supporting our troops??

[progressive]

Why is it that despite the lack of morality behind a military offensive, we are somehow dissenters if we "don't support the troops". The out come of our tactics in Afghanistan should come as no surprise, but of course they do to a lot Canadians.......and for the people that did not see this coming, don't feed into the conservative and military rhetoric; there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with this mission in Afghanistan. To be critical and cynical of our presence in Afghanistan is not only a right, but our responsibility in a democracy. Not supporting this war does not mean that we hate our soldiers......but for those that think that this is a war of good guys versus bad guys, you have it all wrong.

Let’s have an open debate about this at the parliamentary level to see what exactly the rationale is for our presence in Afghanistan so we can access the cost and benefit of this mission.

 

[the caracal kid]

:thumbleft:

 

[Jay]

Why is it that despite the lack of morality behind a military offensive, we are somehow dissenters if we "don't support the troops".

There is morality behind this offensive.

 

[progressive]

The fact that Afghanistan needed help is of course true, but our reasons for going are without morality, integrity, decency, honesty, or goodness.....it is the attack on an ally of ours that led us down this road....and to be honest, an ally that had it coming. If you look at the history of America's role in Afghanistan in 1979, you can see that the attacks of 911 were not without provocation.

 

[the caracal kid]

Why is it that despite the lack of morality behind a military offensive, we are somehow dissenters if we "don't support the troops".

There is morality behind this offensive.

morality is relative. people tout morality as justification for every act imaginable.

The Afgani cleaving the officer's head is just as moral as the officer being there, by their own morals.

Stop spouting rhetoric, jay!

 

[Jersay]

As a soldier, I am not concerned if you like the Afghanistan mission or not.

If we had to go into Iraq, I would be supporting the anti-war forces just as much as anyone.

However, since we are in Afghanistan to help we should remain there to help the Afghan people, and that even allows for opposition to the war to be heard in debate, because if it is stamped out, we are not a democracy.

 

[Jay]

The Afgani cleaving the officer's head is just as moral as the officer being there, by their own morals.

Well I guess we have a little problem then don't we?

Stop spouting rhetoric, jay!

Why would I do that?

 

[progressive]

The ones that say this is a war of civilizations are completely right. Lets assume for the sake of arrument that our intentions and that of the US's are really genuine, they still don't want us there.......they don't want our definition of freedom........and when I say that they don't want us there, by there I mean anywhere in the Islamic world, not just Iraq or Afghanistan.........lets just do what the Swedes and the Swiss do, protect ourselves and leave everyone else alone.

 

[Jersay]

Listen, we, Canadian soldiers, which I am apart of we have two jobs.

Now, we have the Canadian job where we protect you guys from the big bag evils out there in the world.

And then we have the overseas job where you get to do something to promote Canada and Canadian values but get a big wad of cash for doing it.

So pay up for home government jobs, or let us do our jobs and go overseas.

 

[PoisonPete2]

There is morality behind this offensive.

REPONSE: Let's see, we are sending troops to Afghanistan to support a 'government' that really only represents American Corporate interests and whose principle domestic alliances are with the 'free enterprising' opium producing War Lords. The enemy we are fighting consists mostly of supporters of the previous rulers in Afghanistan (Taliban) who thought they should rule because they fought so hard to free their country from the oppressive previous regime (Communists). Now these Taliban are the enemy because??? A: they sought to establish a 'religious State' (kind of like what Israel has, but non-Jewish), B: many of them cheered as other Muslims struck against the USA (long a supporter of Tyrants), C: they refused to acceed to American demands that did not recognize the Sovereignty of Afghanistan, D: they blew up some huge old statues.

But in the end, it is not the Taliban who are dying in this Occupation. It is just more innocent civilians. Now it will be the Canadians doing the killing so the Americans can go off and plot against Iran.

That doesn't sound so 'moral' to me, just awfully 'offensive'.

Let's have some real debate in this country, or are you afraid that democracy may break out in Canada?

 

[Jersay]

There is morality behind this offensive.[/quote]

REPONSE: Let's see, we are sending troops to Afghanistan to support a 'government' that really only represents American Corporate interests and whose principle domestic alliances are with the 'free enterprising' opium producing War Lords. The enemy we are fighting consists mostly of supporters of the previous rulers in Afghanistan (Taliban) who thought they should rule because they fought so hard to free their country from the oppressive previous regime (Communists). Now these Taliban are the enemy because??? A: they sought to establish a 'religious State' (kind of like what Israel has, but non-Jewish), B: many of them cheered as other Muslims struck against the USA (long a supporter of Tyrants), C: they refused to acceed to American demands that did not recognize the Sovereignty of Afghanistan, D: they blew up some huge old statues.

But in the end, it is not the Taliban who are dying in this Occupation. It is just more innocent civilians. Now it will be the Canadians doing the killing so the Americans can go off and plot against Iran.

That doesn't sound so 'moral' to me, just awfully 'offensive'.

Let's have some real debate in this country, or are you afraid that democracy may break out in Canada?

Now I will go over to the other side and straigthen you out a bit.

First they oppressed women.

They killed thousands if not tens of thousands in killing fields.

They did not fight the communists, Mujahedeen formed before them did, they were created in 1994 or 1995 and took Kandarhar and marched to Kabul and captured it in 1997 or 1998.

I do agree that America does support tyrants and Israel is a religious state.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

The fact that Afghanistan needed help is of course true, but our reasons for going are without morality, integrity, decency, honesty, or goodness.....it is the attack on an ally of ours that led us down this road....and to be honest, an ally that had it coming. If you look at the history of America's role in Afghanistan in 1979, you can see that the attacks of 911 were not without provocation.

3000 dead citizens from all over the world had it coming and you speak of morality? :roll: What does American foreign policy have to do with dead Canadians, British and other citizens? Give your head a shake.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

Hey! Hi ITN!

Okay, go back to the serious stuff.

 

[Jay]

It's like suddenly 9/11 didn't happen....

 

[I think not]

Let's see, we are sending troops to Afghanistan to support a 'government' that really only represents American Corporate interests and whose principle domestic alliances are with the 'free enterprising' opium producing War Lords.

Sounds alot better than supporting the Taliban, doesn't it?

The enemy we are fighting consists mostly of supporters of the previous rulers in Afghanistan (Taliban) who thought they should rule because they fought so hard to free their country from the oppressive previous regime (Communists).

And in lieu of communism they plunged Afghanistan into the middle ages under a theocratic state. Oh yes, and had a plethora of terrorist training camps (I guess they paid their rent on time).

Now these Taliban are the enemy because??? A: they sought to establish a 'religious State' (kind of like what Israel has, but non-Jewish),

No, because they harbored terrorists and thought they can get away with it forever. And Israel doesn't penalize it's citizens for practicing their religion, theocratic-fascist states due, like the Taliban.

B: many of them cheered as other Muslims struck against the USA (long a supporter of Tyrants),

The Taliban cheered to my knowledge, and to suggest they were invaded because they cheered is another example of your narrow-minded views.

C: they refused to acceed to American demands that did not recognize the Sovereignty of Afghanistan,

And you can bet it will happen again if terrorists strike America. Since the UN has no authority.

D: they blew up some huge old statues.

That wasn't the reason to invade, your attempts to turn this into a crusade is nothing short of fringe leftist hysteria at its best.

But in the end, it is not the Taliban who are dying in this Occupation. It is just more innocent civilians. Now it will be the Canadians doing the killing so the Americans can go off and plot against Iran. That doesn't sound so 'moral' to me, just awfully 'offensive'.

I suppose sitting behind your monitor typing away doing nothing is more moral?

Let's have some real debate in this country, or are you afraid that democracy may break out in Canada?

Let's get some facts straight first before we even begin to debate.

 

[progressive]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

The fact that Afghanistan needed help is of course true, but our reasons for going are without morality, integrity, decency, honesty, or goodness.....it is the attack on an ally of ours that led us down this road....and to be honest, an ally that had it coming. If you look at the history of America's role in Afghanistan in 1979, you can see that the attacks of 911 were not without provocation.

3000 dead citizens from all over the world had it coming and you speak of morality? :roll: What does American foreign policy have to do with dead Canadians, British and other citizens? Give your head a shake.

The victims of 911 did not deserve to die, but America as a whole got what it had coming.......considering that in the words of Noam Chomsky, every president of the last hundred years should have been tried under the same standards as Nuremberg for international war crimes......so ya, I stand by my assertion that America, though not the same as the individual Americans, had it coming.

 

[I think not]

And by the way, you can supoprt your troops without supporting a governments policies. Troops follow orders and defend your right to freedom of speech, as idiotic as it may be.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

The victims of 911 did not deserve to die, but America as a whole got what it had coming.......considering that in the words of Noam Chomsky, every president of the last hundred years should have been tried under the same standards as Nuremberg for international war crimes......so ya, I stand by my assertion that America, though not the same as the individual Americans, had it coming.

And the Taliban got what they had coming as did Saddam Hussein, short of the civilian casualties. Great logic eh?

 

[Jersay]

ITN has a point you know.

You can support the troops but debate the policy.

 

[progressive]

And by the way, you can supoprt your troops without supporting a governments policies. Troops follow orders and defend your right to freedom of speech, as idiotic as it may be.

While they may think they are protecting my rights, they are there for other reasons.....most of them have no idea what this is all about......so support the cause all you want, it has nothing to do with doing what's right.