Tories fess up to hundreds of thousands in undisclosed donations

BitWhys

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oops

By Joan Bryden

OTTAWA (CP) - After months of heated denials, the federal Conservative party has quietly admitted it failed to publicly disclose hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of donations.


And the muddle over the disclosure meant that at least three party members - including Prime Minister Stephen Harper - donated more than the legal limit last year.


Last Thursday, the party filed a revised financial report for 2005 with Elections Canada, acknowledging that it did not report delegate fees collected for its national convention that year as donations, contrary to political financing laws.


In the revised report, the Conservatives have "reclassified revenue related to the 2005 convention," disclosing an additional $539,915 in previously unreported donations, an extra $913,710 in "other revenue," and an additional $1.45 million in "other expenses."


The report does not explain what constitutes other revenue or other expenses.


Moreover, the party reports almost $700,000 in previously undisclosed transfers from riding associations, presumably accounting for ridings that helped subsidize the cost of attending the Montreal policy convention for their delegates.


Having been forced to count convention fees as donations, the report indicates the Conservative party then discovered three delegates - including Prime Minister Stephen Harper - had exceeded their $5,400 annual limit for political contributions. As a result, the party refunded $456 each to Harper and the other two delegates.


The party has also been forced to send belated 2005 tax receipts to the roughly 3,000 delegates who attended the convention, with instructions on the complicated process required to retroactively claim the tax credit.


"The Conservative Party of Canada does not believe that delegate fees paid to cover the basic costs of a convention should be subsidized by taxpayers through the political tax credit system," says a letter accompanying the receipts.


"However, we have recently been advised that Elections Canada takes the position that the amount of a convention fee paid by a delegate, less the value of certain 'tangible benefits' received such as meals, are to be treated as a political contribution by that delegate."


The party's letter notes that Harper's minority government last month attempted to amend the Canada Elections Act to ensure that convention fees in future would not count as donations. But the proposed amendment was shot down by the three opposition parties.


Harper spokesman Dimitris Soudas said that while the Conservative party continues to believe convention fees shouldn't be subsidized by taxpayers, it "has indicated from the beginning that it will comply with any requirements" imposed by Elections Canada, and it has filed the revised financial report "to reflect this decision."


But while the Tories infer that counting delegate fees as donations is a recent development, Elections Canada has said that's been the case for decades.


The Canadian Alliance, Reform and Progressive Conservative parties - the precursors to the Conservative party - all considered convention fees donations.


Opposition parties say the Conservatives are guilty of either gross ignorance or deliberately flouting the law.


"The reality is it sounds like they broke a lot of laws and they're going to have to be answering for that, no doubt about it," said Liberal MP Mark Holland, who added that the Tories are probably hoping nobody notices their admission over the holidays.


Holland said the financial report also leaves some important questions unanswered.

For instance, it doesn't mention the fact that the registration form for the convention invited outside observers - generally lobbyists and representatives of professional groups - to use their corporate credit cards to pay the $750 observer fee. The Liberal party maintains such payments constitute corporate donations, which are strictly prohibited.

Moreover, Holland said the Liberals have identified roughly 200 Tories - not just the three disclosed in the revised report - who likely exceeded their annual donation limit after paying the convention fee. The regular fee was $600, although discounts were available to some.

Both the Liberals and NDP last summer asked Canada's elections commissioner to investigate the Tories' handling of the 2005 convention fees, alleging that the governing party violated the law.

A ruling on those complaints is expected early in the new year, although the fact that the Tories have now admitted their error and moved to correct the record could soften the blow.

Elections Canada posted the revised financial report on its website Friday. But an official said that doesn't mean the independent watchdog, which is still sifting through the new information, endorses the contents.
The controversy first arose by accident early last summer when Treasury Board President John Baird, the Tories' point man on cleaning up government, appeared before a Senate committee to defend the government's vaunted ethics legislation, the Federal Accountability Act.

At the time, the government was hoping to enact the new legislation, which includes reducing the annual political donation limit to $1,000 from $5,400, during the fall. Liberals feared the act would mean anyone who had given more than $5 to the Liberals during 2006 would be unable to pay the $995 fee to attend their Dec. 2 leadership convention without exceeding the new donation limit.

In the process of dismissing Liberal concerns, Baird insisted that convention fees did not count as donations and blurted out that the Tories did not report the fees to their 2005 convention as political contributions or issue any tax receipts for them.

When The Canadian Press first reported Baird's comments and the apparent breach of the law, Tory officials angrily insisted they'd "fully complied" with the law and that delegate fees could only be considered donations if the convention turned a profit.

The Tories persisted in this argument even after Elections Canada officials made it clear that profit had nothing to do with it and that the Tory interpretation of the law was incorrect.

"I can fax you scads of material on this. This is the way it's been done for time immemorial," Conservative party legal counsel, Paul Lepsoe, told CP last summer.

Holland said much of the Tories' mishandling of their 2005 convention fees appears to be the product of "complete ignorance" of the law.

"To me, that's just as scary (as deliberately breaking the law). I mean, we have a Treasury Board president who doesn't even understand the laws he's attempting to rewrite. I mean, it's astounding. It's breathtaking."
 

CDNBear

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Not a big surprise. They are politians, are they not. They still smell better then the liberals, at any rate.
 

BitWhys

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think so?

Since such a conclusion requires considering the actions of a few rogue bureaucrats at least as deplorable as party concensus, I suppose that will all depend on what you find acceptable as "other expenses". Or not.

$1.45M > $1.14M

tick tick tick
 
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CDNBear

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think so?

Since such a conclusion requires considering the actions of a few rogue bureaucrats at least as deplorable as party concensus, I suppose that will all depend on what you find acceptable as "other expenses". Or not.

$1.45M > $1.14M

tick tick tick
Umm, the conservatives did disclose contrabutions/donations. The liberals stole my money and gave it to themselves and their friends.

I don't know about you, but when I weight the crime, one out weighs the other ten fold. The liberals stink, the conservatives smell bad, one can have a shower, the other needs to steralized in an autoclave to become anything more then a group of welfare state seeking criminals.
 

BitWhys

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Apr 5, 2006
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"Umm, the conservatives did disclose contrabutions/donations."

After over half a year of flat-out denial they submitted a new set of books last week to forestall the inevitable. As things stand the books of the party of accountability are seriously out of balance.

looking forward to the audit.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Of course if the Conservatives steal money from Canadians...well that's acceptable since at least it isn't some Liberal or a NDP puppet flouting the law....

Canadians refusing to come to grips with the fact that the political process in Canada is just as corrupt and just as criminal as in America, or anywhere else in the world is happily embracing a 'comfortable' self-delusion. The question begging to be answered is if Canadians are prepared to put-on their "party-glasses" when it comes to these theives and liars stealing from taxpayers are they just as willing to regard policies generated by these hypocritical and disingenuous nabobs with the same favouritism?

In the real world, a thief and his/her record of theft teaches us that it's probably not wise to believe that the stated "reasons" and "rationale" for a great deal of what these con-men do in other areas of their behavior is any more reliable than their sense of honesty and integrity toward law and justice.

You want to believe that the Tories are more "honest" than the Grits but "wanting" alone should be insufficient in the face of facts.

We have too much government designed and operated by too many liars theives and confidence men, chaperoned by low-life lawyers and crooked accountants to pretend that decisions made by these people to send our troops to die in Afghanistan...or that the issue of global warming and pollution ...or the defense of Canada or that saying OK to theft by America at the border is acceptable in Canadian politics.

When I see a few of these jerks trundled off to prison after having knowingly broken the law, having been arrested for breaking those laws and then tried before a jury of average Canadians, then you might have a reason for disparaging my choice not to be involved in the criminal exercise of elections in our northern banana republic...

Until then all the sanctimonious babble that passes for informed insight into the Canadian condition is as unworthy of respect and civil regard as any other fantasy married to a willingness to deny the truth of the character of our "system".

But hey....Canadians have been happy to have one justice for the poor and another for the wealthy for some time...why should anything change?
 

CDNBear

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"Umm, the conservatives did disclose contrabutions/donations."

After over half a year of flat-out denial they submitted a new set of books last week to forestall the inevitable. As things stand the books of the party of accountability are seriously out of balance.

looking forward to the audit.
Your point?

What did the socialist party of Canada(liberals) do? They flat out denied everything until they were cornered.

Your trying to paint the conservatives as some demonic cult of thieves, yet the party you seem to embrace is free of wrong doing?

Give your head a shake, the liberals were ten fold more croocked then the Harpo conservatives. This smacks of sneekness and nothing more. What the liberals did was out riht theivary and you know it. You agenda is based on a bias of monumental preportions, that most resembles that of the brainwashed minions of a cult. Not a analytically minded individual. Which is what I had come to think of you, but with position, my visage of you is greatly tarnished, not that you would likely care. I lean to far to the right for your tastes I'm sure. Have you noticed my Native blood? Have you seen what Harpo has done to the promises of the liberals? Shouldn't I be jumping up Harpo's ass by now? Hell no. Harpo's convictions and fiscal cuts will serve the country well, not the sqealling few of the open mouthed, hands held out yelpers.

You're graspping at straws to validate your feelings, don't, it doesn't suit you.
 

CDNBear

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Of course if the Conservatives steal money from Canadians...well that's acceptable since at least it isn't some Liberal or a NDP puppet flouting the law....

Canadians refusing to come to grips with the fact that the political process in Canada is just as corrupt and just as criminal as in America, or anywhere else in the world is happily embracing a 'comfortable' self-delusion. The question begging to be answered is if Canadians are prepared to put-on their "party-glasses" when it comes to these theives and liars stealing from taxpayers are they just as willing to regard policies generated by these hypocritical and disingenuous nabobs with the same favouritism?

In the real world, a thief and his/her record of theft teaches us that it's probably not wise to believe that the stated "reasons" and "rationale" for a great deal of what these con-men do in other areas of their behavior is any more reliable than their sense of honesty and integrity toward law and justice.

You want to believe that the Tories are more "honest" than the Grits but "wanting" alone should be insufficient in the face of facts.

We have too much government designed and operated by too many liars theives and confidence men, chaperoned by low-life lawyers and crooked accountants to pretend that decisions made by these people to send our troops to die in Afghanistan...or that the issue of global warming and pollution ...or the defense of Canada or that saying OK to theft by America at the border is acceptable in Canadian politics.

When I see a few of these jerks trundled off to prison after having knowingly broken the law, having been arrested for breaking those laws and then tried before a jury of average Canadians, then you might have a reason for disparaging my choice not to be involved in the criminal exercise of elections in our northern banana republic...

Until then all the sanctimonious babble that passes for informed insight into the Canadian condition is as unworthy of respect and civil regard as any other fantasy married to a willingness to deny the truth of the character of our "system".

But hey....Canadians have been happy to have one justice for the poor and another for the wealthy for some time...why should anything change?
You pretty much summed up my feelings Mikey, but I was just to lazy to write it as eloquently as you.

My point though, was that I see evil or wrong in varying degrees. The conservatives have not shown the same degree of corruption as the liberals. That's not to say that they are not as croocked, is to say they have not been caught yet. The fearmonguering and fingure pointing, that goes on over little things such as this, is tantamount to the fat kid calling the chubby kid, pudgy.

And I'll state again, the conservatives failed to disclose factual financial numbers, that were not stolen, but illegally accepted. The liberals took money that was not theirs and out right stole it from us, to fund their party and lavish the supporters.

Wiegh it, see what you get.
 

BitWhys

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Apr 5, 2006
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Your point?

...

Your trying to paint the conservatives as some demonic cult of thieves, yet the party you seem to embrace is free of wrong doing?

...

My point is that I'm looking forward to the audit. Valid receipts for $1.45M worth of newfound yet presently undisclosed line items should make for no end of fun.

I'm trying to what? You gleaned that from "oops"?
 

CDNBear

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I'm trying to what? You gleaned that from "oops"?
You're trying to make something out of what is obviously sneeky, but nowhere near as criminal as the liberals. Good luck with that.

I'm not sure how to answer your other question, without being an asshat.
 

MikeyDB

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Would those open mouthed-yelpers be comprised of native's seeking redress of land-claim issues...

Or are these yelpers the disabled and the poor who watch as millions of taxpayer dollars that could have been spent on the quality of life and well being of Canadians is relegated to the "disposable" bin?

It's cost hundreds of millions of dollars according to lying theiving governments in Canada for decades to address the issues of land claims. (A figure of 400 million if I recall correctly)

Do you really believe that our people are any better off after having listened to the promises of Liberals or Conservatives acheiving power in "free elections" sanctioned by the wealthy elite of this nation to keep the Whah-Hoos cripples and homeless degenerates way way down the list of Canadian priorities?

You're far happier to have our tax dollars paid to middle-men (usually with close ties to Canadian and American defense industry lobbyists than the average Joe or Sally Canadian, so our young men and women can go to Afghanistan and die for a government that lies and steals from its people?

I don't know how old you are Bear but I can tell you from first hand experience that the blacks in America who were the first to go to Southeast Asia and die for a nation of whites who didn't allow them to ride the bus or drink from a public fountain or enjoy the VERY RIGHTS that we were told were so important to "Americans" and "Canadians" died on the whisper of a fraud and a lie.

You support these hypocrits and liars if you're prepared to a conditional and situational view of how the world works, just remember who it is that pulls the strings...
 

MikeyDB

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Bear...

With respect to your equivocation regarding the particular way these theives got their booty...

Is it a crime for a TV evangelist to sell "redemption" to TV viewers and collect those donations from their TV ministries, audio cassettes, video tapes books and pamphlets you'll recieve for sending in your cash?

According to "law" you're free to send a thief like Swaggart or Roberts all the money you want. It's entirely legal for the elderly the ill and the person dreaming of "salvation" to be hosed for their savings...

Law is not the same as justice Bear and I would have thought you knew better.
 

CDNBear

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Would those open mouthed-yelpers be comprised of native's seeking redress of land-claim issues...

Or are these yelpers the disabled and the poor who watch as millions of taxpayer dollars that could have been spent on the quality of life and well being of Canadians is relegated to the "disposable" bin?

It's cost hundreds of millions of dollars according to lying theiving governments in Canada for decades to address the issues of land claims. (A figure of 400 million if I recall correctly)

Do you really believe that our people are any better off after having listened to the promises of Liberals or Conservatives acheiving power in "free elections" sanctioned by the wealthy elite of this nation to keep the Whah-Hoos cripples and homeless degenerates way way down the list of Canadian priorities?

You're far happier to have our tax dollars paid to middle-men (usually with close ties to Canadian and American defense industry lobbyists than the average Joe or Sally Canadian, so our young men and women can go to Afghanistan and die for a government that lies and steals from its people?

I don't know how old you are Bear but I can tell you from first hand experience that the blacks in America who were the first to go to Southeast Asia and die for a nation of whites who didn't allow them to ride the bus or drink from a public fountain or enjoy the VERY RIGHTS that we were told were so important to "Americans" and "Canadians" died on the whisper of a fraud and a lie.

You support these hypocrits and liars if you're prepared to a conditional and situational view of how the world works, just remember who it is that pulls the strings...
I'm 36 and yes I am aware of the plight of the Blackman, but as I am to young to remember its hight of depravity, I have relied on the historic writings of others to learn it.

But that does not mean that I was free from experiencing my own racist onslaughts, from white frano phones, that saw me as a second class citizen at best.

I hold no favour to governemnt, they are all liers, cheaters and thieves, in one way or another. My complain here is that Bit shows his colours in full bloom, with tis mockery of political tripe.

I wiegh men and organizations of their merits or lack of them in the case of politicians. I hold no political party in honour over another, although I lean right. That is because the left smell rusky to me. Communism failed, the socialist nanny state weakens the people, not strengthens them. I support the assistance of the differently abled or disadvataged, I do not support paying anybody to sit idle or waste away at the hand out line of any ilk. You should know this of me by now, but for the record, I do not support the further increase in funding to the Native peoples, they recieve enough as is, it needs to be audited and accounted for, then correct the corruption and rid the system of the leaches and thieves, then assess if it needs an increase. I suspect it won't. I also suspect it won't happen, the governments hands are not clean in this issue, and they fear the outcome as much the crooked chiefs and leaders.

I beg to differ on who went into VeitNam first, my oldest cousin Kevin, as a citizen of North America, joined the US Army, and was deployed in the early stages of the war. Were he completed, if my memory serves me correctly, 4 tours. Emassing several commidations and medals.

I support the Troops in Afghanistan, I support the premice of our involvement and nothing more. We've been down this road before, you and I. I would rather we remain agreed to disagree.

But my original post still stands, I behind it. The only people that will not win in the next election, are the Canadian people.
 

CDNBear

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now THAT I can believe.
I guess you have no counter for the exposure of your desired effect and manure spreading? So you think you'll just get a leg up on my honest response, with further witty quips, that add little more to the debate then the dust on my screen.
Bear...

With respect to your equivocation regarding the particular way these theives got their booty...

Is it a crime for a TV evangelist to sell "redemption" to TV viewers and collect those donations from their TV ministries, audio cassettes, video tapes books and pamphlets you'll recieve for sending in your cash?

According to "law" you're free to send a thief like Swaggart or Roberts all the money you want. It's entirely legal for the elderly the ill and the person dreaming of "salvation" to be hosed for their savings...

Law is not the same as justice Bear and I would have thought you knew better.
Oh I doooo, Mikey. But if weughed along side of the travisty that was the liberal regime, it is to compare apples to elephants. No?

Neither is clean, but at least one wat not stealing the monies from the coffers of the Canadian electorate, with a smug selfrighteous sense of impunity? No ?
 

Colpy

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"Umm, the conservatives did disclose contrabutions/donations."

After over half a year of flat-out denial they submitted a new set of books last week to forestall the inevitable. As things stand the books of the party of accountability are seriously out of balance.

looking forward to the audit.

Oh, come on.

This is hardly corruption.....it was a case of incorrect interpretation of a regulation........it was put before Elections Canada, and the party is complying with their decision. The party is unhappy with that decision, and I don't blame them.

Meanwhile, where is the $100 million lost to the Liberals in Quebec?

Which mobster has swolln his bank account?
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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And how do we change that Bear?

How do we hold these liars theives and con-men to the same standards that every other Canadian is held?
 

BitWhys

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I guess you have no counter for the exposure of your desired effect and manure spreading? So you think you'll just get a leg up on my honest response, with further witty quips, that add little more to the debate then the dust on my screen?
...

there is no debate. you choose to make light of $1.45M in undisclosed expenses (party games aside, that WILL be the issue, btw) even though they signed off on the time period already and I'm prepared to let the auditors have at it. so be it. I really don't care WHAT your imagination manages to conjure up as a defense, personal attack or no.
 

MikeyDB

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Is that picture with your post actually your picture Colpy? :)

Nice glasses. I had to jump through hoops to get new glasses after ten years of the generosity offered by the conservatively re-worked ODSP corruption that passed for government during the Mike Harris regime.

You honestly believe that Canadians should accept that the person responsible for Treasury Board and the handling of millions of Canadian taxpayer dollars should be given a pass when OPPS WE DECIDED TO FLOUT THE LAW (or if we believe them...NOT (DIDN'T KNOW THE LAW)?

C'mon Colpy try to imagine what life is like for millions in this country as the Liberals and the Conservatives pay themselves huge salaries for doing nothing...pad their expense accounts...accept illegal donations....pay-off their cronies in the private sector to assure themselves fat-cat jobs after they get tired of leaning over the public trough...

You look like a nice enough fellow...from your pic...

What's the problem you have with calling a spade a spade and admitting that we don't have a democracy in Canada that's worth two farts in a tornado....
 

CDNBear

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And how do we change that Bear?

How do we hold these liars theives and con-men to the same standards that every other Canadian is held?
If I had a clue, I would run for office, then my wife would shot me, because I asked her to, if I ever decided to such an ignorant thing.

I can only wage one battle at a time, when we have cleaned up the Native leadership, I'll change directions and aim higher.
there is no debate. you choose to make light of $1.45M in undisclosed expenses (party games aside, that WILL be the issue, btw) even though they signed off on the time period already and I'm prepared to let the auditors have at it. so be it. I really don't care WHAT your imagination manages to conjure up as a defense, personal attack or no.
No I chose to ignore you bias BS and see it for what it is...

Also, see Colpy's post below, it makes sense. Unlike your travisty of justice as it would be if you could get the unsuspecting to follow the cult you strive to form.

Oh, come on.

This is hardly corruption.....it was a case of incorrect interpretation of a regulation........it was put before Elections Canada, and the party is complying with their decision. The party is unhappy with that decision, and I don't blame them.

Meanwhile, where is the $100 million lost to the Liberals in Quebec?

Which mobster has swolln his bank account?

Is that picture with your post actually your picture Colpy? :)

Nice glasses. I had to jump through hoops to get new glasses after ten years of the generosity offered by the conservatively re-worked ODSP corruption that passed for government during the Mike Harris regime.

You honestly believe that Canadians should accept that the person responsible for Treasury Board and the handling of millions of Canadian taxpayer dollars should be given a pass when OPPS WE DECIDED TO FLOUT THE LAW (or if we believe them...NOT (DIDN'T KNOW THE LAW)?

C'mon Colpy try to imagine what life is like for millions in this country as the Liberals and the Conservatives pay themselves huge salaries for doing nothing...pad their expense accounts...accept illegal donations....pay-off their cronies in the private sector to assure themselves fat-cat jobs after they get tired of leaning over the public trough...

You look like a nice enough fellow...from your pic...

What's the problem you have with calling a spade a spade and admitting that we don't have a democracy in Canada that's worth two farts in a tornado....
Hey I use that statement in your last sentence all the time, lol.