Harper slams Bloc threat to bring down government over Afghan mission

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The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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By Alexander Panetta

OTTAWA (CP) - Prime Minister Stephen Harper is accusing the Bloc Quebecois of using the country's soldiers as political pawns in the debate over Canada's role in Afghanistan.

Harper said the Bloc's threat to introduce a non-confidence motion sometime in the new year over his handling of the Afghan mission is careless and hypocritical.

"Our soldiers in Afghanistan . . . are participating in the economic development of the country and they are providing humanitarian assistance, but the situation is very dangerous," Harper told the House of Commons on Tuesday.

"The only problem here is the political opportunism of the leader of the Bloc Quebecois . . . He's just playing political games on the backs of our soldiers."

Duceppe retorted that he continues to support Canadian troops being in Afghanistan - but that he's challenging Harper's leadership on the file. He said the government is too obsessed with fighting terrorists and not enough on rebuilding Afghanistan.

Duceppe noted that NATO's commander in Afghanistan - British Lt.-Gen. David Richards - has warned that 70 per cent of Afghans could switch sides and support the Taliban within months unless they see tangible construction results on the ground.

"I've never said there should be no military role. We've never said that," Duceppe said.

"What we need is a rebalancing so that in three years we don't end up with a Baker report on Afghanistan, like we've got for Iraq now."

He also took a more personal jab at Harper and accused him of a simplistic, us-against-them worldview that is doomed to fail in Afghanistan.

"It is the ideological approach of the prime minister that allows him to look at the world in terms of good guys and bad guys. He sees everything in black and white."

Government officials said Duceppe's criticism hasn't included much in the way of detail about how exactly the mission might be "rebalanced."

Conservatives note that their government has more than doubled humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan, to $100 million annually over 10 years.

The Canadian who recently led the NATO mission for nine months also points out that reconstruction is going on.

Brig.-Gen. David Fraser says 146 kilometres of new roads and more than 100,000 metres of irrigation canals were finished during his stint. Another 1,000 wells were dug in Kandahar province by Nov. 1, when the Dutch assumed control of the mission.

However, the mission has become increasingly controversial with mounting casualties that have seen 44 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat killed.

The other opposition parties have suggested they might support a Bloc motion on Afghanistan, which would give them enough votes to topple the minority government.

Such a move would be especially tricky for the Liberals.
Their caucus includes numerous critics of the current mission. But they sent troops to Kandahar in the first place and also have a number of mission supporters within their ranks.
And even though the mission is especially unpopular in Quebec, the Bloc's criticism also carries some political risk.
Perhaps their biggest challenge in the next election will be regaining the seats they lost to the Tories in the Quebec City region - which is home to the Valcartier military base, soldiers' families, and 2,000 troops who will be heading to Afghanistan next summer.





Copyright © 2006 Canadian Press
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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The Afghani document "Implementation of The Afghanistan Compact Benchmarks March – August 2006" available at...
http://www.reliefweb.int/library/documents/2006/govafg-afg-08nov3.pdf (pdf)


Its available at the ANDS website but it would appear Afghanistan is running on a 286...
http://www.ands.gov.af/ands/jcmb/index.asp?j1=expand&j2=expand&j3=expand

...is worthwhile reading for those who care to take "Support Our Troops"® beyond platitudes and impracticle simplicity. Most topical amongst Canadian's immediate concerns would be page 7 of the report...

1.4: DISBANDMENT OF ILLEGALLY ARMED GROUPS
REPORT DURATION: MARCH – SEPTEMBER 2006
Benchmark:
All illegally armed groups will be disbanded by end-1386 (20 March 2008)* in all provinces.

Progress on Implementation:
• As of 30 September 2006, 5,557 Illegally Armed Groups (IAGs) and Government-linked Illegally Armed Groups (GOLIAGs) are listed in all 34 provinces.
• From this estimated number, 1,334 IAGs have been disbanded.
• 258 are engaged in the process of compliance (out of this number 31 are GOLIAGs).
• At this stage 95 percent of IAGs identified are non-compliant.
• Between January and August 2006, there have been 46 and 118 attacks against government staff and citizens respectively.
• As of September 2006, a total of 25,936 weapons have been collected, consisting of 22,277 light weapons and 3,659 heavy weapons.
• As of September 2006, 22,925 boxes of ammunition and 229,303 pieces of ammunition were collected.

Problems and Challenges:
• Achievement of this benchmark is critically linked to the effectiveness of the ANA, ANP and ABP.
Strong GoA support is therefore required for all security benchmarks. Until Afghan security forces are perceived as professional and credible deterrents, this benchmark will be difficult to achieve. Further challenges are listed by critical area, and the corresponding immediate action required can be found in the table attached to this benchmark.

What can be expected to be delivered in the short-term?
• Progress is slow and immediate support in the form of technical assistance and GoA political will is required to speed up this process

* NB this is a schedule slip of three and a half months from the original English version of the Afghanistan Compact document.

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What "GoA political will is required" readily translates into is that the Northern Alliance is quietly excluding the Taliban and those they represent from the democratic process. That's a shame since, history's lessons aside, the fact that the theatre of operations will never extend over the range required for even the possibility of military success, inclusion of some sort is where its going to end up eventually anyways. There's a lot of work needs doing and precious little of it involves locking and loading, which should leave one to wonder why NATO is spearheading our efforts there.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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Yes, Harper rolls out the talking points every time, but it does appear that enough folks are easily able to recognize and dismiss them, thankfully

By calling ANY attempt to discuss the failing "mission" in Afghanistan "a threat to the Troops" Harper is making himself appear pretty silly- the suggestion that NO dialogue can happen without being unpatriotic is something I've heard before somewheres, actually, can't quite place the source ;)

Same with the "playing politics", I mean, we are mired in a mission that will drag on for as long as we want it to, even talking about it is somehow just playing games?? THAT is shameful- IF there is nay hope of salvaging anything out of the "mission", it should be THE number one priority as far as foreign involvements goes, and the fact that Harper wants it off the table no matter what stinks to high heaven AND flies in the face of his "transparent and accountable" doctrine

He's playing a stupid, stupid game, and I think his bag of tricks is almost spent, here's hoping
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
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this woosy Canadian debate drives me up the wall!!

You can't just decide that troups will build roads instead of fight Taliban....

The thought seems to be that if you don't fight the Taliban they will stop fighting us..duh... They will bomb the soliders while they build the roads..then we will have dead soldiers and roads with big bomb blast holes in them.

If your basement was flooded and continued to flood..this would not be a good time to lay down new floor tiles...you have to stop the flood...find where it came from..fix it..then lay new tiles. There is no other logical order to it...

It's this disney approach that I hear from the Bloc, NDP and to a lessor extent the Liberals, that somehow the world is just a happy peaceful place unless it is use that upsets the balance.... I suppose if Osama had trageted the Place Boniventure instead of the WORLD TRADE CENTRE they would say it was English Canada's fault??
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
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By Alexander Panetta

OTTAWA (CP) - Prime Minister Stephen Harper is accusing the Bloc Quebecois of using the country's soldiers as political pawns in the debate over Canada's role in Afghanistan.

Harper said the Bloc's threat to introduce a non-confidence motion sometime in the new year over his handling of the Afghan mission is careless and hypocritical.

"Our soldiers in Afghanistan . . . are participating in the economic development of the country and they are providing humanitarian assistance, but the situation is very dangerous," Harper told the House of Commons on Tuesday.






Copyright © 2006 Canadian Press


Once again, the bloc are showing to canada, that they are the only one with balls in canadian politics,
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
If your basement was flooded and continued to flood..this would not be a good time to lay down new floor tiles...you have to stop the flood...find where it came from..fix it..then lay new tiles. There is no other logical order to it...

Ahh but this oversimplification is the problem and maybe why you don't "get" the debate- See, we're building a house on a sinkhole, and for every story we build, it sinks one-and-a-half stories into the muck, so we try to build more stories faster but guess what?? once we've built as many stories as we can afford, we'll have a pool of muck with several stories of building sunk somewheres below the surface, so in that view, continuing to build the structure fruitlessly is stupid since you already have a puddle of muck there, no need to sink a useless building in there too

Not talking down to you, just that your "fix the problem" line of thinking omits the fact that the problem has possibly not been correctly identified and so rather than looking for leaks, we ARE in fact simply painting waterproof caulk on the foundation and hoping that the water will stop coming one day
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Well I came across this little gem of an article it appears that Duceppe is worried about the Vandoos and in order to ensure no troops suffer fatalities from Quebec he wants the mission changed to peace keeping. I think I can speak for the Van Doos and tell Duceppe bite me. I highlighted his quote in read, this man is a traitor to Canada and an embarressment to Quebec Military Members. PIG.




By SUN MEDIA


Sun reporter Doug Beazley in one of his Canada at War dispatches from Afghanistan -- spoke with Warrant Officer Daniel Parenteau, of Drummondville, Que., about his wife Marie and his kids, Vincent and Marjorie, back at home. Yes, it's tough being separated from family and friends at this time of year.
But Parenteau, whose job it is to liaise with the Afghan people, also reflected on the mission the Canadian government has sent him on. "I'm proud of what I do," Parenteau said. "We don't want to die. But we want to change this country -- to give hope."
This interview thankfully took place before Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe decided to cynically and manipulatively use the Afghan mission as a reason to drag the country into an unwanted general election. Unless, that is, Prime Minister Stephen Harper "rapidly and profoundly" modifies Canada's role in the conflict. The apparent reason for Duceppe's sudden change of heart on the Afghan mission is because the Canadian NATO contingent in Kabul, in his words, "in a few months will be made up of men and women from Valcartier." That's right, the French-speaking Royal 22nd Regiment has seen benign guard house duty in Afghanistan. The bulk of the combat work and "peacemaking" has been done by Edmonton's Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, who are looking at yet another deployment after Christmas, and Ontario's Royal Canadian Regiment.

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Why drag the country into an unwanted general election. Unless, that is, Prime Minister Stephen Harper "rapidly and profoundly" modifies Canada's role in the conflict.
That's right, the French-speaking Royal 22nd Regiment has seen benign guard house duty in Afghanistan. The bulk of the combat work and "peacemaking" has been done by Edmonton's Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, who are looking at yet another deployment after Christmas, and Ontario's Royal Canadian Regiment.

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Both proud units have taken significant casualties attempting to pacify the country and root out the forces of evil. Not only is Duceppe's threat to bring down the Harper government offensive, it also casts unfair and unwarranted aspersions on the Van Doos.
We all know where NDP Leader Jack Layton is coming from. He took his pacifist stand long ago. But Liberal Leader Stephane Dion is being coy, even though the Afghanistan intervention clearly is Paul Martin's war, having been initiated by the former Liberal government. The Tories are fulfilling our duty as a top tier nation in standing by our allies. Warrant Officer Parenteau and his family deserve better than this from the despicable and opportunistic Gilles Duceppe.
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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There won't necessarily be an election...

The Bloc's strategy is to force the Liberals to take a clear position. It's a win-win situation for the Bloc. If the Liberals support the Bloc's move, then there will be an election and all the opposition parties will have triggered it, not only the Bloc. This will mean the majority of the house wants en election and Canadians will have to accept that and do their duty and vote. (I'm not one to complain because of an election... I'm quite happy to be able to vote.)

If the Liberals stick with the Conservatives then there will be no election but then Dion will to have work hard at explaining to Canadians that we are doing the right thing in Afghanistan. In Quebec, where support for the Afghan mission is the weakest, Dion will have a hard time explaining himself.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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There won't necessarily be an election...

The Bloc's strategy is to force the Liberals to take a clear position. It's a win-win situation for the Bloc. If the Liberals support the Bloc's move, then there will be an election and all the opposition parties will have triggered it, not only the Bloc. This will mean the majority of the house wants en election and Canadians will have to accept that and do their duty and vote. (I'm not one to complain because of an election... I'm quite happy to be able to vote.)

If the Liberals stick with the Conservatives then there will be no election but then Dion will to have work hard at explaining to Canadians that we are doing the right thing in Afghanistan. In Quebec, where support for the Afghan mission is the weakest, Dion will have a hard time explaining himself.

Interesting interpretation, and you could be quite correct......although I hate to see our foreign policy, to say nothing of our soldiers, used so in a silly game of political oneupmanship
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
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phoney sentiment

Harper is using 'patriotism' for slamming the Quebec war critics - is that a good and proper use of 'patriotism'?

Harper is using our Cdn troops as pawns in the 'oil and pipeline game' in Afghanistan - is that showing any respect for the lives of the troops?

phoney sentiments and false loyalties

Harper is loyal to oil and to those who support him behind the scenes
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
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Harper is using 'patriotism' for slamming the Quebec war critics - is that a good and proper use of 'patriotism'?

Harper is using our Cdn troops as pawns in the 'oil and pipeline game' in Afghanistan - is that showing any respect for the lives of the troops?

phoney sentiments and false loyalties

Harper is loyal to oil and to those who support him behind the scenes
Pawns?

Not at all, Canadians do lots of good there, besides, we were asked by the UN...do we need to repeat that to you evryday?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Saint John, N.B.
Harper is using 'patriotism' for slamming the Quebec war critics - is that a good and proper use of 'patriotism'?

Absolutely not. eople can hold different opinions and not be "unpatriotic", and the idea that we have to be monolithic in our world view is disgusting. That said, I've not seen Harper accuse anyone of being "unpatriotic", unless it was the Bloc, and well, being unpatriotic is their reason for existence.

Harper is using our Cdn troops as pawns in the 'oil and pipeline game' in Afghanistan - is that showing any respect for the lives of the troops?

Oh Bull****. We are trying to stabilize a part of the world that had become, under the Taliban, the training ground for terrorism. Were we simply trying to control the area, we'd use the same tactics the USSR used.......terror, mass bombing and murder of civilians in an attempt to make them flee. We are not. We are TRYING to help. With little back-up from those stalwarts of NATO, Germany et al. Only Britain and the USA are in there with us in reality.

Harper is loyal to oil and to those who support him behind the scenes

So explain to me why Harper would like to use our troops and spend billionds of our dollars to facilitate the export of oil that would lower prices, and compete with Canadian oil and gas?

That is an explanation I'd like to hear.

A lot of people like to make everything SO complicated.......most times, things are actually exactly what they appear to be.
 

Mr.Roboto

Ballroom dancing champion
Nov 24, 2006
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Quebec City
That's right, the French-speaking Royal 22nd Regiment has seen benign guard house duty in Afghanistan. The bulk of the combat work and "peacemaking" has been done by Edmonton's Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, who are looking at yet another deployment after Christmas, and Ontario's Royal Canadian Regiment.

You have to see here that the Vandoo's as sended a few members to complement the troops in place that are from other bases (Valcatiers true mobilisation is next august). In missions like this, there is a rotation, usualy 6 months mendates. Some of the Valcartier troops left in october dans november, for 9 months, mainly for protection of the reconstruction teams, so the bulk of the main force can concentrate on the more offensive dutys.

Valcartiers turn is next august, they will be taking over the older main force, and continue whatever they where doing, as in combat operations and all. My father will be among them.
 

Mr.Roboto

Ballroom dancing champion
Nov 24, 2006
54
0
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Quebec City
Are you calling me numbnuts?

Actually, its the 22nd's first time in Kandahar, the last time was in Kaboul. Different mission.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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...So explain to me why Harper would like to use our troops and spend billionds of our dollars to facilitate the export of oil that would lower prices, and compete with Canadian oil and gas?

That is an explanation I'd like to hear.

A lot of people like to make everything SO complicated.......most times, things are actually exactly what they appear to be.

That anyone actually thinks the profit margins of a handful of bit players from Canada have any significance to the geopolitical preferences of transnational conglomerates (ignoring the immediate benefit of participation already realized by arms manufacturers in the process) never ceases to amaze me although I must admit I admire the loyalty of those who believe Harper has managed to rise above it all.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Logic wrote: Once again, the bloc are showing to canada, that they are the only one with balls in canadian politics,

Excuse me but the Bloc want to cut and run because a Quebec troop has been deployed ergo might suffer a death is called cowardice, well that's how I view the Bloc.

I read in the paper today Dion is not supporting the Bloc, way to go Dion thankyou for that wise decision.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
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Eastern Ontario
Mr. Dion knows that as much as he wants Quebec support he can't play with the rest of the country or he will lose them.

The Bloc and the NDP are weiners when it comes to troop issues, having no idea what we do..why we do it and what we want to accomplish, all they see is agression being sent out to the world and Canada being part of it.... If only the world and life were as simple as these guys make it out!!