Why are we in Afghanistan

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Why are we in Afghanistan? (2)


The people of Afghanistan want peace. The occupiers and their puppet and former Unocal employee, Hamid Karzai, want oil.




>by Canadian Peace Alliance
April 10, 2006

Canada has 2250 Canadian soldiers stationed in Kandahar Afghanistan. The soldiers are fighting alongside about 8,000 U.S. soldiers and are under the command of Operation Archer in support of the U.S. led “Operation Enduring Freedom.” It is expected that command of the Canadian units will shift to NATO control by 2007.

Canada is operating along the southern border between Pakistan and Afghanistan in Kandahar province. This is a crucial area for two reasons: it is the location of Taliban strongholds and it is the proposed route for the multibillion dollar Trans-Afghan pipeline.

It is no secret that since the collapse of the Soviet Union, U.S. oil companies have been keen to exploit Caspian Sea oil and gas. They lobbied the Clinton administration to have a pipeline built from Turkmenistan in the north through Afghanistan to ports in Pakistan. They see even more opportunity with George Bush as president.

Afghanistan is important to U.S. oil companies because it is the only route that would provide total control for them. The other possible routes for the pipeline run through Iran, an enemy of the U.S., China, a competitor of the U.S., or Russia, an unreliable and heavily armed ally.

The Department of National Defence says that Canadians, and the other international forces, are there to “reinforce the authority of the Afghan government in and around Kandahar and help local authorities stabilize and rebuild the region.”

Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan is considered a U.S. puppet by most Afghans. His authority outside Kabul is merely symbolic. Local control in the provinces is left to a mix of opium gangsters, former Taliban commanders and tribal elders. Mark Schneider, president of International Crisis Group has said, “It's not merely about drug money financing candidates. Drug lords are candidates.”

The United States and the Karzai Administration are, in most cases, happy to work and make deals with these local rulers. According to of Human Rights Watch the majority (60 per cent) of those elected to the Afghan parliament in the October 18, 2005 elections were these local criminals and power brokers or their associates.

U.S. forces and allied local warlords are responsible for human rights abuses in the country. According to Human Rights Watch: “U.S. forces operating against Taliban insurgents continue to generate numerous claims of human rights abuses against the civilian population, including arbitrary arrests, use of excessive force, and mistreatment of detainees … Local military and police forces, even in Kabul, have been involved in arbitrary arrests, kidnapping, extortion, torture and extrajudicial killings of criminal suspects.

“Outside Kabul, commanders and their troops in many areas have been implicated in widespread rape of women, girls and boys, murder, illegal detention, forced displacement, and other specific abuses against women and children, including human trafficking and forced marriage.”

According to the much-publicized remarks of General Rick Hillier, Canadians are in Afghanistan to “kill detestable murderers and scumbags.” The reality is that we are supporting some of the worst human rights abusers the country has ever seen. This deadly combination of abuses by both U.S. forces and their local allies ensures that Canadians will face growing resistance from the Afghan people.

State of reconstruction

We are told that the Canadian soldiers will be engaging in development work as part of their mission. This type of inter

www.rabble.ca/news_fullstory.shtml?x=49010
 

cortezzz

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2006
663
0
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if not for oil then for what
911--ha
if you wanted to save american lives youd have some kind of gun control program
or social justice program

jim
you are banging on two drums
one with yer right hand
one with yer left

i hope you find this entertaining
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: Why are we in Afghanistan

jimmoyer said:
We'd get more oil invading Mexico and Canada
than this paltry crap in Afghanistan.

You're just banging the same drumbeat like
all leftwingers and rightwingers who practice self-hypnosis.


shhhhhhhhhh... what are you doing... *hides under his desk* don't let out the secret or we will be next...


hehehehe
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
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Re: RE: Why are we in Afghanistan

jimmoyer said:
We'd get more oil invading Mexico and Canada
than this paltry crap in Afghanistan.

You're just banging the same drumbeat like
all leftwingers and rightwingers who practice self-hypnosis.


Wrong, afganisthan is for a piple line , that will reach and provide oil to china, nice try.

You even get way more oil in venuzuela than iraq, but the problem in iraq, oil is easier to extract than anywhere else in the world, and more importantly your oil coorporation are sucking it at a ridicoulus price given to iraqie to reconstruct what your great governement did to them.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Does it always have to be about oil and "stealing" a country's natural resources? When there is no oil we have to come up with a pipeline? Even if the pipeline will go forward, was that the reason the US invaded Afghanistan? I thought it was all about harboring terrorists, silly me.

So Iran is an enemy, building a pipeline through there doesn't appear to be feasible. I'll agree to that.

China is a competitor, to whom? The oil companies? If anything they would welcome the pipeline in exchange for some of that precious liquid they have been running around the planet trying to buy.

Russia is an unreliable and well armed ally? Ally. Hello? Let's say it again. Ally. For a country still trying to recover from the collapse of the Soviet Union, shouldn't they be jumping through hoops at the prospect of selling their oil via pipeline?

And Karzai is a puppet, how incredibly pompous! Afghanistan had nearly 80% voter turnout with international organizations following the election process.

Sad the left can never make any credible arguments, very sad indeed.
 

LittleRunningGag

Electoral Member
Jan 11, 2006
611
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members.shaw.ca
RE: Why are we in Afghani

Don't lump all the left in with a few fools that only see idealism. Not all of the left is like that. Just like not all of the right are freedom hating nationalists. Just some idiots on the extremes.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Why are we in Afghani

LittleRunningGag said:
Just like not all of the right are freedom hating nationalists.

That is reserved for anti-American lefties in Canada...come on, I thought everyone knew that. I mean when do you hear the right screaming no two tier health care in Canada?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Why are we in Afghanistan

aeon said:
Wrong, afganisthan is for a piple line , that will reach and provide oil to china, nice try.

So the US went to war so China can get oil? Yes that makes perfect sense to me. The pipeline if I am not mistaken is to provide gas, and the projected largest buyer of this gas is India, maybe we went to war for India instead of China.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
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RE: Why are we in Afghani

I don't think the US's stated "interests" have anything to do with international diplomacy or even nations, really, it's more about specific people benefitting, which is why the admin's policies seem so reckless- they don't really care about the upshot on the wolrd as a whole, or any group of people, not even the citizens of their own country....

Thinking that the United States as a COUNTRY will benefit from either of the current middle eastern wars is an all-too-common misconception
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
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No. They weren’t solely interested in making war with Afghanistan for it’s pipeline. The interest in the pipeline however does effect the dynamics as to what type of commitment the US decided to make with the invasion.

Also note the United States oil industry did try to court the Taliban prior to 911, regardless of the human rights abuses they committed. This due to the US interest in a pipeline. With that well documented it shows that there isn’t necessarily an interest in the welfare of Afghans when weighed against economic concerns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.stm

The pipeline is Afghanistan's biggest foreign investment project

Afghanistan hopes to strike a deal later this month to build a $2bn pipeline through the country to take gas from energy-rich Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India.

Afghan interim ruler Hamid Karzai is to hold talks with his Pakistani and Turkmenistan counterparts later this month on Afghanistan's biggest foreign investment project, said Mohammad Alim Razim, minister for Mines and Industries told Reuters.

"The work on the project will start after an agreement is expected to be struck at the coming summit," Mr Razim said.

The construction of the 850-kilometre pipeline had been previously discussed between Afghanistan's former Taliban regime, US oil company Unocal and Bridas of Argentina.

The project was abandoned after the US launched missile attacks on Afghanistan in 1999.

US company preferred

Mr Razim said US energy company Unocal was the "lead company" among those that would build the pipeline, which would bring 30bn cubic meters of Turkmen gas to market annually.

http://www.mapcruzin.com/news/war111901a.htm

Oil barons court Taliban in Texas (fact is far stranger than fiction)
Fair Use Statement

<-- Return To 21st Century Warfare

Source: The Telegraph

Note: This article was written just a short four years ago. Where was the outcry about various Taliban atrocities? Note that even now, some of the 'evil' Taliban may be left in power. Whomever is left in power, will we once again turn a blind eye? -- fact is far stranger than fiction.

12/14/1997

Oil barons court Taliban in Texas By Caroline Lees

THE Taliban, Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist army, is about to sign a £2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country.

The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Last week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay.

The Taliban ministers and their advisers stayed in a five-star hotel and were chauffeured in a company minibus. Their only requests were to visit Houston's zoo, the Nasa space centre and Omaha's Super Target discount store to buy stockings, toothpaste, combs and soap. The Taliban, which controls two-thirds of Afghanistan and is still fighting for the last third, was also given an insight into how the other half lives.

The men, who are accustomed to life without heating, electricity or running water, were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to dinner at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal, they marvelled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six bathrooms. After a meal of specially prepared halal meat, rice and Coca-Cola, the hardline fundamentalists - who have banned women from working and girls from going to school - asked Mr Miller about his Christmas tree.
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
11
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Canada
Re: RE: Why are we in Afghanistan

jimmoyer said:
We'd get more oil invading Mexico and Canada
than this paltry crap in Afghanistan.

You're just banging the same drumbeat like
all leftwingers and rightwingers who practice self-hypnosis.


But you can't invade Mexico or Canada. The United States still has to at least try to justify an invasion to the world. Oh, you do remember the line, "Weapons of Mass Destruction" don't you?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Re: RE: Why are we in Afghanistan

jimmoyer said:
We'd get more oil invading Mexico and Canada
than this paltry crap in Afghanistan.

You're just banging the same drumbeat like
all leftwingers and rightwingers who practice self-hypnosis.

Where do you fit in the people spectrum Jim, you are very carefull to fall into no camp, is commitment a problem for you. While the left and the right may be hypnotized as you put it, how have you escaped the human condition, do you walk among us as a singularity.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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38
Jim has said he is a conservative in other threads.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
I think not said:
Does it always have to be about oil and "stealing" a country's natural resources? When there is no oil we have to come up with a pipeline? Even if the pipeline will go forward, was that the reason the US invaded Afghanistan? I thought it was all about harboring terrorists, silly me.

So Iran is an enemy, building a pipeline through there doesn't appear to be feasible. I'll agree to that.

China is a competitor, to whom? The oil companies? If anything they would welcome the pipeline in exchange for some of that precious liquid they have been running around the planet trying to buy.

Russia is an unreliable and well armed ally? Ally. Hello? Let's say it again. Ally. For a country still trying to recover from the collapse of the Soviet Union, shouldn't they be jumping through hoops at the prospect of selling their oil via pipeline?

And Karzai is a puppet, how incredibly pompous! Afghanistan had nearly 80% voter turnout with international organizations following the election process.

Sad the left can never make any credible arguments, very sad indeed.

Yes ITN it is always about theft of resources, the terrorism thing is just funny.
China would like some oil yes, and the USA would like to control the supply and price of that oil.
Rather than still trying to recover from the collapse of the Soviet Union they are really still trying to recover from the World Bank.
Karsi is an American puppet Afghans voted for democracy when they don't even know what it is and they can't read anything to find out independently what it might be.
The right can never make use of the truth because it condemns them everytime.
 

LittleRunningGag

Electoral Member
Jan 11, 2006
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Calgary, Alberta
members.shaw.ca
Re: RE: Why are we in Afghani

Jay said:
LittleRunningGag said:
Just like not all of the right are freedom hating nationalists.

That is reserved for anti-American lefties in Canada...come on, I thought everyone knew that. I mean when do you hear the right screaming no two tier health care in Canada?

Dammit, I can't tell if you are being facetious.

I should make a correction to what I said. Not all of the right are sexually repressed, freedom hating, nationalists.

As for the anti-Americanism, when exactly did disagreeing with American policy become anti-Americanism? When exactly did the Canadian right steal phrases from their compatriots to the south about how disagreeing with the government is unAmerican?

Here's one, can you identify the famous person that made this fabulous quote?

"I think that we should support President Bush because he's the President."
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
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Ten reasons to stay in Afghanistan
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5. Treaty Obligations: On September 12, 2001, NATO invoked for the first time its self-defence clause -- Article 5 of the Washington Treaty -- asking NATO members to support a U.S.-led mission in Afghanistan. Since that time, Canada has shared the burden, politically and military.

When NATO took command of the Afghanistan mission in 2003 under a new UN Security Council Resolution, all 19 members committed to stability and reconstruction in the country, including Canada. It should continue to fulfill its obligations.
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http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...l?id=4d5850f8-6ecb-49df-8991-9452ee5dc300&p=1

(Indeed, America seems to have more confidence in Canadian soldiers than Canadians do.)
8O
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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A note to jimmoyer, I am one of those left wingers and damn proud of it, most of the time. And we don't all beat the same drum.
Yes we should be in Afghanistan, not because of NATO, who I could care less about, not because there is or is no oil, by the way Afghanistan doesn't have oil, but because it is the right thing to do.
The Taliban and others not only attacked the USA, they attacked every nation who had people in those two towers. If Canadians are going to do humanitarian work in the region they have to protect their own troops, and the people they are helping. To expect them to do less would be asking our soldiers to commit suicide.
I support the Afghan mission and the role of all allied forces there.
I do not support the international criminal activity of the Americans in Iraq however, as that conflict and all the misery created never needed to happen.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
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Support for Troops

Hear, hear, damngrumpy!

In terms of my support for the Canadian Forces, I support our women and men one hundred per cent — however, I recognize that Canada is a democratic nation and, as such, at certain times, questions are going to arise that need to be considered, discussed and debated by our elected representatives (namely our Members of Parliament). A wish to debate and discuss a mission, however, are not derogative of our support of the Forces, and it should not be construed as such — pleads for debate stem out of concern for these people, not disrespect, and I want to be one hundred per cent clear when I say that it is possible to support democracy, and our armed women and men, at the same time.

I support the mission in the Islamic Republic in Afghanistan, insofar as we are participating in the interests of Canada. However, if there is a point at which the people of Canada no longer think that the ends justify the means, or that the situation no longer warrants the presence of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan, then of course the Government of Canada should make an effort to seek the opinion of the people at a reasonable speed, and to seriously consider that opinion when the next decision is made as to whether or not to renew the mission at the next opportunity.

We are in Afghanistan for both the Afghani and the Canadian people, and for the prospect of peace — we are bound to remain there only by our own convictions.