Preparing for a Black Hawk Down moment.

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
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Jonathan Kay, National Post
Published: Monday, March 20, 2006
Excerpt:
In one three-day trip to Afghanistan, Stephen Harper exhibited more leadership and moral clarity than the Liberals did in 13 years.

The Prime Minister went to Afghanistan because he understands what's at stake: If the country falls back into Taliban hands, Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar will have proven to the world -- including everyone in Iraq -- that jihadis can rout a modern Western army and transform a nascent democracy into a medieval theocracy.

The PM's main problem is that the Taliban are the enemies of not just ordinary Afghans, but of America as well. And so Canada's Left, reflexively sympathetic to anyone warring against George W. Bush, is already singing the chorus of cut-and-run.

But even the Left is divided on Afghanistan -- because our mission there has a strong humanitarian component. Across a range of human-development indicators, Afghanistan resembles a sub-Saharan nation. Linda McQuaig and Rick Salutin may believe we should let ordinary Afghans suffer because helping them would indirectly help Bush. But few Canadians are inclined to agree.

And yet, support for our Afghanistan mission could still be one major firefight away from collapsing. The problem with both the strategic and humanitarian rationales for our mission is that they suffer from what economists call the "free rider" problem. Yes, Canada's strategic interest in Afghanistan -- fighting militant Islam -- is compelling. But it is a shared interest diffused over the entire civilized world. Why should it be Canada leading the Kandahar charge as opposed to, say, New Zealand, or France? Better yet, why not just follow the usual Canadian practice and let the Americans do it?

Humanitarian arguments, too, will fall to the wayside if the body count spikes. While democracies have a high tolerance for casualties in wars of self-interest, the same is not true of humanitarian interventions -- which explains why Kosovo was bombed from 15,000 feet, and why no Western nation is willing to sacrifice a single solider to save Darfur. If the Taliban are able to stage a particularly spectacular attack, Harper will feel the same heavy pressure to evacuate as Bill Clinton did when Somali gunmen killed 18 U.S. soldiers in Mogadishu 13 years ago.

An Afghan Mogadishu would threaten not only our presence in Afghanistan, but also this precious moment in Canadian history.

Paul Martin and Jean Chretien spoke often about Canadian values, and congratulated themselves at great length about our country's Beatles-era peacekeeping tradition. But they did little to fight terrorism and rogue power in the modern world. Even when the Liberals eventually did the right thing in Afghanistan, they kept mum on the subject -- as if it were something to be embarrassed about.

Harper is of another breed. Good on him for visiting Afghanistan and saying the right things. But in the end, our deployment is an act of conscience aimed at fulfilling our moral obligation to the rest of the free world. This motivation may be laudable, but it is also highly abstract. And it is questionable whether it will survive if Canada is faced with the concrete violence produced by a Black Hawk Down moment.


http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/....html?id=8566c8bc-4fb9-4d1d-98f1-3cad832a5108


Lessons were learned from Clinton's cut and run from Somalia after the Battle of Mogadishu. It emboldens the Terrorists, Steven Harper know this as any Leader would.

Canada's Mission in Afghanistan is important to the Afghani people. To leave right now after the sacrifices made by Canadian Soldiers would send the Terrorists the message they want to hear.

No one wanted to cut and run in the former Yugoslavia when Canadian Forces lost members. There was no talk of Canada cutting and running during the Kosovo Bombing.

Yet in Afghanistan when the number of Soldiers lost in combat situations is low next to the number lost in accidents theres already talks of Canada cutting and running.

Canada will stay in Afghanistan to complete the mission. Those who say Canada is there for Oil or a Pipeline, get real Canada is there because it was attacked on Sept 11, 2001 as Canadians were lost. Canada is also there as a member of NATO doing it's part.

Supporting Canada's Mission in Afghanistan isn't being Gung Ho or a War Monger it's being proud of what Canada is doing. Those who don't see that and would rather focus on the negative lost the plot.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
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what are you still DOING here
if you believe in this BS war
get your hypocrital butt over there

what harper is a hero for showing up there
but you say here on yer cushy chair.....
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Just because people support our involvement, doesn't mean they have to enlist. Someone has to say here to float this welfare state.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
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so to support means
to SAY you agree with canadas policy
that CHEAP

hey
if you hate canada so much
ie-- welfare state

why dont you immigate to the states
realistic question

yeah -- thanks for the insight

1- if you support our troops- go to afganistan

2- if you hate canadas mixed economy
your free to leave
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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1- There is more than one way to support troops.

2- Canada's mixed economy is subject to change.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
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so ---support--
and ----nonsupport--
are all talk

humm i really dont think you --support--the mission--- you SAY you do----
but what if any action is being taken

you dont really support the mission
you just say you do

quicky repeat the following

i jay support the mission
i jay support the mission
the more you say it the more you support it-- its quantitative
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
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You repeat the following, and the more you do it the better you will become....do it often; it helps.

I cortez can be normal if I try
I cortez can be normal if I try...

The more you say it, the sooner it's a reality for you - it's quantative!

Have a good day.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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What a wonderful discussion

The reasoned, articulate, submissions are almost overwhelming.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Really, this "if you support the mission put on a uniform and go fight" is getting rather tiresome. It can easily be said if you don't support the mission, camp out in front of Parliament till the troops come home, it's less dangerous after all, isn't it? What's stopping you?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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I would have joined the army if I knew then what I know now and what is happening in the world was happening then. Back then though the thought never crossed my mind.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
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Edmonton
what are you still DOING here
if you believe in this BS war
get your hypocrital butt over there

A person doesn't have to wear a uniform to support the ideals. You get off fine criticizing are organization you know nothing about, so should one conclude that you should join the Forces in order to be able to criticize it?
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
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Re: RE: Preparing for a Black Hawk Down moment.

cortez said:
what are you still DOING here
if you believe in this BS war
get your hypocrital butt over there

what harper is a hero for showing up there
but you say here on yer cushy chair.....
Your response is typical you lost the plot. I'm just shocked you haven't called Canadian Soldiers in Afghanistan War Criminals yet.

I have made it clear where I stand, I support the Mission Canada is doing in Afghanistan because it's the right thing. I don't have to serve to be proud of what the men and women of the Canadian Military are doing. I take it your not proud of the men and women in the Canadian Military then?


I think not
Really, this "if you support the mission put on a uniform and go fight" is getting rather tiresome. It can easily be said if you don't support the mission, camp out in front of Parliament till the troops come home, it's less dangerous after all, isn't it? What's stopping you?
Why don't you take ITN's advice and plant your ass in the front of Parliament and protest Canada's role in Afghanistan?

Supporting Canada's Mission in Afghanistan isn't being Gung Ho or a War Monger it's being proud of what Canada is doing.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
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36
i repeat if you support the mission
get yer butt over there

stop all this cowardly evasion

as i do not support the mission
i do not get my butt over there
its really quite simple

youve already indicated that the mere thought of not supporting the mission
is sufficient to not support it

i am proud to not support the canadian militaries BS mission

as for the war crimes

give it a little time

give the boys a little time to get warmed up over there

cortez is supernormal
cortez is supernormal

and he is..........
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
Re: RE: Preparing for a Black Hawk Down moment.

cortez said:
i repeat if you support the mission
get yer butt over there

stop all this cowardly evasion

as i do not support the mission
i do not get my butt over there
its really quite simple

youve already indicated that the mere thought of not supporting the mission
is sufficient to not support it

i am proud to not support the canadian militaries BS mission

as for the war crimes

give it a little time

give the boys a little time to get warmed up over there

cortez is supernormal
cortez is supernormal

and he is..........
I dare you to say your Anti-Canadian Military BS to the face of any Canadian Soldier and see what happens, I doubt you would because your a little Coward.

I have thanked a Canadian Soldier in person for his service, what have you done besides insulting the men and women in the Canadian Military with your Anti-Military comments?

When you insult the men and women of the Canadian Military with your Anti-Military comments you also insult the family members back home. The family is the back bone of every Soldier when they are deployed overseas serving their country.

If it wasn't for the Canadian Military you wouldn't be able to be sitting at home on your ass enjoying the freedoms you take for granted.

Canada is doing a great Mission in Afghanistan.