Afghan mission benefitical to Military

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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VANCOUVER (CP) - Canada's military mission in Afghanistan will be a testing ground for future leaders of the armed forces, entrenching a change that began at the end of the Cold War, says one of Canada's most celebrated soldiers.

Retired major-general Lewis MacKenzie says despite public concern about casualties, the military will come out stronger from the Afghan experience and those who served there "will have a leg up on their colleagues down the road."

Canada has about 2,200 military personnel deployed in its operations to suppress the Taliban in and around Kandahar.

Unless the government does an about-face, thousands more Canadian soldiers will rotate through the mission over the next few years.

Their performance will influence, accelerate or kill their future careers and the Afghan veterans who rise up the ranks will help shape Canada's armed forces.

But a spokeswoman at National Defence headquarters says there's no crush of volunteers looking to burnish their personnel files with a stint in Kandahar.

"There hasn't really been a bunch of people saying 'I want to go to Afghanistan so I can further my promotion possibilities.,'" says Cmdr. Denise Laviolette, chief of public affairs at military personnel, the office that handles promotion and selection boards.

The military wants well-rounded leaders, she says, which means along with overseas deployment, holding staff appointments, serving as training instructors and undertaking academic and language studies.

Only about 400 soldiers in Canada's Kandahar contingent belong to the "sharp end" - the units conducting actual combat patrols. The rest are in crucial logistical and planning positions.

"I would be very, very surprised if there wasn't a long waiting list, or at least a long list they had to choose from, to pick those staff officers and (non-commissioned officers) going over there," says MacKenzie, who rose to fame leading a United Nations force during the Bosnian civil war in 1992.

He says that since the end of the Cold War in 1989, the Canadian military establishment has rediscovered the value of commanders with field experience, especially if it's gained in hot zones such as Kandahar.

"You're damn right it does (make a difference) and it should, too," says MacKenzie.

"We now have a cabal of folks at the top that understand what it's like in the field and understand operational requirements. That wasn't necessarily the case with previous chiefs."

A casual look at the biographies of Canada's 80-odd generals, admirals and commodores shows many now in key positions held operational commands during some of Canada's more dangerous overseas missions such as Bosnia, the Kosovo intervention and Afghanistan.

The trend is epitomized by Gen. Rick Hillier, who went from heading the NATO-led force in Kabul in 2003 to becoming chief of the defence staff last year.

The depth of operational experience isn't suprising, says Laviolette, given the demand for Canada's military in tense parts of the world after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

"These days there's sailors walking around with medals for deployment to Cambodia, to Bosnia, to everywhere else in the world," she says. "That's just an indication of how things have changed since the end of the Cold War."

MacKenzie, whose 36-year career included a stint in military personnel at headquarters, recalls a time the armed forces played down performance in UN missions, which were usually commanded by foreign generals.

"I can tell you that until the end of the Cold War, in actual fact deployment - volunteering for and serving on operational duty - was a detriment to your career primarily because while you were serving in those operational theatres, your assessments were being written by foreigners," he says.

For anyone interested in the top jobs, time spent away from the orbit of National Defence HQ was time wasted.

"Nobody heard about you because there was nothing much happening until the end of the Cold War when it was no longer peacekeeping and things were getting nasty," says MacKenzie.

That changed partly because of MacKenzie's success in the crumbling former Yugoslavia, especially in opening Sarajevo airport to humanitarian aid.

"Because the contingent and the Canadians received such positive press it then became flavour of the month to try and get on an operational tour and get some positive coverage, not just in the media but amongst your colleagues too," says MacKenzie.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?src=n041613A.xml
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Afghan mission benefi

When the man's right, he's right. MacKenzie has always understood the Forces in the broad sense of the term. A crucial factor the CF Lacked for years was combat experienced leadership. Yes we had soldiers throughout the 90's who experienced combat, but the higher ups, field grade officers and generals never saw the reality of the World outside of NDHQ. With Canada pumping large amounts of soldiers in to 'Ghan, the opportunity for higher ranking leaders spending time in theatre has expanded. Hillier is a prime example of this.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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With all due respect...

Canadian forces operating under the aegis of the United Nations have been deployed all over the world for decades. From Cypress and the Beligan Congo to Korea and throughout the middle East. The argument that participation in a conflict like the assinine nonsense taking place in Afghanistan is sizzle and little else. While letting the Canadian forces suffer through a lack of support both in terms of adequate funding for training materiel and hardware, Canada has arguably been able to meet its obligations to NATO and defense commitment for years. Instead of establishing a policy that keeps Canadian forces equipped properly, our political system has permitted training and equipment to be relegated far far down on the list of "appropriate" spending...by both Liberal and Conservative governments. As Canadians paying for a national military defence establishment, we've been lied to and hoodwinked for years. Now when the petroleum industries of the United States armed the tribes of Afghanistan to repel the Soviet effort to build a pipeline....and abetted the Pakistani radical Islamists...the Taliban...Canada is encouraged to contribute to the "effort".... with out-dated material and equipment...poorly concieved poorly provisioned and poorly thought through.

Canada shouldn't be involved in Afghanistan period.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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Afghanistan should have only our best hope for thier future, our new tanks should go to the border somewhere arround Windsor.
No waaaaay, Beav. They should be stationed around Parliament Hill pointing in at it with a large billboard behind each one that says something like: "It would be beneficial to your health if you didn't aggravate us citizen types".
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
With all due respect...

Canadian forces operating under the aegis of the United Nations have been deployed all over the world for decades. From Cypress and the Beligan Congo to Korea and throughout the middle East. The argument that participation in a conflict like the assinine nonsense taking place in Afghanistan is sizzle and little else. While letting the Canadian forces suffer through a lack of support both in terms of adequate funding for training materiel and hardware, Canada has arguably been able to meet its obligations to NATO and defense commitment for years. Instead of establishing a policy that keeps Canadian forces equipped properly, our political system has permitted training and equipment to be relegated far far down on the list of "appropriate" spending...by both Liberal and Conservative governments. As Canadians paying for a national military defence establishment, we've been lied to and hoodwinked for years. Now when the petroleum industries of the United States armed the tribes of Afghanistan to repel the Soviet effort to build a pipeline....and abetted the Pakistani radical Islamists...the Taliban...Canada is encouraged to contribute to the "effort".... with out-dated material and equipment...poorly concieved poorly provisioned and poorly thought through.

Canada shouldn't be involved in Afghanistan period.

You know, it's really nice coming back from spending 3 months in Afghanistan to see this forum hasn't changed at ALL.

With that said, i'll address your tripe:

I can tell that by your post, you have no clear concept of how the military has, or does function. You claim that we have been able to meet our "obligations to NATO and defense commitment for years", when in reality we've been unable to do so. The Canadian Government has always been masters of smoke and mirrors when it comes to National Defense. Our so called "commitments" to NATO, while yes appearing pretty on paper, mangled the military. We deployed to Croatia with NO substantial equipment and men and women bone tired from rotos in the Persian Gulf, Rwanda, and Somalia. We've sent soldiers to hot spots all over the World with out dated gear, and out dated doctrine. More often than not those same soldiers were fresh off of previous deployments. By the end of the 90's our military was worn to the bone, both physically and mentally. With all that in mind, how can one make the claim that we met our obligations to NATO, let alone our own Nation? Deploying 200 troops to Eritrea to rove across a few square miles did NOTING to avert the crisis, it was a token force, as were most of the forces we sent throughout the 80's and 90's. I ask how a Nation that could not even properly equip their troops with body armor in the late 90's, have defended Canada from a SERIOUS threat? Hell we couldn't even stop the Spanish from fishing cod off the coast of Newfoundland, let alone avert a major crisis. No, we never honored our commitments to NATO, and we most certainly were never in a position to protect this Country from harm.

With regard to Canada and Afghanistan; I really fail to see how, after six years in that Country, people can still cling to the "it's all about oil" theory. I've spent a total of 10 months in Afghanistan now, and i've yet to see this mythical pipeline, or Western Nations raping Afghanistan for oil. I've driven a vast majority of Afghanistan, and all i've ever seen is the gradual transformation of Afghanistan from a dark ages civilization to a modern, prosperous Nation. At the beginning of this post you make mention of previous Canadian missions, yet utterly fail to realize that in Afghanistan, Canada is doing the exact same thing we always do: Providing Stability. We helped to stabilize Cypress. We quelled The Balkans, and we sorted out Haiti to the best of our ability. In all three of those conflicts, in orders for us to bring peace and stability, we had to use force. The same goes for Afghanistan, it's only difference to the aforementioned conflicts, is that in Afghanistan, it's a bigger enemy and more f.ucked up Nation. The real pity is that the United States invaded Iraq, for if it were not for that debacle, no one would care about Afghanistan. Instead, the ill informed of Canada (i'm looking at you MikeyDB), have seen fit to jump on the "anti-america, anti-war, anti-oil bandwagon", not realizing that the differences between Afghanistan and Iraq are massive.

Lastly, with respect to the Canadian military in Afghanistan. Currently, man for man, vehicle for vehicle, we are the best equipped forces in that theater of operations. Our gear is not out dated; we have top of the line armored vehicles, our light vehicles (Gwagons and RG-31s) are top of the line. Our weapons are now surpassing what the U.S. has in theater (pak 4's for one example), and our soldiers are currently out fitted with the most state of the art body armor available on the market. The same cannot be said for the rank and file soldiers of the U.S., Britain, or Denmark. If you're going to make a claim, at least look in to it before hand.
 
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karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Well, there ya go.
Anyone else who's been there have an opinion?

I have a million and one sarcastic comments to pull out about the judgements people make from the comfort of the armchair resting in front of their tv screens, but I'll just sit on them.

A round of applause to Canadian soldiers who put their lives on the line to bring stability to Afghanistan. And a bag of slaps for anyone who disagrees with me tonight. lol.