what green dots?
Posts: 3,157 
July 14th, 2006, 10:44 AM
he's a clever little monkey, I'll grant him that...
By JOAN BRYDEN
he's a clever little monkey, I'll grant him that...
By JOAN BRYDEN
Quote:
September is shaping up to be a laugh riot.
OTTAWA (CP) - Stephen Harper's vow to reduce wait times for medical procedures seems to have mysteriously vanished from the prime minister's famous five priorities.
The Conservative government has rarely uttered the words "wait times" in the past couple of months.
But the vanishing act was complete in a guest column penned by Harper in the July issue of an obscure conservative journal, Report Magazine. The column was unearthed and brought to wider public attention Thursday by Maclean's columnist Paul Wells.
Harper boasts about his fledgling minority government's achievements since bringing down its first budget in May.
"It's been quite a ride ever since, with progress being made on all of our five priorities - from cleaning up the federal government, to cutting taxes, cracking down on crime, supporting families and strengthening our country at home and around the world," Harper writes.
But until now, strengthening the country was not listed as one of the Conservative government's five priorities.
Throughout last winter's election campaign and in the April throne speech outlining the new Conservative government's agenda, the fifth priority was always "work with the provinces to establish a Patient Wait Times guarantee."
Harper brandished his short list of five priorities repeatedly during the campaign to draw a contrast with then-prime minister Paul Martin's reputation for failing to find focus.
"If you don't have a clear idea of what you want to accomplish, you probably won't get much done," Harper said last January when he first laid out his five priorities.
"You need to know what you believe in, what you want to do and have a plan to do it."
The wait-times guarantee was supposed to ensure patients would receive medical procedures by specified deadlines. If timely care proved impossible locally, provinces were to foot the bill to send patients out of province.
Harper never offered to give the provinces any additional federal cash to help meet his promise of timely care. Indeed, he suggested they had sufficient money through a $42-billion, 10-year deal struck by Martin in 2004.
One provincial official said chances are "nil" that the wait-times guarantee will ever get off the ground as long as Harper refuses to back up his promise with the money to make it happen.
Or as Ontario Health Minister George Smitherman put it: "You can't get something for nothing."
During a conference call last week with his provincial counterparts, Smitherman said federal Health Minister Tony Clement insisted no additional money would be forthcoming to shorten wait times.
Smitherman said no province is averse to moving on wait times, but he said he was "awestruck" by Clement's attitude.
"You cannot pretend there are not extraordinary additional costs associated with it," he said in an interview.
A spokesman for Harper denied the wait-times guarantee has been dropped from the government's agenda.
"Certainly the wait-times guarantee remains in our priorities," said Stephane Rondeau, insisting that Harper's column "does not define the government's agenda."
Rondeau could not say why Harper didn't mention the promise in the column if he remains so committed to it.
"I cannot comment on that but there's no way we're moving away from that priority."
NDP health critic Penny Priddy, a former health minister in British Columbia, accused Harper of trying to accomplish "privatization by stealth," doing nothing to shorten wait times in the public health system and giving private clinics time to "put down roots."
"I don't think they ever really intended to do very much," Priddy added, blasting Harper for blithely replacing the wait-time issue with another more vague priority to strengthen the country.
"This is really condescending to Canadians to think you can do this and no one will notice."
Liberal leadership hopeful Bob Rae, a former Ontario NDP premier, said Harper and Clement "have absolutely no intention of following through on" the wait-times promise.
"If you're going to make it real, you have to be prepared to invest in it."
Rae said Harper is dropping the promise deliberately "because their real agenda is to drive the provinces to establishing two tiers."
"That's what the real agenda is, it's to tell the provinces and the public that if you want speedy treatment, go to the private sector."
Rae noted that Harper deep-sixed the wait-times guarantee in another recent missive.
In a letter to the editor in the Calgary Herald last week, Harper didn't mention the guarantee as he boasted about cutting taxes, introducing child-care allowances, cracking down on crime, beefing up the military, standing firm against terror and starting to reform government institutions.
The prime minister also promised to strike a judicial inquiry into the collapse of the Fraser River salmon fishery and to "oppose racially divided fisheries programs."
Rae said the letter in the Herald and the Report magazine column suggest Harper has adopted a "very American style" of saying one thing to the general public and another to his hard-right constituency.
"He seems determined to maintain a communication almost as if not only is he prime minister, but he's still sort of the archbishop of the right-wing church. He has to communicate directly with right-wingers to let them know that he's still one of them."
The Conservative government has rarely uttered the words "wait times" in the past couple of months.
But the vanishing act was complete in a guest column penned by Harper in the July issue of an obscure conservative journal, Report Magazine. The column was unearthed and brought to wider public attention Thursday by Maclean's columnist Paul Wells.
Harper boasts about his fledgling minority government's achievements since bringing down its first budget in May.
"It's been quite a ride ever since, with progress being made on all of our five priorities - from cleaning up the federal government, to cutting taxes, cracking down on crime, supporting families and strengthening our country at home and around the world," Harper writes.
But until now, strengthening the country was not listed as one of the Conservative government's five priorities.
Throughout last winter's election campaign and in the April throne speech outlining the new Conservative government's agenda, the fifth priority was always "work with the provinces to establish a Patient Wait Times guarantee."
Harper brandished his short list of five priorities repeatedly during the campaign to draw a contrast with then-prime minister Paul Martin's reputation for failing to find focus.
"If you don't have a clear idea of what you want to accomplish, you probably won't get much done," Harper said last January when he first laid out his five priorities.
"You need to know what you believe in, what you want to do and have a plan to do it."
The wait-times guarantee was supposed to ensure patients would receive medical procedures by specified deadlines. If timely care proved impossible locally, provinces were to foot the bill to send patients out of province.
Harper never offered to give the provinces any additional federal cash to help meet his promise of timely care. Indeed, he suggested they had sufficient money through a $42-billion, 10-year deal struck by Martin in 2004.
One provincial official said chances are "nil" that the wait-times guarantee will ever get off the ground as long as Harper refuses to back up his promise with the money to make it happen.
Or as Ontario Health Minister George Smitherman put it: "You can't get something for nothing."
During a conference call last week with his provincial counterparts, Smitherman said federal Health Minister Tony Clement insisted no additional money would be forthcoming to shorten wait times.
Smitherman said no province is averse to moving on wait times, but he said he was "awestruck" by Clement's attitude.
"You cannot pretend there are not extraordinary additional costs associated with it," he said in an interview.
A spokesman for Harper denied the wait-times guarantee has been dropped from the government's agenda.
"Certainly the wait-times guarantee remains in our priorities," said Stephane Rondeau, insisting that Harper's column "does not define the government's agenda."
Rondeau could not say why Harper didn't mention the promise in the column if he remains so committed to it.
"I cannot comment on that but there's no way we're moving away from that priority."
NDP health critic Penny Priddy, a former health minister in British Columbia, accused Harper of trying to accomplish "privatization by stealth," doing nothing to shorten wait times in the public health system and giving private clinics time to "put down roots."
"I don't think they ever really intended to do very much," Priddy added, blasting Harper for blithely replacing the wait-time issue with another more vague priority to strengthen the country.
"This is really condescending to Canadians to think you can do this and no one will notice."
Liberal leadership hopeful Bob Rae, a former Ontario NDP premier, said Harper and Clement "have absolutely no intention of following through on" the wait-times promise.
"If you're going to make it real, you have to be prepared to invest in it."
Rae said Harper is dropping the promise deliberately "because their real agenda is to drive the provinces to establishing two tiers."
"That's what the real agenda is, it's to tell the provinces and the public that if you want speedy treatment, go to the private sector."
Rae noted that Harper deep-sixed the wait-times guarantee in another recent missive.
In a letter to the editor in the Calgary Herald last week, Harper didn't mention the guarantee as he boasted about cutting taxes, introducing child-care allowances, cracking down on crime, beefing up the military, standing firm against terror and starting to reform government institutions.
The prime minister also promised to strike a judicial inquiry into the collapse of the Fraser River salmon fishery and to "oppose racially divided fisheries programs."
Rae said the letter in the Herald and the Report magazine column suggest Harper has adopted a "very American style" of saying one thing to the general public and another to his hard-right constituency.
"He seems determined to maintain a communication almost as if not only is he prime minister, but he's still sort of the archbishop of the right-wing church. He has to communicate directly with right-wingers to let them know that he's still one of them."
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,154
July 14th, 2006, 03:51 PM
The local area has a chronic doctor shortage. One that's been exacerbated in the last two weeks with one general practitioner announcing he's moving his office to Hamilton. And another at age 51 dying suddenly on the job while on duty at the local hospital. We can't afford to lose any. When it comes to waiting times, how can you shorten them when there aren't doctors to cover the existing workload?
The local area has a chronic doctor shortage. One that's been exacerbated in the last two weeks with one general practitioner announcing he's moving his office to Hamilton. And another at age 51 dying suddenly on the job while on duty at the local hospital. We can't afford to lose any. When it comes to waiting times, how can you shorten them when there aren't doctors to cover the existing workload?
Metal King
Posts: 938
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
July 14th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Second what you said, BitWhys, what a freakin' SNAKE
Lets hope he makes up some dumb crap about how he can't appear in public due to the "vast left-wing conspiracy" and governs in secret from some type of underground bunker.... I hope the opposition tears him new orifices the likes of which we as mere humans have never even imagined over his crappy-ass shell game...
Wasn't it S. Harper himself who repeatedly asserted that anything falling outside the "5 priorities" was not on the agenda at all and would in fact weaken said "agenda"???
The more I see of the little monkey the worse it looks- wanna bet that the fifth, wildcard priority will morph into "making lasting peace in the middle east", maybe "forging closer ties with our allies to the south" or "protecting the sovereignty of Israel" by the end of the summer??
Man, that's a hoot, thanks for posting it as I did not happen upon it in my daily news-hounding
Second what you said, BitWhys, what a freakin' SNAKE
Lets hope he makes up some dumb crap about how he can't appear in public due to the "vast left-wing conspiracy" and governs in secret from some type of underground bunker.... I hope the opposition tears him new orifices the likes of which we as mere humans have never even imagined over his crappy-ass shell game...
Wasn't it S. Harper himself who repeatedly asserted that anything falling outside the "5 priorities" was not on the agenda at all and would in fact weaken said "agenda"???
The more I see of the little monkey the worse it looks- wanna bet that the fifth, wildcard priority will morph into "making lasting peace in the middle east", maybe "forging closer ties with our allies to the south" or "protecting the sovereignty of Israel" by the end of the summer??
Man, that's a hoot, thanks for posting it as I did not happen upon it in my daily news-hounding
Knows Too Much
Posts: 2,004
Location: Proud to be in Alberta
Location: Proud to be in Alberta
July 14th, 2006, 11:37 PM
How about fully funding the educational costs to doctors if they sign a contract to go to work in an area which requires doctors for a certain amount of time? For instance, and living in Alberta I will use that as an example, the cost of education for a doctor will be covered if, after graduating, the doctor agrees to work in Lac La Biche, for example, fo three or four years. If they fail to fulfill this obligation, then the educational cost is due and payable, and the doctor cannot declare bankruptcy to avoid this expense.
What do you think? We need doctors, the cost is high, lets negotiate, okay????
Quoting
Here is an idea which I have floated before, but would like to hear the response to.
The local area has a chronic doctor shortage. One that's been exacerbated in the last two weeks with one general practitioner announcing he's moving his office to Hamilton. And another at age 51 dying suddenly on the job while on duty at the local hospital. We can't afford to lose any. When it comes to waiting times, how can you shorten them when there aren't doctors to cover the existing workload?
How about fully funding the educational costs to doctors if they sign a contract to go to work in an area which requires doctors for a certain amount of time? For instance, and living in Alberta I will use that as an example, the cost of education for a doctor will be covered if, after graduating, the doctor agrees to work in Lac La Biche, for example, fo three or four years. If they fail to fulfill this obligation, then the educational cost is due and payable, and the doctor cannot declare bankruptcy to avoid this expense.
What do you think? We need doctors, the cost is high, lets negotiate, okay????
Genius
Posts: 931
July 18th, 2006, 12:01 AM
Quoting
I think doctors in remote areas already get paid higher salaries, and may have a better chance of being accepted to medical school, but I like your idea as well. I like it because it would encourage more people to become doctors to work in these remote areas rather than simply encourage people who are already trained to move to these areas when they could make a good living in bigger cities.
How about fully funding the educational costs to doctors if they sign a contract to go to work in an area which requires doctors for a certain amount of time? For instance, and living in Alberta I will use that as an example, the cost of education for a doctor will be covered if, after graduating, the doctor agrees to work in Lac La Biche, for example, fo three or four years. If they fail to fulfill this obligation, then the educational cost is due and payable, and the doctor cannot declare bankruptcy to avoid this expense.
What do you think? We need doctors, the cost is high, lets negotiate, okay????
What do you think? We need doctors, the cost is high, lets negotiate, okay????
House Member
Posts: 2,761 
Location: California
Location: California
July 18th, 2006, 12:06 AM
We're too shortsighted in Canada. We don't necessarily need more doctors and more doctors and more doctors. How about we take a cue from the US and start looking into using NPs and PAs like they do. I'm always amazed at the stranglehold doctors have on health care in Canada.
We're too shortsighted in Canada. We don't necessarily need more doctors and more doctors and more doctors. How about we take a cue from the US and start looking into using NPs and PAs like they do. I'm always amazed at the stranglehold doctors have on health care in Canada.
Member
Posts: 138
July 18th, 2006, 09:39 AM
Quoting
You're so right Tracy, the physicians here complain that they're overworked yet they actively oppose allowing PAs, NPs and midwives to see patients.
We're too shortsighted in Canada. We don't necessarily need more doctors and more doctors and more doctors. How about we take a cue from the US and start looking into using NPs and PAs like they do. I'm always amazed at the stranglehold doctors have on health care in Canada.
Bright Spark
Posts: 443
Location: Sarnia
Location: Sarnia
July 18th, 2006, 10:44 AM
Well there ya go. Not only do we have a shortage of doctors in this country, but the ones we do have, are no damn good! How can we expect our nation's doctors to cure what ails us, when they can't even save themselves?
Why is it that these hypocritical doctors can blast their patients about poor health choices, all the while secure in the knowledge that they themselves, will not live to see their first pension cheque?
There's a problem with the Canadian healthcare system! Oh yes, there's a problem...
[/sarcastic rant]
Quoting
[sarcastic rant]
The local area has a chronic doctor shortage. One that's been exacerbated in the last two weeks with one general practitioner announcing he's moving his office to Hamilton. And another at age 51 dying suddenly on the job while on duty at the local hospital. We can't afford to lose any. When it comes to waiting times, how can you shorten them when there aren't doctors to cover the existing workload?
Well there ya go. Not only do we have a shortage of doctors in this country, but the ones we do have, are no damn good! How can we expect our nation's doctors to cure what ails us, when they can't even save themselves?
Why is it that these hypocritical doctors can blast their patients about poor health choices, all the while secure in the knowledge that they themselves, will not live to see their first pension cheque?
There's a problem with the Canadian healthcare system! Oh yes, there's a problem...
[/sarcastic rant]
Bright Spark
Posts: 443
Location: Sarnia
Location: Sarnia
July 18th, 2006, 10:53 AM
I don't know about other people in these forums, but I want Canadian medical schools to keep their acceptance standards pretty damn high, thank you very much. I don't want to have a family physician that learned his profession through a correspondence school. Why not just start handing out medical licences in Cracker Jack boxes?
We already have more than our fair share of ignoramuses behind the stethoscope and scalpel. We don't need anymore. If we're going to attract or produce more doctors in this country, let's attract or produce the good ones. The whackos and quacks need not apply.
Quoting
Are you suggesting that we lower the qualifying standards for acceptance in medical schools?
Also, what about educating more doctors? I know many very smart people who would make great doctors but can't seem to get accepted into medical school. Seems like an obvious solution, but I guess it would cost more $ to hire more doctors.
I don't know about other people in these forums, but I want Canadian medical schools to keep their acceptance standards pretty damn high, thank you very much. I don't want to have a family physician that learned his profession through a correspondence school. Why not just start handing out medical licences in Cracker Jack boxes?
We already have more than our fair share of ignoramuses behind the stethoscope and scalpel. We don't need anymore. If we're going to attract or produce more doctors in this country, let's attract or produce the good ones. The whackos and quacks need not apply.
Genius
Posts: 931
July 18th, 2006, 12:03 PM
Quoting
I don't know about other people in these forums, but I want Canadian medical schools to keep their acceptance standards pretty damn high, thank you very much. I don't want to have a family physician that learned his profession through a correspondence school. Why not just start handing out medical licences in Cracker Jack boxes?
We already have more than our fair share of ignoramuses behind the stethoscope and scalpel. We don't need anymore. If we're going to attract or produce more doctors in this country, let's attract or produce the good ones. The whackos and quacks need not apply.
I'm talking about people who got straight A's in University, are currently pursuing a Ph D in biochemistry, chemistry and related fields etc., who are compassionate and competent. These same people have been applying for years (in some cases over 5 years) and have not been accepted. That is hardly handing them out in a Cracker Jack box. The problem is the people who are accepted are usually those with good interviewing skills (aka bull****ing skills) and those who pad their resumes with volunteer experience that they only did to get into medical school so they can make big $, while a lot of genuinely good applicants are denied.
Quoting
Are you suggesting that we lower the qualifying standards for acceptance in medical schools?
Also, what about educating more doctors? I know many very smart people who would make great doctors but can't seem to get accepted into medical school. Seems like an obvious solution, but I guess it would cost more $ to hire more doctors.
I don't know about other people in these forums, but I want Canadian medical schools to keep their acceptance standards pretty damn high, thank you very much. I don't want to have a family physician that learned his profession through a correspondence school. Why not just start handing out medical licences in Cracker Jack boxes?
We already have more than our fair share of ignoramuses behind the stethoscope and scalpel. We don't need anymore. If we're going to attract or produce more doctors in this country, let's attract or produce the good ones. The whackos and quacks need not apply.
