Men's Rights?

Andrew

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
69
0
6
Does anyone know of any "Men's rights" activist groups in Canada? More specifically in Vancouver? There doesn't seem to be an organized effort, but there are many areas which need to be addressed:

1. Men's right to choose (to be a father or not - we are not just sperm donors)
2. Father's rights (divorce and child custody)
3. Criminal laws not applied equally to both sexes
4. Misandry in the media
5. Genital mutilation (circumcision) - OK for males, illegal for females?!?
6. Lack of "men's studies" courses in university
7. Unequal access (men's only clubs (sports teams, scouts, etc) = bad, women's only clubs (just ladies fitness) = good?!?)
8. Push to encourage males to gain valuable higher level education is very limited, but the push to encourage females to continue their education is HUGE!!! Many more females than males in universities today.
9. Lack of studies on men's health
10. Domestic violence against males (physical, mental, and emotional abuse goes mostly unreported)

There are more issues facing this generation and all the next generations of males (your husbands, sons, brothers, nephews, etc.), and as 50% of the population, we need to ensure government and policy makers are listening to OUR concerns, and not just receiving one side of the story.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
How am I wrong? 2% isn't exactly what I'd call often. I don't think it affects 2% of men, I think 2% of breast cancer cases are in men.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
That's what I said. 2% of breast cancer cases are in men. That's different from saying that 2% of men will get breast cancer.
 

Andrew

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
69
0
6
Hi Tracy...Thanks for the link.

I am not sure if you agree with the rest of my points (I hope so), and only disagree with #9, but of the studies being performed currently, there are 42 studies that reference women's health to every 1 that references men's health. I am assuming that the majority of the studies are gender neutral (I hope they are anyway). But 42 to 1 is quite the gap.

The point is that men are dying at an earlier age than women (6 or 7 years younger), and this issue needs to be addressed. It does not seem to be a big concern for Canadian, but I think with the proper exposure more could be done.

Shouldn't we strive to place an equal value on every person's life, and try to give each group an equal lifespan? Since it would be crazy to reduce a woman's lifespan, the option is to increase a man's lifespan.

A couple of approaches include educating men to get a yearly check-up (good for SPIKE TV for attempting this "Check up, or check out!"), and to change society's view that men who go to the doctor for pains and aliments are weak and wimpy. The other side is to study what is killing men, and 42 to 1 is not going to do that.
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
I think everyone should be treated fairly regardless of gender or race. I think it's sad that in this day and age you need women’s rights groups, men’s rights, and equal rights hiring policies. You'd think we'd treat each other equaly by now.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: Men's Rights?

Andrew said:
Hi Tracy...Thanks for the link.

I am not sure if you agree with the rest of my points (I hope so), and only disagree with #9, but of the studies being performed currently, there are 42 studies that reference women's health to every 1 that references men's health. I am assuming that the majority of the studies are gender neutral (I hope they are anyway). But 42 to 1 is quite the gap.

The point is that men are dying at an earlier age than women (6 or 7 years younger), and this issue needs to be addressed. It does not seem to be a big concern for Canadian, but I think with the proper exposure more could be done.

Shouldn't we strive to place an equal value on every person's life, and try to give each group an equal lifespan? Since it would be crazy to reduce a woman's lifespan, the option is to increase a man's lifespan.

A couple of approaches include educating men to get a yearly check-up (good for SPIKE TV for attempting this "Check up, or check out!"), and to change society's view that men who go to the doctor for pains and aliments are weak and wimpy. The other side is to study what is killing men, and 42 to 1 is not going to do that.

Hi Andrew, we already know what's killing men. Heart disease and cancer are the main things and we already know lifestyle has a HUGE effect on those. The fact that women traditionally have smoked less and drank less than men has had a huge impact on their life expectancy compared to men.

I would seriously doubt that 42 times more studies are done on women than men. Look in any medical journal in the world and that just isn't even close to accurate. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more topics studied that had to do with women since men have fewer health issues that are unique to them (prostate cancer, erectile disfunction, circumcision, etc). With women, reproductive health is currently one area that is receiving a lot of study. It isn't that men are ignored, it's just that reproduction has a lot more to do with women's bodies.


The only other part of your post I would disagree with is that men don't have the choice on whether to be fathers or not. Men make that decision when you stick your penis in a vagina. End of story as far as I'm concerned. Biology means that's the only time you get to choose. And #6 a bit. Every history course I have ever taken has focused on men. It isn't called men's studies, but that's what it is.
 

Andrew

Nominee Member
Aug 15, 2006
69
0
6
I agree. But without bringing up these issues they will never be dealt with, or even viewed as issues.
 

fuzzylogix

Council Member
Apr 7, 2006
1,204
7
38
Barring rape, when a man sticks his penis into a vagina, there are actually TWO people who are making the decision to possibly have a child. I actually agree with your point (1)about this, Andrew as I think men get blamed when there is an unwanted pregnancy far more than the woman, and the woman somehow gets the sympathy for having to deal with the situation. We recognize that a woman is traumatized by an unwanted pregancy, and that if she doesnt want it she can get rid of it. But we dont consider the man's point of view. What if he wants the child and she doesnt? Or what if he doesnt want to be burdened with it emotionally or financially and she does? The woman gets all the choice and none of the blame, and the man gets blamed and has no say. One might as well say that a woman who has sex has chosen to have a child and should therefore never have an abortion.

And as for history being predominantly about men, well that just depends on what you are studying. Many a woman has made her mark in history and gets her 15 minutes of fame : Madame Curie, Cleopatra, Joan of Arc, Mary Magdalen, St. Teresa, Thatcher, Hilary Clinton,
But of course if you are going to study a past war, then you are going to be mainly male based.

The circumcision bit is going to be possibly more debated in the future. Recent studies show that the circumcised males in Africa are more resistant to AIDS. If this is the case, then one can expect a resurgence of this barbaric act. Luckily the same has not been shown with clitorectomy!!!!

Your post is tongue in cheek, I am sure, but in fact, now that women are in the work force, and have control over pregancy, the roles are reversing. Statistics show an increasing number of women being the major breadwinner in a family, and more men are in jobs like nursing that used to be female based, or are at home with the kids. This is creating gender crises in males, and the stress levels of women have reached the degrees of male with anger/ violence and stress related illness in women reaching the masculine levels. This IS an area that many sociologists are studying.

So in fact, I think all of your tongue in cheek points are very valid and I think all of your points are actually being researched.
 

feronia

Time Out
Jul 19, 2006
252
0
16
Gonzo said:
I think everyone should be treated fairly regardless of gender or race. I think it's sad that in this day and age you need women’s rights groups, men’s rights, and equal rights hiring policies. You'd think we'd treat each other equaly by now.

Well said. The fact that women live longer can also be attributed to the emotional stress being acceptable for women and not men. Women are more apt to talk out their emotions were as men bottle up their emotions giving women longer lives and men greater chances of heart disease and other calamities shortening their life spans.
 

fuzzylogix

Council Member
Apr 7, 2006
1,204
7
38
Women are starting to lose the race of longer lives as their rates of stress and smoking related diseases rise- such as lung cancer and heart disease. These rates are starting to approach those in males.

Therefore, women should be pushing for funding of male related disease research as they are now getting many of these previously male dominated diseases.

Women should also be wary of some of the government propaganda in the women's health department. For example, Ontario has a shortage of obstetricians and a much needed midwivery program has been pushed. I am in great favour of good midwives, but I am incensed that the program brought with it the underlying idea that this was to give women a much needed FEMALE bonding and understanding during childbirth that was apparently lacking in the male obstetricians.

In fact I believe the midwivery program promotes increased danger to a mother and child by promoting home birth. Birthing should take place in a hospital to increase safety and the government should be funding birthing units in hospitals rather than trying to get people to stay at home.

I am also waiting for males to apply to the midwivery program as it is a great job with good pay, and the idea that men cant be as good a midwife as a woman is crap.
 

feronia

Time Out
Jul 19, 2006
252
0
16
In fact I believe the midwivery program promotes increased danger to a mother and child by promoting home birth. Birthing should take place in a hospital to increase safety and the government should be funding birthing units in hospitals rather than trying to get people to stay at home.


Is this promoted in Canada? Is it promoted in the United States?
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Andrew said:
Does anyone know of any "Men's rights" activist groups in Canada? More specifically in Vancouver? There doesn't seem to be an organized effort, but there are many areas which need to be addressed:

1. Men's right to choose (to be a father or not - we are not just sperm donors)
2. Father's rights (divorce and child custody)
3. Criminal laws not applied equally to both sexes
4. Misandry in the media
5. Genital mutilation (circumcision) - OK for males, illegal for females?!?
6. Lack of "men's studies" courses in university
7. Unequal access (men's only clubs (sports teams, scouts, etc) = bad, women's only clubs (just ladies fitness) = good?!?)
8. Push to encourage males to gain valuable higher level education is very limited, but the push to encourage females to continue their education is HUGE!!! Many more females than males in universities today.
9. Lack of studies on men's health
10. Domestic violence against males (physical, mental, and emotional abuse goes mostly unreported)

There are more issues facing this generation and all the next generations of males (your husbands, sons, brothers, nephews, etc.), and as 50% of the population, we need to ensure government and policy makers are listening to OUR concerns, and not just receiving one side of the story.


riiiight... you must be kidding? Or you are just ignorant of history. Either way, men's rights are pretty much covered and preserved by 5000 years of laws which have always been lsanted in our favour to start with and the reason women have had to fight for their rights and the reason we have university courses on these subjects is because they were put down for such a long time. As Women rights become more equal to that of men I guess we are bound to have some nut jobs plead the case of mens rights which have always been protected, and perhaps others who try to focus on mens rights to regress or slow those of womens rights. To those who think the rights of men compaired to those of women are infringed on I say read history, learn and do not base your idea's on ignorance.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
Number 5 made me laugh. How can male circumcision even compare with the removal of your clitoris? I mean THINK ABOUT IT, it doesn't work anymore! That's the entire point.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: Men's Rights?

fuzzylogix said:
The circumcision bit is going to be possibly more debated in the future. Recent studies show that the circumcised males in Africa are more resistant to AIDS. If this is the case, then one can expect a resurgence of this barbaric act. Luckily the same has not been shown with clitorectomy!!!!
.

Just so you know, those studies have been largely debunked since the biggest one did not include any questions about behavior (sexual activity or condom use). If circumcision were truly a good defense against HIV, we would expect to see it less in the US than in Canada or the UK since circumcision rates are much higher in the US, but that isn't the case.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: Men's Rights?

fuzzylogix said:
In fact I believe the midwivery program promotes increased danger to a mother and child by promoting home birth. Birthing should take place in a hospital to increase safety and the government should be funding birthing units in hospitals rather than trying to get people to stay at home.

I am also waiting for males to apply to the midwivery program as it is a great job with good pay, and the idea that men cant be as good a midwife as a woman is crap.

Study after study have shown that home births are as safe or safer than hospital births for appropriately screened women (those with low risk pregnancies). It wouldn't be for me, but it is a legitimate choice.

I've worked with a couple of men in L&D and they were well received by most patients. One had been a midwife in the UK. I agree, there is no reason a midwife or OB needs to be a woman to be caring and empathetic.