Harper - Secrecy & Hypocrisy

[Socrates the Greek]

Socrates argues that the best ruler must always be someone who knows how to rule, someone who understands ruling as a craft. But since crafts of any sort invariably aim to produce some external goal (Gk. teloV [télos]), good practitioners of each craft always act for the sake of that goal, never in their own interest alone. Thus, good rulers, like good shepherds, must try to do what is best for those who have been entrusted to them, rather than seeking their own welfare. (Republic 342e)


Harper campained in open Government. Open is what the Canadian voter voted for. He told the Candian people give the Conservatives a chance to clean Ottawa from the Liberal dictatorship, and Harper is serpacing in dictatorship colors the Liberals. Black and white do as I say not as I do. Hepocracy all over.

 

[FiveParadox]

Harper's Conduct Thus Far

Socrates the Greek, I would agree that the conduct of the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada has been, at this point, lacking transparency, in terms of his relationship with the media, and in terms of his decisions to no longer announce visits by heads of state, premiers, or other persons. However, seeing as how it is only mere weeks into his mandate, it may be appropriate to give him some time to adjust to how things should be done, and how they are expected to be done.

Canadians are watching, though.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Good day Paradox and they are watching in deed. The only problem I see in the horizon is that Democracy will be compromised under Harpers guard. Looking at some early sings we see that Democracy is not in the Harper card hand, and the people are witnessing a bluff which will blow up on Harper as he moves closer to Election Day. They say you can fool some people some time, but you can not fool all people all the time. The rest we go on watching the same movie one more time from the Conservatives. Hey no question the Liberals messed up at the end of their 12 years in power. Let us not forget that the economy is in a better position then it has ever been here in Canada. Once a while a change helps only for the better of this great country. To progress not to digress is the order of the day. To shut the door as a Government and tell the Canadian voter you speak when you have been spoken too, is far from a democratic society it doesn’t matter how new the Government of the day happened to be. Respect for the citizen must be an irrevocable commitment.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Good day Paradox and they are watching in deed. The only problem I see in the horizon is that Democracy will be compromised under Harpers guard. Looking at some early sings we see that Democracy is not in the Harper card hand, and the people are witnessing a bluff which will blow up on Harper as he moves closer to Election Day. They say you can fool some people some time, but you can not fool all people all the time. The rest we go on watching the same movie one more time from the Conservatives. Hey no question the Liberals messed up at the end of their 12 years in power. Let us not forget that the economy is in a better position then it has ever been here in Canada. Once a while a change helps only for the better of this great country. To progress not to digress is the order of the day. To shut the door as a Government and tell the Canadian voter you speak when you have been spoken too, is far from a democratic society it doesn’t matter how new the Government of the day happened to be. Respect for the citizen must be an irrevocable commitment.

8O :lol: :lol:

This is a joke, right?

Exactly when did the media become the arbiters of Canadian democracy?

The Liberals were, and are a corrupt, arrogant,useless bunch. That may change with the leadership contest, but I doubt it.

They most certainly don't deserve pwer for awhile at least.

I think Liberals looking for a mote in Harper's eye had best check out the pulp log in their own.

 

[FiveParadox]

J'suis d'accord • Democracy Under Harper

Good day to you too, Socrates the Greek.

However, at this point, I would not yet suggest that the conduct of Mr. Harper has affected the democratic process in the institutions of our Parliament of Canada (except, perhaps, refusing to bring about a vote on the mission in the Islamic Republic in Afghanistan at the request of the New Democratic Party of Canada — but there were strong arguments on both sides of the spectrum both in favour of and opposed to having a vote on the issue).

I would however, suggest that Mr. Harper should keep the interests of citizens (in terms of continuing to represent ourselves as a democratic nation) at heart, during this Thirty-ninth Parliament of Canada. I opposed the decision to decide not to record a vote in the House of Commons on the Speech From the Throne (as a rule, I don't care for motions that "deem" any substantive measure to be adopted; I believe the previous Government of Canada had done something like this in a previous session too, though, so both parties are scorned by me on that particular issue).

Hey, Colpy! How are you this morning (or afternoon, depending on your timezone, I suppose)? In terms of the media, no, I don't think that they represent any sort of "institution" of democracy, by themselves — however, I think that it would be a reasonable assessment to say that the media provides much-needed information to the people of Canada, so that appropriate decisions can be rendered whenever we happen to be dropped into the Fortieth General Election. They are perhaps an "instrument" of¹ democracy, rather than an institution (in my opinion) — however, I would suggest that they are, in fact, an important part of the process; the Parliament of Canada should be open to everyone, and I would assert that we, by proxy, can be there through the media.

There's my two cents in this debate for now.

:!: Revision : (1) Corrected a typing error.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

The right to scrutiny is a right that belongs to the citizen. The media is the massager for the citizen, and any Government who especially on a minority position tells the media never mind reporting to the citizen, we will talk to the citizen our self’s, well let me tell you my great Canadian Conservative pal, Democracy has been compromised and election day will be the settlement day for the Gestapo style bozos who think that they will fool the voter to squander their vote on the empty campaign promise of open Government.

 

[BitWhys]

Riel took the fort, then he seized the press. I'm sure he at least appeared to think THAT was in the public interest as well.

 

[Jay]

You would think there was a gag order on the Press or something.

 

[BitWhys]

nah

just Cabinet

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid, Adolf Harper.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Harpoeconomics, more deficits on top of more deficits and some more deficits. Glue glue and more glue. I am running out of solvent to clean the glue. Unemployment is at its lowest point in Canada for the past 12 years thanks to the Liberals and no thanks to the Cons. 20Billion in the glue under Lying Brian Mulroney, and Harper wants to spend money on the military which he doesn’t have. More glue coming up on Harpoeconomics.

 

[Jay]

I'm running out of towels trying to clean up the BS.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

The right to scrutiny is a right that belongs to the citizen. The media is the massager for the citizen, and any Government who especially on a minority position tells the media never mind reporting to the citizen, we will talk to the citizen our self’s, well let me tell you my great Canadian Conservative pal, Democracy has been compromised and election day will be the settlement day for the Gestapo style bozos who think that they will fool the voter to squander their vote on the empty campaign promise of open Government.

When, exactly, did Harper order the media to stop reporting?

Is not Question Period televised?

FIVE, if this were the United States, where there is no opposition opportunity to hold the gov't's feet to the fire a' la Question Period, I would agree that limiting access to members was a questionable assault on the public's right to know. Here, however, questioning the gov't is not primarily a role of media, but of the Opposition, and that is widely televised.

Harper is simply trying to keep his government on message. No news has been censored, freedom of speech is not threatened.

Hi, BTW

The following is not for you Five, as you are one of the few Liberals willing to "wait and see" when it comes to Harper.

The others seem to behave like a cross between a toddler whose ice cream has just been snatched, and a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

Excuse my obsession, but I get a huge kick out of Liberal supporters claiming Harper is undemocratic.

Remember the Liberal attempts to insert news CENSORS into the CBC after the APEC fiasco? Funny, I don't remember strong protests from Liberals against a REAL threat to freedom of the press.

Jean Chretien......and the Liberal Party of Canada......now there's a threat to democracy.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Harpoeconomics, more deficits on top of more deficits and some more deficits. Glue glue and more glue. I am running out of solvent to clean the glue. Unemployment is at its lowest point in Canada for the past 12 years thanks to the Liberals and no thanks to the Cons. 20Billion in the glue under Lying Brian Mulroney, and Harper wants to spend money on the military which he doesn’t have. More glue coming up on Harpoeconomics.

SPARE ME!

At least stick to reality.

There will be NO deficits under Harper. NONE!

And the gov't is swimming in money.

Now I know you guys would rather spend it ensuring latte-drinking, SUV driving, rich, urbanite soccer moms get free day care, (and thus still vote Liberal), but I happen to think the military is important. As do most Canadians.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid.

Now here is the most intelligent argument against Harper I have yet read. 8O

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

SPARE ME!

At least stick to reality.

There will be NO deficits under Harper. NONE!;...

so you've found that $29.1B in promises the fiscal plan doesn't account for?

cool!!!

tell me all about it. I'm all ears.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

You cons are using an American script when your critical of views left of yours, the language you use is republican and fundemental christian so it's not hard to tell whose agenda you're working for. Ya'll got Neocon Harpomania.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Harpocracy,Harpocratic, Harpocon, Harpington, Harporization, Harperlarious, Harpasterous, Harpolong Cassidy and the Sunburned Kid, Adolf Harper.

8O

DB has a sense of humor, I think. :lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Harper - Secrecy & Hy

Oil at $71.35 a barrel today, Harper in a news conferance today said he thought the Iran talk had no bearing on that price, every analyst I heard today said that concern about Iran was directly responsible for that price. Now Harper was either lying or he's to stupid to be in power. Which reason do you prefer?