Canadian Soilders Feeling Lack of Support at Home

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Canadian soldiers defiant in face of growing controversy over Afghan mission
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KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - Canadian soldiers expressed bewilderment, surprise and anger that people back home would question their role in Afghanistan.

Troops interviewed in violence-plagued Kandahar this week were unanimous in support of their mission in the face of growing concerns about Canada's most perilous military deployment in decades.

One described a near-death experience on his first full day in Afghanistan, saying it still gives him nightmares. But the experience hasn't dented his faith in the mission's goals.

Another soldier struggled to contain his anger when told of a recent public-opinion poll that suggested most Canadians opposed the Afghan deployment.

"I'll hold my tongue - but that burns me, really," said Cpl. Pascal Johanny of Shediac, N.B.

"The Canadian public has always approved of Canadian missions - in Bosnia, in Kosovo, always giving their support.

"Now we're here in one of the worst places that needs the most help, and now they don't want to support us? It's kind of odd."

With casualties mounting, a recent Strategic Counsel poll suggested just 40 per cent of Canadians supported the mission. Just under 75 per cent of those polled agreed with calls from the NDP and some Liberals for a parliamentary debate on the deployment.

But soldiers interviewed privately by The Canadian Press during Prime Minister Stephen Harper's three-day visit said they wanted to continue their mission.

During one late-night interview, Cpl. Pat Halcro of Ottawa sat behind the wheel of his idle transport vehicle quietly describing the unnerving experience of bullets whistling past his head.

Thirty hours after arriving in Kandahar, Halcro was riding atop an armoured vehicle when he saw the flash of a rocket-propelled grenade by the road.

He says he fired at least a dozen bullets at a pair of insurgents from his assault rifle and still doesn't know whether he killed them.

The insurgents managed to launch two grenades and fired shots in Halcro's direction before he sped off. One grenade fell wide of the vehicle and failed to detonate. Another soared overhead and exploded off the road.

The closest call came from a bullet that whizzed so close to his head that it rattled his eardrums through his heavy communications headset.

But Halcro says he also remembers another Afghan scene, that of an impoverished family living in the bombed-out, semi-collapsed remains of an old Soviet military barracks.

"It's mind-boggling," Halcro said of the devastation. "We have to show the young people here that there's a better way of life than fighting. Everybody deserves an opportunity to succeed - and it's a good thing we're here."

Shock waves rippled across the camp last week when an insurgent buried an axe in the skull of a Canadian soldier who had been chatting with children. But Halcro and other soldiers have shrugged off such attacks as the work of a few bad apples.

Capt. Julie Roberge acknowledges she sometimes sees locals flashing the thumbs-down sign at her, or shooting menacing glances as she rides through town.

But she describes her real enemy as ignorance. Many locals can't read newspapers and don't understand why foreigners are in their country, she said.

That's why the public-relations graduate is helping the newly appointed provincial government with media relations. She invited the local media this week to the first-ever news conference by Kandahar Gov. Assadullah Khalid.

Since the literacy rate is so low, Roberge urges the governor to use the radio to reach citizens.

"A democracy without the support of its people is useless," the Quebec City resident says of her Afghan public-relations work.

She works at a Canadian-run base in the desert near the mud huts of Kandahar, in the shadow of a craggy, dirt-coloured mountain where the charred remains of an old Soviet helicopter are still visible.

Canadians at this base are helping the new provincial government set up its departments, and training police officers.

Warrant Officer John MacPherson says the country needs Canada's help.

"This is my seventh mission (abroad)," said the Montreal native. "I've seen quite a bit. I have never seen a people that are this poor. They have nothing and we're just trying to give them a better life.

"It's going to take a long time."

Khalid says his province and country need Canada's help after decades of war. And, he warns, countries like Canada need a stable Afghanistan.

"I will tell Canadian people ... if we don't do this (reconstruction) now, today in Afghanistan, tomorrow we will need to do this in Europe and in Canada," he said.

"Ninety-nine per cent of people in Kandahar, all over Afghanistan, they are thinking about peace. They want peace, they want stability, they want reconstruction, and they are tired of war.

"All Afghan people like peace and like your soldiers here, and they respect your soldiers. ... We need your soldiers, and I'm proud of them."
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
It is unfortunate that the Canadian Armed Forces would interpret the questioning of a mission as questioning of their competence; this is, simply put, not the case. While I have certain questions arising regarding the mission in Afghanistan, I have no doubt that the Armed Forces are quite capable of carrying out whatever orders are issued.

I question the orders, not the soldiers.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
I am grossly pissed off by this, what kind of nation sends their troops abroad and then turns their back on them. What kind of nation cuts and runs after a dozen deaths since 2001. Absoultely sickening, how a bunch of fat assholes sitting on thier couch preach like they know whats going on over there. They claim were are only peacekeepers, not peacemakers....and that if we left tomorrow it would be better for Afghanistan. BULLSHIT.

On my wife side, there are family members in Afghanistan fighting, and when I hear that they are shocked by the lack of support it amazes me.......
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Re: RE: Canadian Soilders Feeling Lack of Support at Home

FiveParadox said:
It is unfortunate that the Canadian Armed Forces would interpret the questioning of a mission as questioning of their competence; this is, simply put, not the case. While I have certain questions arising regarding the mission in Afghanistan, I have no doubt that the Armed Forces are quite capable of carrying out whatever orders are issued.

I question the orders, not the soldiers.

I doubt the Soilders out there feel we are questioning their competence and skill .....think again :roll:

They are upset about their country and its people not supporting a mission they feel highly about, and that they are risking their lives for....especially when its a bunch of fat asshole NDP voters sitting on their welfare paid couch preaching bullshit
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
For clarity, Hank C, I prefer the Liberal Party of Canada over the New Democratic Party of Canada. Nonetheless, I am one of the three out of four, by your statistics, who supports their plea for a discussion on the subject matter of the mission, in the House of Commons. However, just to be clear, I want it to be a discussion on the part of the government informing, and the opposition making suggestions — I would vehemently oppose, at this point, any motion to end the mission prematurely (which is why I would like the Government of Canada to create a discussion on their own terms, before the NDP has a chance to request an emergency debate or exploit one of their opposition days to end the mission).
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Canadian Soilders Fee

It is unfortunate that the Canadian Armed Forces would interpret the questioning of a mission as questioning of their competence; this is, simply put, not the case. While I have certain questions arising regarding the mission in Afghanistan, I have no doubt that the Armed Forces are quite capable of carrying out whatever orders are issued.

I question the orders, not the soldiers.

You question the orders? The same ones handed down by the CDS? YOu do realize, or at least you should after reading my posts, that Government plays NO role in assigning mission orders. So you do question the soldiers, the ones that issue the orders for Afghanistan.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Mogz, you are incorrect. The order to proceed with a mission in Afghanistan cannot be initiated by the Chief of the Defence Staff. Military action cannot take place without the authorization of the Government of Canada. The way in which the mission is carried out carries a certain degree of discretion at the hands of the Chief of the Defence Staff; however, the mission in and of itself is given to the Armed Forces by the Government.

I do not question the qualifications or the competence of the soldiers. Period.

Discontinue attempting to paint me as some sort of anti-Forces advocate.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Canadian Soilders Fee

Nope i'm not. Our troops are deployed to a region by the Government, true, but their role STOPS there. The CDS makes all calls on troops in theatre. Harper can't call up General Hillier and say "hey Rick how about you attack the Taliban in the hills tomorrow". It doesn't work like that. The orders for the troops come from a strictly military chain. That's my point. You question the orders of the troops, those orders come from the CDS, a soldier. If by chance you're refering to the decision to DEPLOY to Afghanistan, yes that is at the Government level, but a decision made by your party years ago, the same party calling for debate. Politcal fodder.

P.S. I'm not painting you as anything, you're doing a fine job of it yourself. You dropped your hippy-beads by the way.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Mogz, furthering your points by insulting the intelligence of the membership, or delivering personal insults thereto, serves no purpose. Besides, I was born far after the period of "hippies"; as were my parents.

:arrow: To the Topic-at-Hand

The technicalities and semantics behind any action that may take place as a result of an Order of the House of Commons (arguably an order, judging from the very nature of the term) are irrelevant. Judging from the fact that I would propose a debate in the House of Commons, it should be obvious that I would be referring to a prior decision of the House, as opposed to any decision that the Chief of the Defence Staff may—or may not—have made.

Like I have said before, if the Government of Canada does not facilitate an open discussion of this mission at once, the New Democratic Party of Canada could (judging by statements they have made surrounding the subject matter) request an emergency debate (which neither the Government, nor the Chief of the Defence Staff would have the authority to prevent), or worse, use a supply day to move for a withdrawal (in which case the Chief of the Defence Staff would not have the authority to intervene an Order of the House).
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
RE: Canadian Soilders Fee

Mogz, furthering your points by insulting the intelligence of the membership, or delivering personal insults thereto, serves no purpose. Besides, I was born far after the period of "hippies"; as were my parents.

Provided they have intelligence to insult....anyway I clearly know you were born post-1960's, however your stance is not unlike the one adopted by the peaceniks of the Vietnam War. I just call it as I see it. If my answers offend you, or bother you, sorry, freedom of speech :)

P.S. I never insulted you in that last post. If anything in there was found to be insulting, you need to toughen up a tad my son.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
As soon as Canadians get the Idea that Afghanistan actually wants us there, the support fo the troops will climb. The support for the Afghanistan action is now a small majority.

Afghanistan grateful for Canadian sacrifice: Karzai
Last Updated Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:00:24 EST
CBC News

Prime Minister Stephen Harper wrapped up a two-day visit to Afghanistan Tuesday as that country's president thanked him for Canadian aid and the "lives of your sons."

Harper met Afghan President Hamid Karzai at his presidential palace in Kabul, the first head of state the prime minister has met since his Conservative government won the January federal election.



http://tinyurl.com/lsx34
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
On a related note, approval for the War in Afghanistan have risen to 55% as of this morning. At least some people are slowly getting behind the troops.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Canadian Soilders Fee

Mogz said:
Mogz, furthering your points by insulting the intelligence of the membership, or delivering personal insults thereto, serves no purpose. Besides, I was born far after the period of "hippies"; as were my parents.

Provided they have intelligence to insult....anyway I clearly know you were born post-1960's, however your stance is not unlike the one adopted by the peaceniks of the Vietnam War. I just call it as I see it. If my answers offend you, or bother you, sorry, freedom of speech :)

P.S. I never insulted you in that last post. If anything in there was found to be insulting, you need to toughen up a tad my son.

It is my discovery that "hippie" isn't near as effective as liberal...Just so you know!

I mean though...really...you see...hippies eventually did grow up, evacuated the parks, and got jobs. :D
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Jay wrote:
It is my discovery that "hippie" isn't near as effective as liberal...Just so you know!

I mean though...really...you see...hippies eventually did grow up and get jobs.

What's this? Newspeak? Liberals cover a wide spectrum from center left to center right. Liberals also represent a large segment of the population. Why is it that right wingers feel compelled to name calling and putting labels on people who don't have quite the same opinion as they do? I wasn't happy with the last liberal governments but by the same token I wasn't happy with Mulroney either and nor was most of Canada.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
#juan, you need to understand — according to right-wingers, since I support a discussion in the House on the mission in Afghanistan, I am a crazy liberal left-wing nutjob hippie who loathes the Canadian Armed Forces and wants Canada to sink into the depth of terrorism and obscurity and eventual self-implosion and I probably eat children, too.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
OK, I support the mission in Afghanistan. I believe in it. I believe it's necessary. I have someone important to me over there.

But, I am getting so sick of military whining about "feelings". It's just gotten out of control. Maybe it's because I live in the US and have been listening to this for about 2 years, but the "Support the troops by not questionning anything they do" refrain is getting old. Very old. If you question anything, then you must be an unpatriotic, cowardly, big ol' meanie. Christ. Be a man about it. If soldiers want to complain about equipment, funding, salaries, politics, etc. I support them completely. I have no more sympathy for complaints about Canadians expressing their views just because a soldier doesn't agree or finds them hurtful.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
This puts one in mind of "yer with us or yer with the terrorists" . There are hundreds of reasonable positions between the two ends of that statement.

This should be discussed in parliament. Harper doesn't really have the clout to invoke closure. Wars don't always go the way you want them to. If we get a rash of body bags and Harper refuses to discuss it, Harper's government might not get a lot older.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
He doesn't have the clout to invoke closure — nor does he have the authority to prevent any Member of Parliament from asking the Speaker of the House of Commons to consent to an emergency debate.

It would be in the Prime Minister of Canada's best interest to permit a debate immediately on his own terms, rather than allowing the Opposition to make the headlines amidst Tory resistance.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
When my husband served in Croatia he was the only person from his base to do so. I had no public support, no military support in fact my family doctor informed me that the money spent on the military would be better spent on welfare moms and their children. My husband emailed me asking me to send a shoe box full of lifes little necessities for the children in his area. By asking friends and family to help this one shoe box grew to 200 shoe boxes. Next he emailed me for charcol, what the hell. He built a sauna for his troops. Just before Christmas he asked if I could arrange for coats hats, and warm clothing to be donated and shipped to him in small boxes. I mean this is his personal mail and the military had weight limits. Again friends and family went one step further and did holiday boxes for both the Serbs and Croatian children-no reference to religion was included in these boxes. My husband and I weren't the only ones doing this many military members dig deep into their own pockets to help the people in the country they are in. If you want to support the troops find out what small measure you can make to help the Troops make life for those that are suffering a little better.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Canadian Soilders Feeling Lack of Support at Home

FiveParadox said:
#juan, you need to understand — according to right-wingers, since I support a discussion in the House on the mission in Afghanistan, I am a crazy liberal left-wing nutjob hippie who loathes the Canadian Armed Forces and wants Canada to sink into the depth of terrorism and obscurity and eventual self-implosion and I probably eat children, too.

No sir....it is your sudden need to have this discussion we call into question. Unlike some, we weren't born yesterday and we know all you people are doing is trying to tie up the government because it isn't a Liberal one....if it was a Liberal one, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I mean come on, at least have the guts to admit it.

The baby eating thing probably isn't true.... :p