Keeping clear of America

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

For those who don't want us to have closer relations with the US I honestly wonder if they are dealing with reality

At present our economies are so interdependent that if the US were to cut trade and ties we would collapse economically.

Cheers
M

 

[Sassylassie]

Spot on Retired-Can-Soldier but reality does not seem to get the interest that plots and secret government planning does.

 

[Kreskin]

So would their economy. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Sassylassie]

I agree Kreskin, the USA is a great neighbour and in times of need she'll be there for Canada. I long for the day a Bush was just a shrub and not an object of hatred.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I understand and both of you are right. Economically Canada and the United States are now interdependent. The attitude that Canada should distance itself from its biggest trading partner is strangely similar to that of Quebec separtists who truly believe that separating from Canada and still maintain the benefits of Federalism.

Kind of like the Ex wife who won't stop dragging you into court. Oh crap I started ranting on Quebec, someone please stop me...............

 

[Finder]

I think there is a very small minoritiy of Canadians who do not wish to be close trading partners with the USA and friendly relations. However, there is a larger amount of people who do wish to have friendly relations with the USA as nabours but not to be too tied to them, nor act as if we are their puppet. Having a disagreement with the USA doesn't mean we hate them, or don't wish to be friends with them, it means we have a disagreement with them. I don't understand those Canadians among us who believe that a disagreement is automatically hateful, or wishing us not to be friends with our nabours to the south.

Also what I don't understand is when some Canadians say we don't want to be Americans we want to be Canadians why some Canadians take this as anti-americanism, I think it's pro-canadianism. For those of you who wish Canada to be apart of the USA, or a puppet of the USA, why don't you stop abusing our system, and leave Canada for your beautiful America, it's just a hope skip and a jump away. If not get used to the Idea we are not the USA, we can be friends with the USA and disagree with them, and tell our politicians to make sure we don't get too cute with them.

 

[Curiosity]

Feel the love here.....

 

[Finder]

Feel the love here.....

I feel bad for that emote Wednesday...

Hey I shoot from the hips and I think the American's... in general... are nice people when they aren't bombing people. I also like them as nabours... but I also like Canada and want Canada to be Canada, not America Jr and I think wanting Canada to be Canada is not Anti-Americanism. We don't have to do everything the USA tells us to do and doing our own thing now and then shouldn't be seen as anti-americanism. I don't see myself as an Anti-american, but a Canadian national. I don't see Canadian disagreements with the USA as Anti-Americanism, but... disagreements. Don't you ever have disagreements with your friends?

 

[Curiosity]

Finder

Sorry you took the post personally. I also took the posts personally. I'm still a Canadian so I feel it's ok to speak up.
The day my citizenship papers come through down here,
I'll cease and desist.

Canadians go on and on and never suggest solutions - only blame the U.S. for just about everything the country does when often what goes on in the U.S. has nothing to do with Canada at all.

If Canadians truly feel that way in the majority - tell me why they still do business with the U.S.?

Why not sever ties completely - take the high road - stop dealing with the devil and go your own way?

I have never seen in all the years I have read these kinds of topics - never has one person every come up with something worth reading - a solution - a progressive, productive solution.

Not once! Must be a generational thing now - passed down from your parents....so you can make sure your kids get the message.

It's impotent and useless argument unless you have an idea to suggest what would really benefit Canada and Canadians instead of bitching about the U.S. That isn't going to solve anything.

I think Canadians are pleased to have a scapegoat instead of looking to fix their own issues. That should be what makes you feel bad.

 

[Sassylassie]

WC it's frustrating isn't it when the USA is constantly being called the boogie man. The truth is Canada is dependant on the USA for trade and commerce, where this anti-American crap comes from I wish I knew.

I'm beginning to believe that internet forums are a safe place for some people to push racism, hate and wierd agendas. I feel bad for some of these people they are the ones we cross the road to avoid when we see them on the side walk. The beauty of the net is we can't see a face thus the creepy can walk among us.

 

[Toro]

RE: Keeping clear of Amer

Right on RCS!

You sound like an intelligent, insighful man!

And let me thank you for your service.

 

[Finder]

Wednesday's Child, I guess see we two different things. I don't see Canadians as being Anti-American(USA), far from it.

1. We are the USA's NATO ally
2. We fought the last two big wars together
3. Korean War
4. We often support them in the UN
5. NAFTA agreement as well as a G-8 partner
6. We share a mostly undefeanded and more or less open border as borders go.
7. We are trying to stop the USA from making it harder for Canadians and Americans to go to each side. (this shows we actually care)
8. I can only think of a handful of Canadian MP's who have been anti American in the last 50 years, and hundreds 50 years before that who were anti-american, pro-UK.
9. While our ties with the UK have deminnionished we have increased our bond with the USA, going from almost war like, or scared of the USA to friends and allies of the USA.
10. We were a cold war ally, though we didn't always agree on things we still helped each other out. We were much more friendlier to the USA by far then the soviets.
11. the USA is still our largest trading partner and everyone knows we depend on them too much and we really do need to diversify our trade for economic reasons and I don't see any kind of hatred behind such an act, as even the USA tries to be very diversified in there trade.
12. Our big national past times are shared, we are in the NBA and their baseball leagues, while they our in our hockey league (NHL).
13. Our armed forces train on each others lands and function on a daily basis with each other.
14. Our people retire to flordia
15. we take there garbage and imperalism with a grain of salt
16 and they take our garbage a little more literally (Michigan)

If the USA and Canada were people they would be married and on there anniversary. Do married couples complain and bitch about each other. Yeah, so why can't two friendly nations do so?

In 1906 there was much more Anti-Americanism then in 2006, we've done a complete 180 since then and perhaps the hunnymoon is over but I don't think our relations are strained. We just chose to take a seperate vacation then the USA and opted out of going to Iraq.

So yeah Canada's best friend is the USA and I think most Canadians know this and even though we have friends which the USA doesn't like that doesn't mean we put Cuba or any other of our lesser friends infront of them.

:lol:

 

[Toro]

RE: Keeping clear of Amer

I agree with you Finder. I believe that Canadians are not generally anti-American. Wary of America, perhaps, but not hostile.

However, recognize that being Canadian means, in some part, "not being American". One of the reason why Canada became a country was to resist the pull of the United States.

Unfortunately, there is a hostile element in Canada, which is probably 20% of the population. And they are vocal, which makes it seem like there is widespread anti-Americanism to those outside of Canada.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Keeping clear of Amer

I agree with you Finder. I believe that Canadians are not generally anti-American. Wary of America, perhaps, but not hostile.

However, recognize that being Canadian means, in some part, "not being American". One of the reason why Canada became a country was to resist the pull of the United States.

Unfortunately, there is a hostile element in Canada, which is probably 20% of the population. And they are vocal, which makes it seem like there is widespread anti-Americanism to those outside of Canada.

I think you are right there is a small minority which is openly hostile to the USA. But I think it is not as high as 20%, I think often people who would like to keep the USA more or less at arms lenth at times but would like to keep our current relationship with the USA the same are often lumbed into the same category as those who generally hate the the USA.

I would agree with everything you said. I think our relationship with the USA is fine as it is now. I mean there are issues out there for sure like softwood and the Iraqi and Afcan wars and our relationship together in international affairs, but generally the USA and Canada are still very close and I am worried about this new cross border passport the americans wish to bring out which may hurt Canadian-US relations more then any current disagreement we have.

 

[Curiosity]

My stake here is the historical working together side by side both nations have accomplished even though they were born out of totally different philosophies. In our world these days it is truly a major accomplishment and one to be envied.

Canada and the U.S. share an unwritten partnership in so many ways it must enrage the enemies of democracy - thinking why doesn't one country have a war with the other or shut down trade or make life difficult for the other - why do they still co-exist in peace? To read some forums, there is no peace between the two and only a drumbeat between anti-rhetoric which goes on incessantly - and the rumor is sickening. So many people have no idea what it is like living in the U.S. and yet they feel informed enough to tell the American people what they should be like?

It's hate folks - sorry - and what confounds me is it is hate with very little to justify it....other than the occasional trade tantrums which erupt on both sides...

Nobody would understand the profitable and pleasurable symbiosis of the two joined at the hip - making do as best they can - regardless of the naysayers who would love to see this relationship fail.

My life doesn't depend upon who likes me or not... but my belief in honest freedom for democracy is based on a good relationship between Canada and the U.S. - to set an example to other nations it can work. It is important for both countries to ensure it works.

If it is not to be and the naysayers in Canada finally have their way and shut down trade, the existing cooperation and sharing of many governmental exercises and global issues, and treat the U.S. as a foreign nation in ways other than they are trying right now - I will be very concerned.

 

[Curiosity]

Finder

And an addendum to my long post for you specifically:

I think I shut down after I read your words....implying the U.S. are trying to create "puppets" of Canadians.

Yes friends have major disagreements and still coexist in harmony.
Friends however, need not make up silly scenarios such as the puppet show you have just described.

Canadians first complained the people in the U.S. were so dumb they didn't even know where Canada is.... now they complain because the people in the U.S. want Canada to be like them?

HUH?

Work out your own conflicts about what you want Americans to be like to your satisfaction and then let them know..... so they can behave eh?

 

[zoofer]

If you ask a Canadian to define what is a Canadian he will invariably start with.. "we are not Americans". :roll:
In many cases the two are indistinguishable.
One clue though is one wears a Turban and the other waves a Mexican flag!
:laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
I had better explain the penultimate sentence was a joke, joke joke!