Harper’s “Measured” Response

[elevennevele]

I'm not familiar with the writer, but I find the article and especially the conclusion to be very poignant.



Did Harper’s “Measured” Response Lead to the Death of Six Canadians?
Filed under: Canadian Politics, International politics — canadianobserver @ 5:34 pm

By Goodwin Ginger

Seems like a rather crass question we know. But one has to query why Harper made the choice to describe the IDFs killing of civilians as a “measured” response to the kidnapping of two, presumably still alive, soldiers. The answer of course is that Harper never meant for Canadians to die; nor for that matter did the IDF. What Harper did, however, mean to do through his sabre-rattling on the cheap was to score points with the Americans and more importantly with bellicose factions of the Canadian electorate. Following the same logic as his counterpart south of the boarder (who has won both elections with razor thin margins), Harper showed that he will pander to any group on the political right almost irrespective of their cause.

In Harper’s desperate need to gather votes and support from wherever he can, including reactionary elements within the Canadian Jewish community, he gave the IDF the green light that ultimately lead to the killing of six Canadians.

In matters of international relations, Mr. Harper needs to make the interests of Canadians paramount; not the needs of a foreign power or the Conservative Party of Canada.

We leave you with a riddle: If two Israeli soldiers are worth so much time trouble by the Israeli state, how much trouble and time is the Canadian state willing to make for the killing of six of its citizens?


http://canadianobserver.wordpress.com/

canadianobserver.wordpress.com/

 

[Maggiemygosh]

Typical Fiberal Lefty Spin Doctor. Two Kidnapped Israelis wasnt the reason. That is a typical Fiberal Lie !

The Hezbollah sneaked across the border into Israel KILLED 8 Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two others. This was after 6 months of Hezbollah firing over 1,000 missiles into Israel.

Enough was enough. Stephen Harper said the right thing and the fact that some civilians get killed is nothing new. Happens in every armed conflcit. Those people were in the wrong place and they knew these kinds of things were not new.

Israel and Harper are correct. Fiberals are not !

 

[elevennevele]

I would never have your post reported.

Despite the personal attack, or labeling tactics you've used against me, which I feel contradicts the value in these forums, I want your post to remain exactly where it is.

I want everyone to see it.

For it shows to everyone the contrast in what should be a civil discussion. It further helps in what I'm trying to illustrate here.

 

[DurkaDurka]

RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

Regardless of Harper deeming Israel's actions to be a "measured repsonse", these civilians would still have been killed.

Do you think Israel would have backed down if Canada had voiced it's disapproval?

 

[elevennevele]

Maggiemygosh:

Typical Fiberal Lefty Spin Doctor. Two Kidnapped Israelis wasnt the reason. That is a typical Fiberal Lie !

The Hezbollah sneaked across the border into Israel KILLED 8 Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two others. This was after 6 months of Hezbollah firing over 1,000 missiles into Israel.

Enough was enough. Stephen Harper said the right thing and the fact that some civilians get killed is nothing new. Happens in every armed conflcit. Those people were in the wrong place and they knew these kinds of things were not new.

Israel and Harper are correct. Fiberals are not !

I'll even re-quote your post to ensure it stays originally un-edited. The article made this very point which could also be put forth on Canadians here.


"In matters of international relations, Mr. Harper needs to make the interests of Canadians paramount; not the needs of a foreign power or the Conservative Party of Canada."

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

Regardless of Harper deeming Israel's actions to be a "measured repsonse", these civilians would still have been killed.

Do you think Israel would have backed down if Canada had voiced it's disapproval?

No, but it doesn't help the families of those Canadians killed that Harper did give his approval.

 

[DurkaDurka]

RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

Elevennevele, What exactly are you protesting to in Maggiemygosh's post? Being called a "Fiberal Lefty Spin Doctor" ?

 

[elevennevele]

RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

It also makes it easier for Israel to do such things if countries which supposedly have the respect of the international community give them a green light for indiscriminate retaliation that shows itself to be irrespective of innocent life.

I would find such fairly uncritical support of either fraction in this conflict disturbing.

 

[DurkaDurka]

RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

I personally think all parties involved need to have their heads checked.

Assigning guilt to to any one group is meaningless, they have all done their parts in this mess.

 

[Colpy]

elevennevele, I think the author of the piece was being called a lefty Fiberal spin doctor, not you. A perfectly good call, as far as I can see.

The Israelis were attacked, and are being attacked. Seems to make sense to me that they would stomp Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, hoping to kill a few, force the Lebanese government to take action and move in to disarm Hezbollah, and to raise the question in Lebanese minds "Exactly HOW is Hezbollah helping me?"

 

[Freethinker]

RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

The original article is the kind of stuff that will ensure a Harper majority in the next election.

I am actually a Liberal, and I first found this board during the last general election, most of my posts about why I don't want Harper in power.

But in this one instance I agree with Harper. The cold logical reality is that Israel was attacked and the response has been measured. They need to dismantly the terror empire on their doorstep. They drop leaflets telling civilians to flee. They target infrastructure aimed at crippling the terrorists. Casualties are relatively low.

While I am to the political left, the radical left on this board basically seems incapable of honesty, almost all of them seem to suggest that Israel is deliberately targeting civillians and post outragous intellectually dishonest headlines and links like this one.

I fit neither the right or left on this board, maybe I am the mythical center.

As much as a disagree with Harpers policies, I will be voting for him if the Liberal leader that emerges plays the moral equivalence game between terrorists (Hamas,Hezbollah) and people who just want to defend themselves (Israel).

My estimation is this intellectually dishonest rubbish is going to destroy the left, much the same way it did in the USA.

I think I am going to politically describe myself as a centerist from now on. Because I don't want to be associated with wingnut left.

 

[elevennevele]

RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

Please explain to me how the very indiscriminate attacks by Israel leading to a loss of lives and suffering of innocent civilians is going to help defeat Hezbollah in Lebanon?

I can only see such actions radicalizing even the moderates of Lebanon who would have been more tolerant and accepting of relations with Israel. And would such moderates be right in their retaliation for their losses? Which innocents lost are deserving of retaliation?

What Israel is doing is in fact turning the tide of sentiment more and more against themselves which will only hamper or destabilize the future of the children of Israel. And so if in fact one cares about Israel, one would condemn this approach with Lebanon.

This experiment was done on Iraq. The population was never radicalized to what it has become under US occupation. If there is a fight against terrorism, why would a country carry out methods that have resulted in the terrorists greatest recruitment tool?

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Harper’s “Measured” Response

elevennevele, I think the author of the piece was being called a lefty Fiberal spin doctor, not you. A perfectly good call, as far as I can see.

Colpy, this person makes no such distinction when responding to me as can be seen here:

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16717

Maggiemygosh:

Master Yoda wake up !!

Since January the 1st the Hezbollah launched over 1,000 rockets from southern Lebanon into Israel and the Israeli Gov't ignored them. Then Hezbollah crossed into Israel KILLED 8 Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two of them. The time has finally come. Go get those Hezbollah Bas**s and if you accidentally kill some civilians so be it. Kill everyone of those Hezbollah idiots then eliminate Hamas.

You lefty! Enough is enough. Been a fiberal all of your life eh?

Nevermind though. It’s really not a problem for me. Let's stick to the real topic now shall we? It's more important.

 

[Graeme]

Re: RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

While I am to the political left, the radical left on this board basically seems incapable of honesty, almost all of them seem to suggest that Israel is deliberately targeting civilians and post outrageous intellectually dishonest headlines and links like this one.

I fit neither the right or left on this board, maybe I am the mythical center.

As much as a disagree with Harpers policies, I will be voting for him if the Liberal leader that emerges plays the moral equivalence game between terrorists (Hamas,Hezbollah) and people who just want to defend themselves (Israel).

My estimation is this intellectually dishonest rubbish is going to destroy the left, much the same way it did in the USA.

I think I am going to politically describe myself as a centrist from now on. Because I don't want to be associated with wingnut left.

The problem with a lot of the left on this BB is that ANYTHING Harper says or does is wrong period, they don't really have a policy themselves they are just Liberal or NDP by name - period. Issues don't matter just who is saying them and under what political name.

It is a kin to being the opposition in question period. It is your job to play devils advocate to what ever the proposed plan is, this gets amplified by the fact it is televised (which is a nessecary evil). But when it comes to actually talking about the policy or creating policy it is time to put the rhetoric behind you. Unfortunately we don't really see that on TV because it is done in smaller groups behind closed doors, so many people think the right thing to do is just hate everything the other person says just because of there political affiliations.

 

[Maggiemygosh]

Goodwin Ginger is the Fiberal Spin Doctor and anyone who believes that published piece of crap deserves to be a part of that brainless crowd.

For the past 30 years All Universities that teach the young naive students about journalism didn't teach them that. They taught their vulnerable minds about socialism and the one side of a coin never that there are two sides.

THAT is why the overall majority of sorry excuse for journalists are not journalists they are social/commie engineers lacking common sense and do not know how to deal with truth and facts.


The worst newspaper in Canada is the Hogtown Fiberal Star and the worst radio/tv network is the Communist Broadcasting Castration ( CBC ) also in Hogtown. One will never ever get truth facts or realities from them, never.


Sad but true.

 

[EastSideScotian]

RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

WOW.....

So I guess if oneday The Usa started to fire Rockets into Canada, You wouldnt want us to fight back?

When a country gets attacked, they fight back, and stop the attacks. Isreal has evry right to fight Hezbollah, you dont just let an Extreamist group fire rockets at your people and do nothing about it. What would the poeple who voted for you say? Nothing to nice, The Israeli government has a job to protect its people....Just like our government.

Now tell me why Israel cant do the same?

 

[BitWhys]

If we occupied Yarmouth and poisoned water in North Dakota it wouldn't surprise me if they DID pop off the homemades.

The whole area is off its rocker.

Speaking of measured responses, what do you guys figure the chances of the Wazzani pumping stations still being intact are? Must be SOME sort of dual-use to them.

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: Harper’s “Measured” R

Please explain to me how the very indiscriminate attacks by Israel leading to a loss of lives and suffering of innocent civilians is going to help defeat Hezbollah in Lebanon?

Attacks are not indiscriminate. IDF is probably the best trained military on the planet. I am pretty sure they picked most targets carefully, very few would even be attacks of opportunity, most will be planned to destroy transportation infrastructure.

This is war to root out and destroy Hezbollah military capability. Siege is one of the oldest tactics known to man, the majority of attacks were aimed at transportation infrastructure. This cuts off transportation route of the hostages, eliminates resupply of rockets/weapons/fuel.

This is all basic textbook stuff. If you don't know that, maybe you shouldn't comment.

If you do know this, stop being disingenuous and claiming these are indiscriminate attacks. Israel has a clear pattern of attacks, and the goals are quite obvious. It is in fact the opposite of indiscriminate.

The problem with a lot of the left on this BB is that ANYTHING Harper says or does is wrong period, they don't really have a policy themselves they are just Liberal or NDP by name - period. Issues don't matter just who is saying them and under what political name.

Good point, but it does seem this seems to be a pattern everywhere as people seem to buy wholescale into everything in the platform of the basic ideology they end up supporting. They seem afraid to give an inch, I wonder if they eventually start to believe this sort of carte blanche support they give. Like a new religion perhaps, easier to find someone to show them the way, and follow, rather than think for themselves.

 

[shannon]

I'm not familiar with the writer, but I find the article and especially the conclusion to be very poignant.



Did Harper’s “Measured” Response Lead to the Death of Six Canadians?

We keep hearing about the death of six Canadians. Well, there is another Canadian who has also died as a result of this conflict. A 20 year old Canadian Citizen serving in the Israeli armed forces who spent his summers in Montreal was killed when the tank he was driving hit an explosive device as he chased Hezbollah fighters who had just kidnapped two Israeli soldiers.

Here's the link ...

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/n...=078006e2-aa50-46a5-a902-5d9943d37e0a&k=76366

This entire conflict could have been avoided had the Hezbollah terrorists not kidnapped the Israeli soldiers. Every nation, including Israel has a right to defend itself, especially against terrorists. What in the world was the Lebanese govenment thinking in allowing a known terrorist organization such as Hezbollah to openly exist and operate within Lebanon's borders. Now unfortunately innocent Lebanese civilians are being caught in the crossfire.

The lesson to be learned in all of this is that the war on terror has no borders and any country harboring terrorists will unfortunately get caught in the crossfire.

 

[BitWhys]

What in the world was the Lebanese govenment thinking in allowing a known terrorist organization such as Hezbollah to openly exist and operate within Lebanon's borders.

It was thinking of some way to put an end to the civil war.

any guesses who comes out on top if the Lebanese army and Hezbollah go head to head? Sounds to me like Israel is dying to find out.