Iraq is imploding and the US may run away.

[Socrates the Greek]

The US is guided by a financial timeframe in Iraq. Unfortunately they will have to cut their loses and get out. If Iran starts to thumb their noses as they have allready started to do to the west, US may be provoked to start a fight that may be debatable of a guaranteed win between the stupid Iranian government and the most powerful nation on earth the US. So what is the US to do in the event of such scenario? The US must seriously redefine its foreign policy as well it must clearly define its objectives for its presence in countries which is not welcome in. If some one says to some one you are not welcome in to my home, the guest must not take a gun and force his or her way in. Simple as that. The next twenty years are going to be the most difficult years on this planet, because this century is about wealth against religion, and communism against imperialism. North Korea would love to get the US bent out of shape so would the idiot Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the Iranian goof that thinks that Iran will be the Power Broker of the Middle East. These two despicable sorry examples of human life are the real threat against world peace. So, the US it may be the most powerful nation on the planet, but there is some trouble facing the West, especially when we see the idiot Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad just visited Venezuela looking for friends to gang up with against the US.

 

[tamarin]

Granted, the next ten to twenty years will be exciting! No shortage of threats or worry.
You seem to have an inordinate belief in the US to form and co-ordinate new objectives for the region. You have to remember some of the best US military and political minds have worked on the plans that created the present mess. I don't think the US brain trust has much credibility.
It is a smart move on the part of countries like Iran and Venezuela to close ranks. What their intentions are I'm not sure given how important and large the US market is.
We are in uncharted territory and we can't count on the suits anymore. Guess Fate is holding all the trump cards now!

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Re: RE: Iraq is imploding and the US may run away.

Granted, the next ten to twenty years will be exciting! No shortage of threats or worry.
You seem to have an inordinate belief in the US to form and co-ordinate new objectives for the region. You have to remember some of the best US military and political minds have worked on the plans that created the present mess. I don't think the US brain trust has much credibility.
It is a smart move on the part of countries like Iran and Venezuela to close ranks. What their intentions are I'm not sure given how important and large the US market is.
We are in uncharted territory and we can't count on the suits anymore. Guess Fate is holding all the trump cards now!

Tamarin, my thinking with regards to the US presence in the Middle East is not beyond normal limits, I feel strongly that the US every time it had a Republican President the gun slinging has always been one method of negotiation, which it has come back to haunt them especially with ignorant governments like Iran or north Korea or idiots like the Taliban. I feel we are seating ducks today especially the extreme thought that some idiot will wire him or her self up willing to die while they kill 100's of innocent people.
It is a mess and I hope mankind will overcome adversity such as the one we are experiencing today.

 

[tamarin]

A reckoning. Socrates, that's what the Islamic world wants. As the West drifts and becomes more secular, there is this large and growing part of the world that is not. The US is an emperor without clothes. It is mighty but no longer possesses the ability to successfully impose. We are approaching a reckoning.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Re: RE: Iraq is imploding and the US may run away.

A reckoning. Socrates, that's what the Islamic world wants. As the West drifts and becomes more secular, there is this large and growing part of the world that is not. The US is an emperor without clothes. It is mighty but no longer possesses the ability to successfully impose. We are approaching a reckoning.

I am with you on that one Tamarin and I dread the thought that this is well with in the cards. The truth is today human anger is at a scary cross road, our planet is at its most difficult moment of all time, to many enemies have infiltrated with in the core of many societies around the globe, the enemy is very hard to identify and the enemy is committed to cause destruction at any cost.

 

[gopher]

Socrates,


You make repeated references to "enemy". But you fail to note that in the minds of a great many Middle Easterners it is Bush and the West who are the enemies in a series of conflicts that were started by the West.

In the last 150 years England, France, Holland, Italy, and Portugal repeatedly invaded Algeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, India-Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, and other Islamic nations. It is no secret that millions of innocent people have been killed in these criminal wars. In that same time frame, never once did any of those countries invade the West.

Ask yourself, how many more must die through Western imperialism before these peoples will stop turning the other cheek?


Bush made numerous pretenses about Iraq and WMD despite being told that his claims were lies by the IAEA and by Hans Blix. And the Downing Street memos that we have discussed at length on this forum all clearly show that Bush wanted an invasion even though he plainly had no justification of any kind for his war. Now he is threathening Iran. This despite the fact that only he and Israel perceive it as a threat whereas every other nation on earth does not. Just this week the IAEA again refuted Bush's claims that Iran has nuclear capability or that it is close to having it. So where is the threat from Teheran since nobody else sees it?

None of these ME countries are threats or enemies. Not one.

As for terrorist groups representing a threat, al-Daawa (yesterday's enemy) is today's ally. Al-Qaeda (yesterday's ally) is today's enemy. The USA needs to choose its friends carefully and to refrain from enriching bloodletting criminals. Whatever course it takes, one thing's for damn sure: invading any foreign country has no justification. As law abiding members of the UN we are obligated to observe the rule of law. But we do so in a unified effort within the legal rules.

Therefore, Bush must refrain from all further threats against Iran as this is polarizing and self defeating. Only an alliance with the UN and the rule of law will serve to end the threat of terrorism.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Socrates,


You make repeated references to "enemy". But you fail to note that in the minds of a great many Middle Easterners it is Bush and the West who are the enemies in a series of conflicts that were started by the West.

In the last 150 years England, France, Holland, Italy, and Portugal repeatedly invaded Algeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, India-Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, and other Islamic nations. It is no secret that millions of innocent people have been killed in these criminal wars. In that same time frame, never once did any of those countries invade the West.

Ask yourself, how many more must die through Western imperialism before these peoples will stop turning the other cheek?


Bush made numerous pretenses about Iraq and WMD despite being told that his claims were lies by the IAEA and by Hans Blix. And the Downing Street memos that we have discussed at length on this forum all clearly show that Bush wanted an invasion even though he plainly had no justification of any kind for his war. Now he is threathening Iran. This despite the fact that only he and Israel perceive it as a threat whereas every other nation on earth does not. Just this week the IAEA again refuted Bush's claims that Iran has nuclear capability or that it is close to having it. So where is the threat from Teheran since nobody else sees it?

None of these ME countries are threats or enemies. Not one.

As for terrorist groups representing a threat, al-Daawa (yesterday's enemy) is today's ally. Al-Qaeda (yesterday's ally) is today's enemy. The USA needs to choose its friends carefully and to refrain from enriching bloodletting criminals. Whatever course it takes, one thing's for damn sure: invading any foreign country has no justification. As law abiding members of the UN we are obligated to observe the rule of law. But we do so in a unified effort within the legal rules.

Therefore, Bush must refrain from all further threats against Iran as this is polarizing and self defeating. Only an alliance with the UN and the rule of law will serve to end the threat of terrorism.

Gopher, there is a lot of truth on your post. The US has found it self every time a republican government has been in office to be picking fights around the globe with a sloppy imperialistic dictatorial posturing. They are money hungry, oil hungry, and power hungry, of course I am referring to the republicans. The bottom line here is, a street fight often involves more than two people, in the ME the fight is to exterminate the Jews completely remove them from the face of this earth, and that is a big threat that comes out of Iran, their president rat,idiot Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has no business supporting the hizballa terrorist launching missiles from civil villages in Lebanon to kill innocent Israeli children and older men and women,. The civil war that has just broken out in Iraq caused by the US is a monster that has just gotten up to fight. What do we do? The problem is in the world stage we have to change the actors of the play and some of the actors guiding this play one that comes to mind real quick is Bush or the Iranian president and many others like them. People like Bush or the rat Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are not fit to lead the world to peace.