protocol on climate change even though they knew there was a good chance Canada wouldn't meet its goals for pollution reduction.

Public opinion was behind the government when it signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1998 and then formally ratified it after a parliamentary debate in 2002, says Goldenberg.
But he doubts Canadians were "then immediately ready for some of the concrete implementation measures that governments would have to take to address the issue of climate change.

"Nor was the government itself even ready at the time with what had to be done," he said in a speech prepared for delivery to the Canadian Club of London, Ont. "The Kyoto targets were extremely ambitious and it was very possible that short-term deadlines would at the end of the day have to be extended."

The protocol, a United Nations-led agreement, calls for Canada to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 6 per cent below their 1990 levels by 2012.

In 2005, the Liberals under then-prime minister Paul Martin tabled a $10 billion plan to cut emissions between 2008 and 2012. But last fall, former Conservative environment minister Rona Ambrose said there was no possibility of Canada meeting its Kyoto targets and blamed the Liberals for failing to put Canada on track to do so.

In his speech, Goldenberg says even if the Chrétien government was ill prepared to follow through on its Kyoto commitment, signing the accord was vital to alert Canadians to the task of addressing climate change.

"We knew that signing and ratifying Kyoto when we did was absolutely necessary to prepare public opinion for the actions that would have to come in the future," he says.
"The signing of the Kyoto Accord in the face of vigorous opposition served to galvanize public opinion to bring it to where it is today in Canada. In the long run that will be far more important than whether we can meet all the short-term deadlines in the accord."


John Baird, the Conservative environment minister, said he wasn't surprised by Goldenberg's comment. "We always knew that the Liberals had no plan, they took no action and had little intention of doing so," he told reporters in Ottawa.

From the Toronto Tsar, now

here's Eddy - no, he is not accompanied by Topo Gigo. . . . :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Goldenberg

Eddie Goldenberg

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search
Edward "Eddie" Goldenberg, B.A., M.A., B.C.L., also known as Rasputin Eddie Goldberg, served as a senior political advisor to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, considered among the most influential, with Jean Pelletier and Aline Chretien.[1] Goldenberg served briefly as Chrétien's Chief of Staff during his final months in office, before leaving to become a partner at the Ottawa office of law firm Stikeman Elliott LLP. He was an influential figure behind Bob Rae's bid to become Liberal leader. Goldenberg is the author of The Way It Works, a bestselling book about his experiences working with Prime Minister Jean Chretien.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
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I don't really understand why the PM is stalling on this issue? What exactly are his problems with Kyoto anyway?
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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I don't really understand why the PM is stalling on this issue? What exactly are his problems with Kyoto anyway?

Problems with Kyoto..........

1. The goals are impossible (not difficult, IMPOSSIBLE) to meet, unless we buy "carbon credits, ie give billions of dollars to developing nations, most of which would go to China.

2. According to the United Nations (through Margaret Wente, in the afore mentioned article), IF every nation on earth joined the protocol, and IF they all met their targets, the effect on climate change by the year 2080 would be (wait for it)...............UNDETECTABLE!

3. During mankind's (by that I mean homo sapiens) tenure on earth, the climate has varied by as much as 10 degrees Celcius.......and we are in a cooler part of that cycle. The UN estimates current warming trends will be between 1.5 and 6.5 degrees by 2100. BIG DEAL.

It IS happening.......we CAN'T stop.......Kyoto is a VERY poor way to TRY and control it........it IS NOT the end of the world.

That would be SOME of the problem with Kyoto.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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1. The goals are impossible (not difficult, IMPOSSIBLE) to meet, unless we buy "carbon credits, ie give billions of dollars to developing nations, most of which would go to China.

We don't have to give developing countries a dime with carbon credits, we help them develop clean technology in the form of aid. Plus the current phase of Kyoto will end in 2012 and it will then be renegotiated to possibly include these nations but be aware this is only the first step of many.

2. According to the United Nations (through Margaret Wente, in the afore mentioned article), IF every nation on earth joined the protocol, and IF they all met their targets, the effect on climate change by the year 2080 would be (wait for it)...............UNDETECTABLE!

There is a good bait and switch, current levels of GHG makes this so but she doesn't tell us what happens if nothing is done and GHG emissions increase like they are now does she?

3. During mankind's (by that I mean homo sapiens) tenure on earth, the climate has varied by as much as 10 degrees Celcius.......and we are in a cooler part of that cycle. The UN estimates current warming trends will be between 1.5 and 6.5 degrees by 2100. BIG DEAL.

Firstly if this is true explain this graph then....




Secondly the rapid temperature change like the one we are seeing can have severe effects on out ecosystems and can lead to mass extinctions.....but yeah, big deal.

I understand why some on the right don't accept this as being true but a great many do including our own Tory government.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Originally Posted by marygaspe
I don't really understand why the PM is stalling on this issue? What exactly are his problems with Kyoto anyway?



Problems with Kyoto..........

1. The goals are impossible (not difficult, IMPOSSIBLE) to meet, unless we buy "carbon credits, ie give billions of dollars to developing nations, most of which would go to China.
Admittedly, Kyoto is not perfect but spending money to work together with all countries in the world on climate change is a hell of a lot better than spending a trillion dollars a year on military hardware like we do now.

2. According to the United Nations (through Margaret Wente, in the afore mentioned article), IF every nation on earth joined the protocol, and IF they all met their targets, the effect on climate change by the year 2080 would be (wait for it)...............UNDETECTABLE!
Don't believe it.

3. During mankind's (by that I mean homo sapiens) tenure on earth, the climate has varied by as much as 10 degrees Celcius.......and we are in a cooler part of that cycle. The UN estimates current warming trends will be between 1.5 and 6.5 degrees by 2100. BIG DEAL.
If, God forbid, the mean temperature on Earth rises by 6.5 degrees, billions of homo sapiens will die.

It IS happening.......we CAN'T stop.......Kyoto is a VERY poor way to TRY and control it........it IS NOT the end of the world. We don't know we can't stop it till we try.

That would be SOME of the problem with Kyoto.
 

westmanguy

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,651
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Kyoto is a socialist scheme... its there to make it look like the gov.s are doing something under a label, when they are doing nothing (like the Liberals accomplished nothing under the Kyoto accord).

The Liberals are just upset because the Conservatives are actually throwing away this sceme and getting some real programs, and the Lib.s:

1) don't want to have to accomplish any enviromental tasks if they get in, b/c Kyoto was easier to hide behind and do nothin

2) Don't want the Conservatives to succeed with a successful program.

I am glad we are out of that Kyoto, its going to lose more nations, and a "new" one will be drafted up

(BTW I despise and hate David Susuki)
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Kyoto is a socialist scheme... its there to make it look like the gov.s are doing something under a label, when they are doing nothing (like the Liberals accomplished nothing under the Kyoto accord).

The Liberals are just upset because the Conservatives are actually throwing away this sceme and getting some real programs, and the Lib.s:

1) don't want to have to accomplish any enviromental tasks if they get in, b/c Kyoto was easier to hide behind and do nothin

2) Don't want the Conservatives to succeed with a successful program.

I am glad we are out of that Kyoto, its going to lose more nations, and a "new" one will be drafted up

(BTW I despise and hate David Susuki)

We are not out of Kyoto and the Tories canceled Liberal plans and then reintroduced them.

A new Kyoto will be drafted in 2012, the current one is a first step.

Hate him? That's a little harsh.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Kyoto is a socialist scheme... its there to make it look like the gov.s are doing something under a label, when they are doing nothing (like the Liberals accomplished nothing under the Kyoto accord).

The Liberals are just upset because the Conservatives are actually throwing away this sceme and getting some real programs, and the Lib.s:

1) don't want to have to accomplish any enviromental tasks if they get in, b/c Kyoto was easier to hide behind and do nothin

2) Don't want the Conservatives to succeed with a successful program.

I am glad we are out of that Kyoto, its going to lose more nations, and a "new" one will be drafted up

(BTW I despise and hate David Susuki)

I was going to point out your intellectual shortcomings and plain sillyness but you've done that all by yourself.......cheers
 

westmanguy

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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David Suzuki sold out to the corporations who want to make themselves look green.

He's like Rev. Jesse Jackson, Jackson exploits racial standards on companies to make $$, and Suzuki exploits green standards on companies to make $$

do not respect himf
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Im all for a bill to lower greenhouse gasses...

But dont let it be written by the worlds biggest polluters, in way to ensure that lesser polluters pay them to increase their already horrible pollution.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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David Suzuki sold out to the corporations who want to make themselves look green.

He's like Rev. Jesse Jackson, Jackson exploits racial standards on companies to make $$, and Suzuki exploits green standards on companies to make $$

do not respect himf

Yeah, David's in it for the money.:roll:
 

RedGreen

Nominee Member
Dec 3, 2006
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Why are we arguing over if we can reach Kyoto goals or not? We should at least try (if we don't quite make it ok, but at least we will have reduced emissions by some amount). We agreed to do this...remember. If we don't try while the rest of the world is, we deserve to be taken over by a nation committed to the health of the planet.

The current trend in GHGs in the atmosphere is unprecidented. It makes me mad that people still don't believe that there's a global crisis facing us and that we're the problem behind it.

Unlike before, when Homo sapien was trying to learn how to build fires, these days we have a civilization that depends on the relatively stable conditions of our planet. A change in global temperature/ sea level/ everything else that goes with the global warming crisis would be devestating to the way we live... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! So really it doesn't even matter if we're directly causing the problem or not (we are causing it but if people insist we're not)... We still need to fix it. We have technologies that can help slow the problem down and we can (if political will is there i.e. people of the world want to) develop technologies to solve the problem (i.e. reduce GHGs in the atmosphere to a level that global temperature will stay within our needs). I can't understand why right-wing business/ money grabbing people would not be in favour of battling global warming. The effects of global warming would be devestating to business (New York would be underwater for crying out loud, how could that be good for business). In addition to this, business would benefit by the fact that there would be a new industry created in pollution prevention and remediation (the industry would be HUGE! Bigger than the oil and gas industry).

Its no wonder to me that people have no jobs or hate their service to greedy polluting corporations. We are only tapping into half of the global job market... The polluting half. There needs to be a balance. We need to create just as many green jobs as dirty jobs to maintain the health of the planet. We can exploit our planet like we're currently doing but we need to balance out the exploitation with stewardship (cleaning up the mess we're making by exploiting the planet). I could see the creation of green jobs solving many other global and national problems that we have: Unemployment, homelessness, aboriginal affairs, health, suicide, etc.

If we don't stop polluting our sensitive atmosphere with CO2 and other, we need look no further than our celestial neighbor Venus. Its atmosphere is so full of GHGs (albeit not anthropogenic. But has the same effect) that there is no hope of evolved life living there... Its WAYYYYYY too hot!
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
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Canada
Everyone like to have food to eat, correct?

Well what do you know? Just as I've said many times on the arguement of climate change... and some of you think this is just an election issue? And people want to take a gamble against what we already know of the science with their lives and their children's lives??



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...wclimatestarve0224/BNStory/ClimateChange/home


How global warming goes against the grain

MARTIN MITTELSTAEDT

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

The place where most of the world's people could first begin to feel the consequences of global warming may come as a surprise: in the stomach, via the supper plate.

That's the view of a small but influential group of agricultural experts who are increasingly worried that global warming will trigger food shortages long before it causes better known but more distant threats, such as rising sea levels that flood coastal cities.

The scale of agriculture's vulnerability to global warming was highlighted late last year when the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR), an umbrella organization representing 15 of the world's top crop research centres, issued an astounding estimate of the impact of climate change on a single crop, wheat, in one of the world's major breadbaskets.

And for those who want to argue that this will benefit us by expanding Canada's agricultural zone — give your heads a shake. The climate might seem to expand the zone for growing as for warmer northern temps, but that doesn't mean land that hasn't been farmed before will give predictable yields. And what are we going to do? Clear more forest to make way for more farming? Forest that we need to help recycle the carbon in the atmosphere which is a large part of this problem?

Moreover, world food shortages will no doubt mean very high prices at the grocer. There is a lot we need to import aside from our grains, or perhaps many of you are comfortable living on mostly a bread diet? Well, who knows how this will effect our agriculture, but whatever the case the consequence over all will be very unpleasant.

Smaller grain harvests will translate into sharply higher food prices. Soaring prices, says Mr. Brown, "could lead to urban food riots in scores of countries around the world, and those food riots could lead to political instability and that political instability could begin to undermine global economic progress."