Democratic Majority - being ignored on Global Warming

[Karlin]

Canada's people speak out in a strong majority against Harper's plans to weaken our fight against fossil fuel emissions causing global warming and climate changes.

Harpers likely response to insiders -
So? They do not give me money like the polluting corporations do.

Here are a few of those voices:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2006/10/tory_bill_aimed_at_cutting_gre.html#comments

The opinions here are not a wide sampling of Canadians opinions, but I would bet that it is accurate nonetheless. Other polls have also shown that Canadians, in a strong majority, are in favour of taking immediate and very strong actions on greenhouse gases and air pollution. They REJECT the Harper proposals, they want to go FURTHER than Kyoto does.

On a side note, in the conferance today, Env Baird refused to tell them how much the CPC is spending on climate change fighting...and thats is not democratic either.

The CPC cut $5.6 billion in emission reductions prorams, and Canadians are outraged. We would choose to double that, and get away from fossil fuels as our primary source of energy as soon as possible.

It is certainly Harpocracy, but is it also TREASON?

other links about Harper's resistance to cutting emissions:

No carbon tax, carbon trading, Baird says

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/08/baird-environment.html

Harper: "no hard caps on greenhouse gas emissions until 2020 at the earliest"

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/02/harper-climate.html

from September 28, 2006: "the government's response to climate change is not a good story" -

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kyoto/commissioner.html

- and Harper had this Environment Commissioner fired last week for saying so!! {story on that here:
http://tinyurl.com/yojtdz

So, on all fronts, the CPC government under PM Harper is fighting fossil fuels emissions reductions. This is in stark contrast to Canadian's desires to reduce our fossil fuels emissions. Not many Canadians would mind shifting over to renewable energy sources either, but the small group of elite wealthy and their corporations and Harper as their main minion will fight that which is 'nessessary to avoid the worst of climate changes' with all the energy they have.

Democracy is a god thing, lets embrace it and change our energy sources to renewables that everyone can invest in and profit from. Plus, a solar panel or windmill in your yard would give you power during blackouts...

 

[CDNBear]

Harpers likely response to insiders -
So? They do not give me money like the polluting corporations do.

Well I was going to give you some respect, until I read that. Seeing as this isn't about the issue of global warning, or Hapro's defiance of the Kyoto crowd, but rather just another hypocritical smear campaign by the selectively amoral left, I'll just say...

Up with people!!!

 

[Vicious]

Canada's people speak out in a strong majority against Harper's plans to weaken our fight against fossil fuel emissions causing global warming and climate changes.
...
The opinions here are not a wide sampling of Canadians opinions, but I would bet that it is accurate nonetheless. Other polls have also shown that Canadians, in a strong majority, are in favour of taking immediate and very strong actions on greenhouse gases and air pollution.

Is your polling method accurate +/- 3%, 19 times out of 20? I mean 93 comments on a news site that's gotta translate into some highly accurate numbers.

I can change the opinion polls just by how I frame the question. 'Are you aware that for Canada to meet it's Kyoto commitment it's likely that we will need to send billions of dollars outside the country? Billions of dollars that could be spend in this country to improve health care or lower university tuition costs. Are you in favour of Canada meeting their Kyoto commitments?"

 

[Zzarchov]

To be fair, there is fat chance that money would be spent lowering tuition costs nor improving health care.

 

[wallyj]

Once again Kyoto for dummies. Your backyard is messy . Rather than spending money to clean up your yard,you send it to someone else. Your yard stays messy,the other fellow(china maybe) spends your money to make his yard messy. Can anyone out there tell me how the Kyoto scheme reduces pollution? I have posted this synopsis 4 or 5 times and not once has anyone answered that question with anything but a snide remark. It seems the mindset is that Harper is against Kyoto,therefore if you do not like Harper you must support Kyoto. How childish.

 

[wallyj]

Karlin,go back and read your link and quote where Harper had anything to do with Gelinas getting fired. You just say this crap because it makes you feel good,but it is not true. Your comment is a lie. You know it,be a man and retract.

 

[gc]

Once again Kyoto for dummies. Your backyard is messy . Rather than spending money to clean up your yard,you send it to someone else. Your yard stays messy,the other fellow(china maybe) spends your money to make his yard messy. Can anyone out there tell me how the Kyoto scheme reduces pollution? I have posted this synopsis 4 or 5 times and not once has anyone answered that question with anything but a snide remark. It seems the mindset is that Harper is against Kyoto,therefore if you do not like Harper you must support Kyoto. How childish.

The problem with your little synopsis is that eventually you are going to get sick and tired of sending your money to China, which will give you motivation to clean up your yard. If you had to pay money to keep your yard messy, would you clean it up or leave it messy? As for China, if they keep making their yard messy, they won't get any more money, so they are going to want to clean up their yard as well. If someone paid you to keep your yard clean, would you keep it clean or would you dirty it up?
Like it or not, that's how it works.

Now, the real problem with Kyoto is that the money does not go to the people who will suffer from global warming. I'd like to see the money spent on dealing with global warming. It only makes sense that if your actions cause some guy's house to be underwater, the least you could do is cut him a cheque. The best part of this system, is that if global warming is not real (though I doubt many people believe that anymore) the money can be returned.

 

[wallyj]

Wow ,you have a busload of faith in governments.I understand your point about wanting to clean up to reduce future payments,but when does that happen? As of right now we will be on the hook for 4 to 10 billion dollars in 2012.Do you really think that in 10 or more years that if global warming turns out to be a natural cycle , the countries that spent our tax bucks will give it back? I don't think so. BTW,the person who set our Kyoto target of 6% reduction was that renowned climatologist jean chretien,who did it much to the surprise of his own party as well as the rest of the gov't.

 

[Tonington]

Once again Kyoto for dummies. Your backyard is messy . Rather than spending money to clean up your yard,you send it to someone else. Your yard stays messy,the other fellow(china maybe) spends your money to make his yard messy. Can anyone out there tell me how the Kyoto scheme reduces pollution? I have posted this synopsis 4 or 5 times and not once has anyone answered that question with anything but a snide remark. It seems the mindset is that Harper is against Kyoto,therefore if you do not like Harper you must support Kyoto. How childish.

Kyoto carbon trading works at reducing emissions by funding the developing nations new energy projetcs, or by paying the third world countries to plant trees. The money goes to alternatives that are more efficient, like a cleaner coal plant rather than a cheap dirty one.

 

[Colpy]

The problem with your little synopsis is that eventually you are going to get sick and tired of sending your money to China, which will give you motivation to clean up your yard. If you had to pay money to keep your yard messy, would you clean it up or leave it messy? As for China, if they keep making their yard messy, they won't get any more money, so they are going to want to clean up their yard as well. If someone paid you to keep your yard clean, would you keep it clean or would you dirty it up?
Like it or not, that's how it works.

Now, the real problem with Kyoto is that the money does not go to the people who will suffer from global warming. I'd like to see the money spent on dealing with global warming. It only makes sense that if your actions cause some guy's house to be underwater, the least you could do is cut him a cheque. The best part of this system, is that if global warming is not real (though I doubt many people believe that anymore) the money can be returned.

Kaaff Gag spuutter HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....from the CHINESE!

Who, as we speak, are putting up a stink and threatening Canada-China economic ties because Canada has the gall to want to be involved in the trial of a religious dual citizen being tried in a kangaroo court on trumped up terrorism charges?

They have been so kind as to tell us he won't be executed, officially anyway. Of course the Falun Gong members that have had their internal organs appear on the open market weren't "executed" either.......they died while or after their guts were being pulled out for the good of the state.......

and where is the outrage, a la Arar?

I guess it doesn't matter, the USA isn't involved, so it can't be bad.

And of course, the f*cking scum Liberals are whinning because we are not licking Beijing's butt on the matter.

NOT giving money to China is reason enough......with no other......to dump Kyoto.

Spare me this BULL****!!!!!

 

[Tonington]

Kaaff Gag spuutter HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....from the CHINESE!

Who, as we speak, are putting up a stink and threatening Canada-China economic ties because Canada has the gall to want to be involved in the trial of a religious dual citizen being tried in a kangaroo court on trumped up terrorism charges?

They have been so kind as to tell us he won't be executed, officially anyway. Of course the Falun Gong members that have had their internal organs appear on the open market weren't "executed" either.......they died while or after their guts were being pulled out for the good of the state.......

and where is the outrage, a la Arar?

I guess it doesn't matter, the USA isn't involved, so it can't be bad.

And of course, the f*cking scum Liberals are whinning because we are not licking Beijing's butt on the matter.

NOT giving money to China is reason enough......with no other......to dump Kyoto.

Spare me this BULL****!!!!!

It should be noted that Kyoto is an agreement to reduce emissions. There are alternatives to paying copout dollars to developing nations like China, ie. we spend our money here, then people buy credits from us.

 

[thomaska]

How did previous ancient ice ages end without 1000's of coal factories laying about, and millions of suv's driving around?

 

[gc]

Wow ,you have a busload of faith in governments.I understand your point about wanting to clean up to reduce future payments,but when does that happen? As of right now we will be on the hook for 4 to 10 billion dollars in 2012.Do you really think that in 10 or more years that if global warming turns out to be a natural cycle , the countries that spent our tax bucks will give it back? I don't think so. BTW,the person who set our Kyoto target of 6% reduction was that renowned climatologist jean chretien,who did it much to the surprise of his own party as well as the rest of the gov't.

Kaaff Gag spuutter HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....from the CHINESE!<br />
<br />
Who, as we speak, are putting up a stink and threatening Canada-China economic ties because Canada has the gall to want to be involved in the trial of a religious dual citizen being tried in a kangaroo court on trumped up terrorism charges? <br />
<br />
They have been so kind as to tell us he won't be executed, officially anyway. Of course the Falun Gong members that have had their internal organs appear on the open market weren't "executed" either.......they died while or after their guts were being pulled out for the good of the state.......<br />
<br />
and where is the outrage, a la Arar?<br />
<br />
I guess it doesn't matter, the USA isn't involved, so it can't be bad.<br />
<br />
And of course, the f*cking scum Liberals are whinning because we are not licking Beijing's butt on the matter.<br />
<br />
NOT giving money to China is reason enough......with no other......to dump Kyoto.<br />
<br />
Spare me this BULL****!!!!!

I think you both misunderstood me. That was my criticism of Kyoto. I am saying that instead of giving the money to China, put it into some kind of fund. Then, if and when millions of people's homes are underwater, that money can be used as aid for those people. If there is no such crisis, the money can be returned. I don't see how that has anything to do with China threatening to cut off economic ties, or Liberals licking people's butts.

Like I said before, if our actions are going to cause someone's home to be underwater, shouldn't we at least cut them a cheque to help them out?

 

[Colpy]

It should be noted that Kyoto is an agreement to reduce emissions. There are alternatives to paying copout dollars to developing nations like China, ie. we spend our money here, then people buy credits from us.

True.

Now tell me how to reduce emissions by 40%.......FAST, or dump Kyoto.

Juan had amn article that seemed sensible to my non-technical mind, but even that would take time. Kyoto is dead in Canada, and should remain so.

 

[Tonington]

I rambled on today about how I thought Kyoto could work for us, in that same thread. It will all take time, and that's where Kyoto can't work now. The world wasn't ready to make changes, hell many parts are still resisting. I realize it's not feasible to go to industry and tell them, you have 5 years to cut emissions back by 40%. Can we say second great depression? Certainly though the sooner the better, and honestly I can't see this working without some kind of government intervention on some level.

 

[CDNBear]

I rambled on today about how I thought Kyoto could work for us, in that same thread. It will all take time, and that's where Kyoto can't work now. The world wasn't ready to make changes, hell many parts are still resisting. I realize it's not feasible to go to industry and tell them, you have 5 years to cut emissions back by 40%. Can we say second great depression? Certainly though the sooner the better, and honestly I can't see this working without some kind of government intervention on some level.

Yes we can say "secong great depression". But that is exactly what some political figures are courting ton.

That scares me.

Did you see the thread I started with the radio interview with Mark Holland???

 

[Tonington]

Nope, what forum is it in?

 

[Briteyes]

To add to what Karlin said

Here is a link to the exchange that Mr. Baird and Mr. David McGuinty had at there committee meeting. It is a video clip. It seems as though our minister of the environment does not know much about his own portfolio. http://darrendrmcewen.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-heart-david-mcguinty.html.

 

[gc]

So, I take it there is no one opposed to my idea?....or is everyone still recovering from the weekend? :laughing7:

 

[Avro]

Here is a link to the exchange that Mr. Baird and Mr. David McGuinty had at there committee meeting. It is a video clip. It seems as though our minister of the environment does not know much about his own portfolio. http://darrendrmcewen.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-heart-david-mcguinty.html.

Green tie?

What a joke.

I thought this guy would be better than Ambrose but he's not.

At least Ambrose was nice to look at.:-D