Opinions of the Canadian Soldiers - Afghanistan

[DerekJay]

I would be interested to know what the average Canadian soldier thinks about being involved in Afghanistan. If there are any who post on this board, please feel free to comment.

I know that if I were involved in the military, I would be doing some serious soul-searching right now.... and making a career change. I feel sorry for those that truly "believe" they are out their laying their lives on the line for "freedom" and "human rights". They have bought into the program - Hook, Line and Sinker.

For those that have a broader knowledge of world affairs, I can't help but wonder if in the backs of their minds, they are asking themselves:

"Why am I risking my life, to make George Bush more money and give the U.S. more power?"

"What am I doing out here? One day I am digging wells, and the next I am hunting for Terrorists" (or at least that's what they told me they are)

"What is the long-term objective? I am being told that this is a cause worthy of giving my life to my country... yet I have no idea what the goal is?? I know that George wants to build a pipeline through the country so he can make lots of $$$, but are we only here to provide security in order to further the U.S. interests in Oil?"

"Is this a cause worth fighting for? I know there are many poor Afghan people that tell me they are happy to see us here... but wouldn't you if we were helping reconstruct buildings and schools after the U.S. bombed the hell out of them a few years ago."

"Who really stands to gain in all of this???? I'm making very little money and risking my life to help provide stability in a region to allow the U.S. government to further their interests in the Oil and Gas Reserves."

"What will really change after we have left? Hmm..."

No disrespect the the fighting men and women of the Canadian Forces. I have all the respect in the world for them - I only wish that when our government decides to deploy them, they would put some thought into it before jumping in head first. Many soldiers will die because of this, and I feel for the families and children of those that have (and will) lost their lives...

 

[karra]

I would be interested to know what the average Canadian soldier thinks about being involved in Afghanistan.

Speaking solely for myself and on behalf of hundreds of thousands if not millions of average Canadians - we think it's wonderful that the yellow that once infused the spines of our political mandarins seems to now be turning a hue of royal blue. To once again have our troops making a difference not based on partisan politiks is a wonderful thing - someone must have met some t-cells and grown a new backbone.

I know that if I were involved in the military, I would be doing some serious soul-searching right now.... and making a career change.

Xly, no you wouldn't - you'd complete your term then make a change - or desert and get caught and enjoy your newfound freedom doubletiming in Club Ed.

I feel sorry for those that truly "believe" they are out their laying their lives on the line for "freedom" and "human rights". They have bought into the program - Hook, Line and Sinker.

Yawn. . . . .

For those that have a broader knowledge of world affairs, I can't help but wonder if in the backs of their minds, they are asking themselves:

"Why am I risking my life, to make George Bush more money and give the U.S. more power?"

"What am I doing out here? One day I am digging wells, and the next I am hunting for Terrorists" (or at least that's what they told me they are)

"What is the long-term objective? I am being told that this is a cause worthy of giving my life to my country... yet I have no idea what the goal is?? I know that George wants to build a pipeline through the country so he can make lots of $$$, but are we only here to provide security in order to further the U.S. interests in Oil?"

"Is this a cause worth fighting for? I know there are many poor Afghan people that tell me they are happy to see us here... but wouldn't you if we were helping reconstruct buildings and schools after the U.S. bombed the hell out of them a few years ago."

"Who really stands to gain in all of this???? I'm making very little money and risking my life to help provide stability in a region to allow the U.S. government to further their interests in the Oil and Gas Reserves."

"What will really change after we have left? Hmm..."

'Nother yawn. . . .

I only wish that when our government decides to deploy them, they would put some thought into it before jumping in head first.

Correct me if'n I'm mistaken - but, didn't your Party of Entitlement accompanied by the Knee Dippers and the official opposition discuss, debate and decide. . . .

 

[Toro]

I didn't know the military was for war. 8O 8O

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Opinions of the Canad

Karra said:

"Speaking solely for myself and on behalf of hundreds of thousands if not millions of average Canadians - we think it's wonderful that the yellow that once infused the spines of our political mandarins seems to now be turning a hue of royal blue. To once again have our troops making a difference not based on partisan politiks is a wonderful thing - someone must have met some t-cells and grown a new backbone."

Karra which is it are you speaking solely for yourself or hundreds of thousands if not millions of average Canadians. Your enamored with spines and blue blood and you think it,s great that we,re in a war, why?

 

[Mogz]

RE: Opinions of the Canad

Your enamored with spines and blue blood and you think it,s great that we,re in a war, why?

I've been saying it all along beaver and you still haven't gotten it. Canada has become too pacifistic over the decades, and now finally we have a Government capable of standing up for Canada. With regard to the War, I have never said, nor did Karra once in her post, say it was great we are at War. We are saying however that we deem this War as just and a good thing for Canadian security. Book mark this post now beaver, then when you ask the same question again in a week I can direct you to the book mark.

As for my views on Afghanistan. Having served nearly 8 months in that Country as part of the Kabul Multinational Brigade, I fully support our operation. We're not in Afghanistan for oil, or for the Americans, or to rape babies. We're in that nation to promote Canadian Security, promote a rebuilding of Afghanistan, and promote the welfare of the Afghan people. Take it or leave it, that's why we're there. Having served a tour, gotten the shiny medal, and fought to try and serve a second tour, I find myself arguging why we're in Afghanistan with people that have never left Canada, even for a vacation. I find it hilarious how people like beaver, and Five, and Aeon, constantly post these bombastic posts about the war for oil, killing innocent Afghans, and how we're suppose to be peacekeeping in Afghanistan, when none of them have contributed a damn thing to the military, let alone the Country. How can you, being an 18 year old who still lives with your parents (Five), honestly offer any input on this situation? How can you being a pacifist at heart with the memory of a goldfish (beaver) offer any insight on the conduct of our Forces or why they're in theatre? How can you, being an utter fool (Aeon), expect to offer any insight on Afghanistan, especially when you drag Israel in to everything. In short, these people cannot offer any insight. Having never carried a weapon, having never served their Country, they cannot offer input of credit. Sure anyone can go off about things they feel, but those are just opinions, not arguments with any merit. I know the above listed will not agree with me, and why should they, I basically said they're out to lunch. Truth be told, they are. I don't hold anything against them, I don't hate anyone here, I just feel that this place is full of people that like to offer insight on things they have no knowledge of. To wrap up, we're in Afghanistan to do good, it's the Canadian way. We've stayed out of wars before, we never invaded Iraq, we left Vietnam after it was clear it was pointless, and we've refused to allow our soldiers to be used as an extension of the U.S. Army in Afghanistan. As Canadian soldiers we've been deployed to defend the interests of Canada, these interests include, but are not limited to: defeating the Taliban, supporting the Afghan Government, helping the Afghan people, and fullfilling our committments to NATO. As I said above, take it or leave it, however this post is from someone who's been there and gotten the t-shirt. Want the views of other soldiers? Check the email I posted from my friend in Kandahar. Watch the news at night. Read the paper. Our soldiers believe in the merits of this operation, that should be enough for the people sitting in comfort back in Canada, utterly removed from the War.

 

[DerekJay]

Mogz,

As a new member of this board, and having read a few of your posts... you are clearly an educated individual that has an argument worth contributing (Karra, you should take some notes). You clearly have a handle on the mindset of the Canadian troops... which is what I was looking for.

My problem though, is in the underlying reasons (that date back 6 years) for which we are there. In other words... Had it not been for:

- 911 (the U.S. Reichstad)
- Bush and the U.S. Industrialists seeking power and control of Middle East Oil Reserves.
- The War Initiative in Afghanistan based on this initiative (Unocal Oil pipeline)

We would not be in Afghanistan! Period.

I am a firm believer in supporting our troops, since they are all friends and neighbors (I have friends with famility serving) although, I believe in getting involved for the right reasons.

Without question, Canada needs to stand up and take action when it's required to do so - but once again, for the right reason. If we were involved in a peace-keeping capacity, then I would be in full support. Unfortunately though, we are involved in a "post" U.S. occupancy which will prove (already) to be dangerous since we are acting as an extension of the U.S. military.

By the way, I am glad to hear that some of your friends in Kandahar feel that they are truly helping those in need... I'm sure there are many that need it.

 

[DerekJay]

... and Karra?

"yawn"

Is that the best you can offer?

You can stick your head back in the sand now.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Opinions of the Canadian Soldiers - Afghanistan

- 911 (the U.S. Reichstad)
- Bush and the U.S. Industrialists seeking power and control of Middle East Oil Reserves.
- The War Initiative in Afghanistan based on this initiative (Unocal Oil pipeline)

Yawn.

 

[cortez]

my opinion- for whats its worth is that our troups are being used.

to me support our troops means that you sincerely care about the welfare of your fellow countrymen---- people who are being asked to perhaps take a life or to risk irreparable damage to themselves, to their bodies to their minds , irreparable damage to their families,, to DIE for something -- my tax dollars supports that-- like dark beavers whether we agree or not.

i support -- our troops -- in the sense that-- despite my sarcastic posts----- i do think that the lives of our troops are important-- so --- i could only ask them to go to war -- to make that sacrifice -- if it were REALLY necessary..
i dont believe -- support out troups-- means support them no matter WHAT they doing----.

the afgan mission- without reiterating all the previous posts is -- in my learned opinion NOT worth it

Soldiers may not be the most objective in determining what is necessary-- they are the executive.
0f course they are going to believe that what they are doing is the right thing.. you would HAVE to believe that.

my beef is with the arm chair militarists- those who from the safety of their cushy chairs in canada-- say-------SUPPORT OUR TROUPS---- as if it were a prayer---
without doing anything--- without risking anything they SAY---- support our troups -- when what they are really saying is -- AGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENTS DECISION TO SEND OUR TROOPS TO WAR WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU OR NOT.---

that is pure BS -- absolutely pure BS and ill say it again pure BS -- the purest of the pure BS

i believe the mission in afghanistan will fail-- thats my opinion---

but more importantly ---i think the militarists- -conformists
ALSO believe it as well
they are so insecure about the mission that they believe that the mere THOUGHT of cortez and his type-- ie their claim that we dont support the troups---- is ENOUGH to put the mission on danger....

I really have a problem being told by the likes of the the ARM CHAIR MILITARISTS --- and BY THE TROOPS THEMSELVES -- that their OPINION is more important than members of the educated public

lets review how process is SUPPOSED TO WORK

The public elects a government that is supposed to represent them
the leader makes decisions on their behalf
if its to go to war
the troops go to war

if the public finds out this has occurred without their consent
they have the right to say

HEY ASSHOLE WE DIDNIT SAY YOU COULD DO THAT ON OUR BEHALF

So im saying HEY ASSHOLE I DIDNIT SAY YOU COULD DO THAT ON MY BEHALF---

We the public ARE THE BOSS--
NOT THE GOVERNMENT--- THEY WORK FOR US
AND NOT THE TROOPS THEY WORK FOR US TOO
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

IF 60 % of canadians dont believe this afgan-nam makes sense to them--- YEAH FOR CANADA

of course this would be an entirely different matter if say----80-90% of canadians supported the war--but they dont-- wHY

BECAUSE THEY ARENT STUPID

 

[DerekJay]

Re: RE: Opinions of the Canadian Soldiers - Afghanistan

- 911 (the U.S. Reichstad)
- Bush and the U.S. Industrialists seeking power and control of Middle East Oil Reserves.
- The War Initiative in Afghanistan based on this initiative (Unocal Oil pipeline)

Yawn.

Jay,

If you have something intelligent to add (or dispute) regarding my argument, I would welcome it. Otherwise, I would have to think that you can't dispute my point (based on your comment), and are only acting indifferent... which means you condone this action.

 

[DerekJay]

Cortez,

you make many good points. I would agree that we have the right to question this activity. The military should not be called into action without the full support of it's citizens. I'm not suggesting that a referendum be conducted every time we need to call upon our troops... but in this case, some serious discussion needs to take place. This is a slippery slope we are on.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Opinions of the Canadian Soldiers - Afghanistan

- 911 (the U.S. Reichstad)
- Bush and the U.S. Industrialists seeking power and control of Middle East Oil Reserves.
- The War Initiative in Afghanistan based on this initiative (Unocal Oil pipeline)

We would not be in Afghanistan! Period.

GONG!

(Nothing personal, DerekJay!)

 

[I think not]

Well let's see now, Afghanistan had notrhing to do with 9/11, it's all about the Unocal pipeline, that had agreements in place as far back as 1996 ( I suppose war planning takes time).

Now of course the US couldn't just GO IN there on its own (sure it could), they had to drum up some excuse do it, so they came up with 9/11, what better way to invade a foreign country than to kill your own citizens and plunge the economy for a couple of years eh? Why not, it's not like we couldn't drill one million barrels of oil a day somehwere else, say....Venezuela?

But I digress, the US invaded Afghanistan, BUT, Bush was in such a hurry to invade Iraq, the US had to call upon some 40 nations worldwide to pickup the slack for the US...er...I mean Unocal. Before doing that however, the US had to install a puppet government, BUT, had to have the international monitors of the elections in on it, otherwise it wouldn't work. THEN the US .....er....Unocal sorry....had to get the UN involved by giving their blessings, THEN, we had to convince 40 nations its a "noble" cause and it isn't about the pipeline and all 40 nations bought into it, THEN we had to convince the World Bank to extend loans to the puppet government, no big deal, the World Bank is in on it also, so thats why we pursuaded the IMF to do the same thing, they are more credible. And to make it even more credible, we got the Russians to publicly endorse the Afganistan mission, oh but wait, their gas and oil will be channeled through the pipeline, so I guess they are in on it also.

So in short, the whole world is in on it, or a big part of it.
And then people wonder about this:

 

[Toro]

RE: Opinions of the Canad

Oh yeah, ITN.

And 9/11 was staged by Bush so he can invade Afghanistan on behalf of Unocol.

Where is that sheep thread?

 

[cortez]

come on
that is so unconvincing

 

[Mogz]

RE: Opinions of the Canad

Mogz,

As a new member of this board, and having read a few of your posts... you are clearly an educated individual that has an argument worth contributing (Karra, you should take some notes). You clearly have a handle on the mindset of the Canadian troops... which is what I was looking for.

My problem though, is in the underlying reasons (that date back 6 years) for which we are there. In other words... Had it not been for:

- 911 (the U.S. Reichstad)
- Bush and the U.S. Industrialists seeking power and control of Middle East Oil Reserves.
- The War Initiative in Afghanistan based on this initiative (Unocal Oil pipeline)

We would not be in Afghanistan! Period.

I am a firm believer in supporting our troops, since they are all friends and neighbors (I have friends with famility serving) although, I believe in getting involved for the right reasons.

Without question, Canada needs to stand up and take action when it's required to do so - but once again, for the right reason. If we were involved in a peace-keeping capacity, then I would be in full support. Unfortunately though, we are involved in a "post" U.S. occupancy which will prove (already) to be dangerous since we are acting as an extension of the U.S. military.

By the way, I am glad to hear that some of your friends in Kandahar feel that they are truly helping those in need... I'm sure there are many that need it.

Beaver, take note, this is how to disagree with class.

Derek,

I will never deny that if 9/11 didn't happen, we'd not be in Afghanistan. But as it is, 9/11 did happen and we are in Afghanistan. It is quite easy to look back on wars and conflicts that have occured in our past and say "if this didn't happen". If Hitler hadn't risen to power WW II woulnd't have occured. If North Korea hadn't invaded South Korea then the Korean War wouldn't have happened. If Iraq hadn't invaded Kuwait then the Gulf War wounldn't have happened. If people in the Balkans could put aside their prejudice of ages past then the Balkan War wouldn't have occured.

With regard to us being there, we are for our own reasons, as i've stated before. We pulled out briefly in 2002 to reorganize our birgades and no one gave us any flak. We returned to Afghanistan less than 6 months later and have been there since. The Americans do not pull our strings, I know this for fact as our troops are under Canadian Command. Our goals in Afghanistan are of our own design. While yes some of those goals do coincide with American goals, we were the ones to set them, not the United States. A major thing people fail to remember is that on September 11th, Canadians were killed on both the aircraft that slammed in to buildings and in the buildings themselves. Are we suppose to just pretend that our Countrymen weren't attacked and killed? This Canadian will not sit by while people conduct terror training with my nation in the crosshairs.

Lastly, peacekeeping, the stereotypical Canadian response. I've said this before on the forums, but as you're new and appear to be of a level head, i'll reiterate for you. We haven't deployed on a peacekeeping mission since 2000, and that was only 6 months in Eritrea. While peacekeeping is good and fine in and of itself, it isn't always the final solution. Peacekeeping wouldn't have stopped Germany in either World War. Peacekeeping wouldn't have fixed Korea or Vietnam. Peacekeeping didn't stop Hutu's from murdering Rwandans, or Somali's from killing eachother (hence why we changed Somalia to a combat mission). Most importantly and recently, peacekeeping didn't fix the Balkans. We tried to peacekeep in the early 90's, and it failed, miserably, and at the cost of eleven (11) Canadian soldiers killed. In the late 90's we changed from peacekeeping to warfare. We attacked Serbia, and engaged both Croatian and Serbian ground forces. Near the end of the Former Yugoslavia we switched to peacemaking, but never returned to peacekeeping. The later stages of The Former Yugoslavia cost an additional seven (7) Canadian lives. In all, 18 Canadian soldiers were killed from the spring of 1992 until the fall of 2004. In all these instances I mention, peacekeeping failed. It is a good idea, and works (rarely), but it isn't the be all to end all of militaries. The Canadian Army is one of the best trained and most highly motivated land forces in the World. We don't train our soldiers well and maintain highly motivated men to simply peacekeep. We are issued weapons for a reason, and we're trained to kill for a reason. That reason is the defense of Canada, something we're doing in Afghanistan. Once again, that's directly from a soldier who did the defending.

 

[cortez]

Well let's see now, Afghanistan had notrhing to do with 9/11, it's all about the Unocal pipeline, that had agreements in place as far back as 1996 ( I suppose war planning takes time).

Now of course the US couldn't just GO IN there on its own (sure it could), they had to drum up some excuse do it, so they came up with 9/11, what better way to invade a foreign country than to kill your own citizens and plunge the economy for a couple of years eh? Why not, it's not like we couldn't drill one million barrels of oil a day somehwere else, say....Venezuela?

But I digress, the US invaded Afghanistan, BUT, Bush was in such a hurry to invade Iraq, the US had to call upon some 40 nations worldwide to pickup the slack for the US...er...I mean Unocal. Before doing that however, the US had to install a puppet government, BUT, had to have the international monitors of the elections in on it, otherwise it wouldn't work. THEN the US .....er....Unocal sorry....had to get the UN involved by giving their blessings, THEN, we had to convince 40 nations its a "noble" cause and it isn't about the pipeline and all 40 nations bought into it, THEN we had to convince the World Bank to extend loans to the puppet government, no big deal, the World Bank is in on it also, so thats why we pursuaded the IMF to do the same thing, they are more credible. And to make it even more credible, we got the Russians to publicly endorse the Afganistan mission, oh but wait, their gas and oil will be channeled through the pipeline, so I guess they are in on it also.

So in short, the whole world is in on it, or a big part of it.
And then people wonder about this:

ITN
why is it that--- what you say about the british empire-- in many of your previous posts-- is so LOGICAL so to the point -- so in my opinion CORRECT- and that is so in contrast to the current situation regarding the US and its proxy states
100 years from now this war will seem as transparently self interested as anything the british ever did,-- or to be fair the spanish or the dutch or the portugeese -- whatever

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Opinions of the Canadian Soldiers - Afghanistan

come on
that is so unconvincing

:lol: :lol:

I'm sorry...

 

[I think not]

ITN
why is it that--- what you say about the british empire-- in many of your previous posts-- is so LOGICAL so to the point -- so in my opinion CORRECT- and that is so in contrast to the current situation regarding the US and its proxy states
100 years from now this war will seem as transparently self interested as anything the british ever did,-- or to be fair the spanish or the dutch or the portugeese -- whatever

Because the US never stays anywhere where it is involved in a war, that's why. Now you can reference military bases all over the world, but is that the same thing as the British Empire cortez? Really, is it? The US pays to be in those countries. You can compare the British Empire to the US all you want, it won't change the facts.

 

[PoisonPete2]

Re: RE: Opinions of the Canad

Mogz,

My problem though, is in the underlying reasons (that date back 6 years) for which we are there. In other words... Had it not been for:

- 911 (the U.S. Reichstad)
- Bush and the U.S. Industrialists seeking power and control of Middle East Oil Reserves.
- The War Initiative in Afghanistan based on this initiative (Unocal Oil pipeline)
...
We would not be in Afghanistan! Period.

Derek,

I will never deny that if 9/11 didn't happen, we'd not be in Afghanistan. But as it is, 9/11 did happen and we are in Afghanistan. (...>

A major thing people fail to remember is that on September 11th, Canadians were killed on both the aircraft that slammed in to buildings and in the buildings themselves. Are we suppose to just pretend that our Countrymen weren't attacked and killed? This Canadian will not sit by while people conduct terror training with my nation in the crosshairs.


RESPONSE: Somebody once said that circumstances always favour the bold. That the US gov. was pissed about 9/11 is quite understandable. That most countries expressed support is commendable. That America suddenly jumped at the opportunity to attack Afghanistan is regrettable. That they threatened many nations to be complicit in their action is deplorable. That anyone can still claim causative links of Afghanistan with 9/11 is unbelievable.

Yes, Afghanistan had training camps. They were set up (largely with American funds) to train 'resistance fighters' to attack the Russian-supported Afghani government. They continued to train 'resistance fighters' during the Taliban years (largely with funds from Saudi Arabia). Lybia has training camps. They trained Irish 'resistance fighters', some Italians, and Spanish. Israel has training camps. They trained South African apartheid supporters, Moa Moa, and Congolese. The USA has training camps. They trained 'resistance forces' from Nicarauga, Gautamalan government forces, and Cuban insurgents. The Canadians have training camps. They trained a few good men.

Those who attacked in 9/11 were trained for that operation in the U.S.A. They were financed through Saudi Arabia. The bin Laudin financing came from a lot of construction projects (some in New York City). The U.S.A. did not forment war against Afghanistan because Afghanistan participated in or financed 9/11. They didn't. The U.S. didn't invade Afghanistan because the Afghanis were protecting terrorist groups. Afghanistan did not have the infrastructure to do that (or to prevent foreign intrusion). But it would not give up its sovereignty under threat. The U.S. attacked Afghanistan because it was a chunk of land between American need (for oil) and a chunk of the old USSR that was swimming in oil.

(quote)
We don't train our soldiers well and maintain highly motivated men to simply peacekeep. We are issued weapons for a reason, and we're trained to kill for a reason. That reason is the defense of Canada, something we're doing in Afghanistan. Once again, that's directly from a soldier who did the defending.

RESPONSE: So you still insist that Afghanistan attacked anywhere?? Your so called 'terrorists' are mostly Saudi, Morroccan, Syrian, Palistinian. They are not affiliated to any particular country, mostly because most are dedicated to affecting government change in their own countries (oligarchies and other assorted dictatorships). Instead of Canada seeking to democratize countries like Egypt, Jordan, and Pakistan, we defend them by seeking the enemies of those dictatorships. That doesn't defend Canada or its principles.