Right In The Middle Of It

missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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Our forces moved their operating base to the heart of all the fighting and today, there was another fierce firefight[2 of ours slightly injured]. No one had better call any of our troops cowardly!On the other hand, this is not the best way to fight terrorists..smaller kill teams of 5 or 6,operating independently would be ideal.
 

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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2 slightly injured. From what I heard two were seriously injuried by gunshots or something. And an untold number of enemy soldiers were either killed or wounded.
 

missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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All that I had heard about the fight came from a 60 second radio newscast & that was hours ago. I don't doubt that our troops gave a good account of themselves tho & took out many of the attackers.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
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Just a few points of correct/clarification:

1. We didn't move our operating base. We're still based out of Camp Nathan Smith at Kandahar Airfield. We opened another FOB; Forward Operating Base Martello

2. They received small arms wounds, are out of surgery, and expected to live.

3. Last reports I heard had the casualty count at x36 enemy KIA.
 

Karlin

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Jun 27, 2004
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Well, if we are there to "get Taliban", I guess it is working, respects to the injured.

i am wondering what it will all result in. keeping the Taliban from froming government and running Afghanistan is obviously a good idea, since they are such oppressive radicals.

That is, as long as the "average person" there wants the Taliban gone, but this quote from a link given in this thread puts some doubt on that:

Meeting at Forward Operating Base Martello
During a meeting Saturday, area villagers and elders were encouraged to work with the forces to help get rid of the Taliban.

"Show me, give me information," an Afghan police commander said to them in a big tent.

The response was not overwhelming, and one elder complained about the behaviour of the forces.

"Your soldiers come and they beat us, they disturb us in our houses," said the man as the Canadians looked on.

An Afghan police officer denied that such things could happen.

What pleased the elders the most, it seemed, were gifts of clock radios that sported the Afghan flag, a dove of peace and two hands clasped in friendship.

http://tinyurl.com/psnun

K
 

tamarin

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Jun 12, 2006
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With reports the Taliban are growing stronger in key areas such as Kandahar, we can only hope Canadian mollification of villagers and elders will reap some dividends. I'm sure we've come a long way from that early tribal meeting when a young Afghan suddenly plunged an axe into a Canadian soldier's head. There's no guarantee. The longer we stay the more intimately we'll be associated with the American presence there. A protracted stay in the mountainous redoubt can't work in our favour.
Add to that the distinct possibility of more striking Canadian losses and one can envisage any present hardearned working relationship with Afghans quickly dissipating.
 

Mogz

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Jan 26, 2006
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To Karlin - During meetings, even back when I was there in 2005, we'd often get people that'd show up at Shura's or general meetings, claiming to be elders from some tiny village. They'd then bitch and moan about us raping their daughters, killing their goats, etc etc. It was only much later that coalition command picked up on several individuals in the Gardez region masquerading as "elders" from some village. If memory serves me correctly, a British Officer recognized an "elder" claiming to be from one village, as being an "elder" claiming to be from another village all together a month earlier. In this instance, it turned out that the village he was "representing" had been abandon due to lack of a water source in early 2004. My point? There are members of the Taliban and Al-qaeda attempting to sow discord among regular Afghans. It's a trend that was somewhat minor in the North, but, from what i'm told, rampant in the South.

They've even gone as far as having workers in the camps (we employ local Afghans for menial tasks) to steal PDAs, memory sticks, cell phones, etc, to gather names and/or info to use to "substantiate" their claims. My father was there up until the end of May 2006 (on his third tour). He's a Military Police Officer, and one of the tasks the MPs and NIS were given in Kandahar was the investigation of stolen memory devices. In the local bazaar, it was possible to purchase all kinds of memory storage devices with their info still on them. In one stance, the name of a U.S. soldier, "implicated" in a rape, was proven to have been taken from a draft email he'd saved a few weeks earlier to his memory stick. The stick was reported stolen shortly after Afghan cleaning staff had attended to his company lounge, where he'd left the stick. In the end, the U.S. Military Police investigation caught up with the thief and the soldier was cleared.

While I have no doubts that incidents DO happen, I take a lot of the complaints with a grain of salt. Many are blatant lies, others distortions of the truth. You take the statement in there that the troops beat them and disturb their houses. It reminds me of early on during my tour in 2005. A tip came in that a weapons cache was being stored in a house near Camp Julien. Three patrols of Canadian soldiers (including mine) and 1 of Belgians bombed up, loaded in to G-wagons and LAV 3s, and zipped over to the residence less than 5 minutes from the base gates. We encircled the house, and 2-3B did the door kicking. In the house, there were two men, mid-20's, one of whom tried to flee. He was chased to the rear of the house where he turned and took a swing at a member of 3VP and was subsequently tackled by two others. He was zap strapped and brought to the front of the house where his buddy was also zapped and herded in to the back of a waiting LAV. A search of the house turned up several Ak-47s, an RPG-7 (with ammo), and some old Russian artillery shells ideal for making IEDs. The two men were transported to Camp Julien to be questioned by members of the Kabul Police. When the KP showed up, the one who took the swing at the soldiers started off on a tirade of how the soldiers blew his door up, ran in and started beating him and his friend with their rifles, kicking him, and then cuffed him and brought him to the Camp, even though he'd done nothing wrong. the KP, used to dealing with these people, called bullshit on him (as they'd be briefed by 3VP, and he didn't show a mark on his body), told him he'd resisted arrest, and they'd found more than enough evidence to convict him. It also didn't help that his partner in crime was cooperating fully with the KP, and had said they'd been approached weeks ago by members of the Taliban to store weapons for a modest sum of money. He also said that while the door being kicked in had scared him, he had been treated fairly. My point to this; it all boils down to a point of view.
 

Karlin

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Jun 27, 2004
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Mogz, it is a tricky one allright. The Taliban will use all sorts of tricks on soldiers and the citizens there.

i guess it is obvious that getting rid of Taliban will help Afghanis more than letting the Taliban take hold and get into government again.

Most Afghans don't really have the time to care about that, they are just trying to raise a family and get along as best they can in desperate times. I sure hope we are not making things tougher for them in our efforts to keep the Taliban out. It has been the case before where outside influences make things worse, as we just don't understand the situation there.
 

Mogz

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Jan 26, 2006
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Karlin,

While I have no doubt in my mind that the lives of Afghans isn't exactly perfect due to this ongoing war, i'm inclined to believe us being there will serve their best interests in the long run. I can't promise, or even claim, that the coalition has never done any damage. We have. We've hit civilians with our vehicles and killed them. We've damaged their property (sometimes intentionally, others unintentionally). We've roughed up some Afghans, but with due cause. And while I haven't been present for even 1% of all the Operations and/or incidences that have taken place, I like to think that we train our people to a standard that promotes the vaules of this nation and it's people. Do unfortuante circumstances happen? Yes, every day. I just don't think anyone wearing the same uniform as me would go out of his or her way to abuse the very people they're trying to help. Perhaps i'm biased.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Re: RE: Right In The Middle Of It

Mogz said:
Karlin,

While I have no doubt in my mind that the lives of Afghans isn't exactly perfect due to this ongoing war, i'm inclined to believe us being there will serve their best interests in the long run. I can't promise, or even claim, that the coalition has never done any damage. We have. We've hit civilians with our vehicles and killed them. We've damaged their property (sometimes intentionally, others unintentionally). We've roughed up some Afghans, but with due cause. And while I haven't been present for even 1% of all the Operations and/or incidences that have taken place, I like to think that we train our people to a standard that promotes the vaules of this nation and it's people. Do unfortuante circumstances happen? Yes, every day. I just don't think anyone wearing the same uniform as me would go out of his or her way to abuse the very people they're trying to help. Perhaps i'm biased.

I hope a person in the Canadian uniform would try to abuse an Afghan person directly and since there haven't been any cases of that nature that is a plus to the Canadian forces in Afghanistan. However, it has happened before and it would probably happen again at some point in time because you will have people of that makeup in any army and officers who would allow it.