Tories Urged to Re-open Abortion Issue

[FiveParadox]

:!: Point of Order

Before we get into the subject matter of this thread, it should be noted that this topic can become heated without warning. This issue can strike nerves with some members, and I would urge everyone to consider these things when posting in this thread — we should endeavour for an atmosphere of proper and considerate debate on what can be a very serious, and very sensitive, issue.

:arrow: Tories Urged to Re-open Abortion Issue

Thousands of demonstrators marched on Parliament Hill yesterday, to voice their opinion that the Government of Canada should introduce legislation to restrict access to abortion. Over one dozen Members of Parliament, from both the Conservative Party of Canada and the Liberal Party of Canada, and some Senators, addressed the crowd, urging them to push the Government to do so.

During the campaign for the Thirty-ninth General Election, the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada, stated that a Conservative-led Government would not be introducing any pieces of legislation in terms of abortion in the immediate future. However, Maurice Vellacott, M.P., the Member for Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, would not say whether or not the Conservative leader would support private legislation introduced by a backbench member in the House of Commons to restrict abortion.

Maurice Vellacott[/color], M.P.,]These are women that have actually had abortions and they feel they really had no choice, they were not properly informed. There is a growing awareness of unwanted abortions in the country, wherein men harass, badger, coerce ... it might be a boyfriend, partner, husband, employer, doctor, friend, family members, but a lot of the abortions that I gather women have had in the country are not so much by their own volition insofar as that they feel pressured by other circumstances.

Click here to read the entire article in English.
Cet article n'est pas disponible en français à ce temps.

:?: Sources
1. Click here for the Web site of CTV.

 

[Vicious]

RE: Tories Urged to Re-op

There is no political way to win with this issue. It will upset most people and any legislation regarding abortion is a bad idea.

 

[NaturalLemonFlavour]

No. No no no. I believe very strongly that abortion must remain a woman's choice.


Furthermore, the laws we have now seem to be doing just fine. Reopening abortion would be stepping onto a political landmine for the Conservatives. Not to mention that it would probably undermine their support in Quebec (which is ultimately a liberal with a lowercase l province).

 

[Hank C]

I think we need to confront this issue but now is not the time, it will just give the Liberals ammunition for the next election. After the Tories have a majority I would like to see both abortion (baby killing) and homosexual marriage revisited. In regards to ssm I would most likely support a move for granting civil unions.

 

[Colpy]

As the law stands in most other "liberal" nations on earth, I believe there are limits.

Partial birth abortion is murder. Period. State-sanctioned murder against the innocent.

As Ann Coulter said (paraphrased) "Liberals are people that would see babies partly born have their skulls penetrated by surgical instruments and their brains scrambled, and then smilingly claim somebody's rights were exercised. I don't WANT people like that to like me."

There needs to be term limits on abortion.

Further than that I would not push.

And NOTHING is going to happen, as the introduction of ANY abortion law would be political hemlock to the party that introduced it.

 

[FiveParadox]

Canada is in the unique position, among other "left-of-centre" nations on Earth, as having no mention of abortion in our Acts whatsoever (since the provisions in An Act respecting the Criminal Law {or, the Criminal Code of Canada} were struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada)¹; there was an attempt to legislate in relation to abortion in 1989, under the leadership of the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney, P.C., but the legislation was outright defeated by the Senate of Canada.

Colpy[/i]]As Ann Coulter said (paraphrased) "Liberals are people that would see babies partly born have their skulls penetrated by surgical instruments and their brains scrambled, and then smilingly claim somebody's rights were exercised. I don't WANT people like that to like me."

In the interest of civility, I am not going to address this passage.

Colpy[/i]]There needs to be term limits on abortion.

Under regular circumstances, I would agree; however, one can never anticipate every circumstance, and I would argue that there should be some mechanism by which exceptions can be made in exigent circumstances. As things stand, even without regulatory restrictions on abortion, somewhere in the area of ninety percent of abortions are performed during the first trimester, with less than four percent performed after the first sixteen weeks. Convention and common sense seem to play an important role here, even without legislation in place.

:!: Revision : (1) Corrected a typing error.

 

[tracy]

There are already limits on abortion. I can't believe how many people think you can wait until you're 9 months pregnant with a healthy baby and find a clinic that will partially deliver it and kill it. I've worked doing "elective" terminations in the second and third trimestre. Not once did I see them done for any reason other than health issues. Overwhelmingly they were wanted babies and I get so angry when people try to guilt trip a couple for making a very difficult choice. Late term abortion is just a wedge issue the conservatives like to use to inflame emotions about abortion in general.

I guess you can figure where I stand on this issue. I think the restrictions we have are reasonable. I don't think we need more. If you're against abortion, don't have one.

The honorouble member from Saskatoon should be working on ways to make child rearing more appealing if he wants to decrease abortion.

 

[BitWhys]

good post, tracy

 

[mabudon]

RE: Tories Urged to Re-op

Yes, truly a wedge issue in the purest sense- isn't it sort of odd that the "get government out of our personal lives" crowd is usually the one who gets the most strident concerning this invasion into one of the MOST personal aspects of the lives of citizens???

My wife damn near died having 2 REALLY bad experiences with pregnancy (before we were together) and if "every attempt" had to be made to save the life of her unborn, she would have likely been one very dead parent(there is little doubt that with extreme measures the baby could have been saved but she was informed that it would almost certainly pretty much spell her doom, this was explaind to her because she was identified as Catholic), so I have personal experience which makes me very leery of anyone stating absolute rights of the unborn over the rights of the mother.

Besides, as a purely wedge issue, I really don't see the countrywide value of such a debate, much like the hinted-at re-opening of the gay marriage "debate" (which is basically just a made-for-tv pissing contest anyways- I remember all of the bad things that were going to happen if it ever became a reality, and here we all still are, funny that)

Basically, if we as a country don't get SERIOUS about a whole lot of ACTUAL issues which wil determine the quality of ALL human life, this "issue" will be a moot point to the extreme, which makes wasting federal government time yelling about "sanctity of life" and "right to choose" seem kinda sad actually...

And for the record, I think a citizens personal choice as to matters related DIRECTLY to their interiors is an inalienable right, no matter what anyone else may "believe"

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Tories Urged to Re-open Abortion Issue

As Ann Coulter said (paraphrased) "Liberals are people that would see babies partly born have their skulls penetrated by surgical instruments and their brains scrambled, and then smilingly claim somebody's rights were exercised. I don't WANT people like that to like me."

Here's another one.

This is the way addled liberals really think. Even as they champion sucking the brains out of little babies, they think of themselves as indelibly compassionate because they favor an overweening, behemoth federal government. -- Ann Coulter

Liberals might be fun to drink with sometimes but....

 

[tracy]

So where is the Ann Coulter conservative plan to make motherhood more appealing than abortion?

 

[JonB2004]

I support abortion. I do think that there should be limits on how many abortions women have.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Tories Urged to Re-open Abortion Issue

So where is the Ann Coulter conservative plan to make motherhood more appealing than abortion?

Is making motherhood more appealing a government function?

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Tories Urged to Re-open Abortion Issue

So where is the Ann Coulter conservative plan to make motherhood more appealing than abortion?

Is making motherhood more appealing a government function?

If they are trying to legislate against it, then yes. Why should protecting the unborn be so important for the government to do, if as soon as they leave the uterus the government just forgets about em?

But, it doesn't have to be the government, I never mentionned them in that post. As Ann and her friends are always saying, the government doesn't need to do everything. So, if conservatives hate abortion so much, why don't they do something to stop the problem at the source rather than run to the big bad government to legislate against it?

 

[Grit86]

Maurice Vellacott[/color], M.P.,]These are women that have actually had abortions and they feel they really had no choice, they were not properly informed. There is a growing awareness of unwanted abortions in the country, wherein men harass, badger, coerce ... it might be a boyfriend, partner, husband, employer, doctor, friend, family members, but a lot of the abortions that I gather women have had in the country are not so much by their own volition insofar as that they feel pressured by other circumstances.

Click here to read the entire article in English.
Cet article n'est pas disponible en français à ce temps.

:?: Sources
1. Click here for the Web site of CTV.

Ok, so his plan to solve this (unfounded) problem is to restrict abortions for all Canadians? Sounds like phony lip service to conceal a larger motive if you ask me.

But what really gets me going is that the right-wing parties (Conservatives, Republicans) always harp on preserving freedom and "getting the government out of our lives". However, ever since the Conservative government has been elected, I have never been this scared about loosing some of those rights and freedoms.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

Re: RE: Tories Urged to Re-open Abortion Issue

I think we need to confront this issue but now is not the time, it will just give the Liberals ammunition for the next election. After the Tories have a majority I would like to see both abortion (baby killing) and homosexual marriage revisited. In regards to ssm I would most likely support a move for granting civil unions.

Gee, and people wonder why I don't like this city. :roll:

Yes, truly a wedge issue in the purest sense- isn't it sort of odd that the "get government out of our personal lives" crowd is usually the one who gets the most strident concerning this invasion into one of the MOST personal aspects of the lives of citizens???

Because conservatives don't actually want less government. What they really want is more government in the places that they agree with, like legislating morality.

Why can't people just leave well enough alone? That the end result is a human child, doesn't make a fetus anything more than a parasite. If a woman wants to take measures to cure herself of that parasite, it is her decision. If she wants to let it continue living, that is also her decision. Until it can live without her body's direct support, it is nothing more than a parasite.

As for Ann Coulter, if she is your source you've got serious bias issues.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Tories Urged to Re-open Abortion Issue

There are already limits on abortion. I can't believe how many people think you can wait until you're 9 months pregnant with a healthy baby and find a clinic that will partially deliver it and kill it. I've worked doing "elective" terminations in the second and third trimestre. Not once did I see them done for any reason other than health issues. Overwhelmingly they were wanted babies and I get so angry when people try to guilt trip a couple for making a very difficult choice. Late term abortion is just a wedge issue the conservatives like to use to inflame emotions about abortion in general.

I guess you can figure where I stand on this issue. I think the restrictions we have are reasonable. I don't think we need more. If you're against abortion, don't have one.

The honorouble member from Saskatoon should be working on ways to make child rearing more appealing if he wants to decrease abortion.

That is a good post, Tracy.

Now, define "health issues".

Please don't misunderstand, I believe there ARE health reasons for late term abortions, and I hate the guilt trip often dumped on very young ladies who have early abortions. That guilt trip would be even more disgusting applied to a woman who got a late term abortion out of necessity.

I don't usually get involved in these discussions, as it cuts a little close to home. Many, many years ago a girlfriend got an abortion for "health reasons", that being her mental well-being, which was (believe me) more harmed by getting the abortion than if she had given the baby up.

But I try not to be unreasonably emotional on the subject.

 

[Kreskin]

If anyone party wants to make a quick exit from the politics they can try legislating forced birth in Canada.

 

[Colpy]

As for Ann Coulter, if she is your source you've got serious bias issues.

Personally, I think Coulter is a little nuts, but sometimes she overstates the case in a way that wonderfully illuminates the truth.

In most cases, she's over the edge.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

As for Ann Coulter, if she is your source you've got serious bias issues.

Personally, I think Coulter is a little nuts, but sometimes she overstates the case in a way that wonderfully illuminates the truth.

In most cases, she's over the edge.

A little nuts?!? In most cases?!?

8O

This is the woman who said that Canada should watch out or the US would roll over and crush us. :roll: