Is the GDP corporatist propaganda?

[quinton]

According to this philospher and author Dave Pollard, our well-being should be measured with GPI (Genuine Progress Indicator).

GPI apparently takes into account resource depletion, crime, household and leisure time, pollution, wealth distribution, lifepsan of consumer goods, dependence on foreign imports, etc...

which are all ignored by GDP.

Definitions of GPI:

http://www.cyberus.ca/~sustain1/Question/GPI.html

http://www.rprogress.org/projects/gpi/

Author Dave Pollard's idealistic blog on his ideas of how to save the world:

http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/2004/11/29.html#a969

I personally, think there is probably something that the GPI is missing because it does not show a substantial drop from 1950 to today.

I would expect to see a huge drop since there are much less resources per capita. I think that life on earth is overall worse than 1950 by far.

The GDP suggests our wellbeing has more than doubled since 1950, which is absurd. For one, we have lost millions of hectares of pristine old growth forest since 1950.

What are your opinions?

 

[Senathos]

RE: Is the GDP corporatis

If you belive in communism, you will like GPI. To suggest that our wellbeing has NOT doubled since 1950 is absurd... have you heard about technology and computers? These things all allow us to do so much more then was ever possible in times past. I think someone needs to stop drinking the Marxjuice and take a look at what is really going on.

 

[Jay]

According to this philospher and author Dave Pollard, our well-being should be measured with GPI (Genuine Progress Indicator).

GPI apparently takes into account resource depletion, crime, household and leisure time, pollution, wealth distribution, lifepsan of consumer goods, dependence on foreign imports, etc...

which are all ignored by GDP.

Definitions of GPI:

http://www.cyberus.ca/~sustain1/Question/GPI.html

http://www.rprogress.org/projects/gpi/

Author Dave Pollard's idealistic blog on his ideas of how to save the world:

http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/2004/11/29.html#a969

I personally, think there is probably something that the GPI is missing because it does not show a substantial drop from 1950 to today.

I would expect to see a huge drop since there are much less resources per capita. I think that life on earth is overall worse than 1950 by far.

The GDP suggests our wellbeing has more than doubled since 1950, which is absurd. For one, we have lost millions of hectares of pristine old growth forest since 1950.

What are your opinions?

My opinion is the GDP is what it is, and the GPI is what it is.


Corporatist propaganda? Some people will say just about anything.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Is the GDP corporatis

If you belive in communism, you will like GPI. To suggest that our wellbeing has NOT doubled since 1950 is absurd... have you heard about technology and computers? These things all allow us to do so much more then was ever possible in times past. I think someone needs to stop drinking the Marxjuice and take a look at what is really going on.

Well if real income means anything to you it hasn,t risen since 1975 or there abouts. What kind of juice do you drink Senathos? While the tech and com stuff do allow us to do much more is it much better?

 

[Hank C]

Regardless GDP in Canada has lost ground over the years not only to the United States, but in comparisons to the world. It does have a negative effect of quality of life, although it is not the only factor. The simple fact is that the American worker has become much more productive than the Canadian worker. The impact if we were to raise our productivity to similar levels would be great for Canada.

 

[Hank C]

I would also like to point out the avg GDP in Alberta is something like 40% above the Canadian avg, and at or above the American avg.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Is the GDP corporatist propaganda?

Regardless GDP in Canada has lost ground over the years not only to the United States, but in comparisons to the world. It does have a negative effect of quality of life, although it is not the only factor. The simple fact is that the American worker has become much more productive than the Canadian worker. The impact if we were to raise our productivity to similar levels would be great for Canada.

While the American worker has become more productive that same worker has also become stupider because he/she is working longer for less.

 

[Toro]

RE: Is the GDP corporatis

No.

Next question.

 

[Jay]

Good avatar Toro!

 

[Toro]

RE: Is the GDP corporatis

Do they dress up at Wal-Mart?

I've never been there before.

 

[Jay]

Thanks for the compliment Toro!

I always wear my finest soiled jogging pants when I go....

 

[quinton]

Well considering newspapers are owned by private corporations such as the Irving Corporation in NB and NS, I think articles measuring well-being with the GDP is corporatist propaganda.

In my mind the lower the GDP the better. If I had my way there would be so few Canadians that we could all afford to be subsistence farmers in co-operative rural communities in the nicer climates of Canada and we'd all sustainably use wood heating and have wilderness left in Southern Canada.

This Canada couldn't have more than 10 million however.

 

[Senathos]

Re: RE: Is the GDP corporatist propaganda?

Well considering newspapers are owned by private corporations such as the Irving Corporation in NB and NS, I think articles measuring well-being with the GDP is corporatist propaganda.

In my mind the lower the GDP the better. If I had my way there would be so few Canadians that we could all afford to be subsistence farmers in co-operative rural communities in the nicer climates of Canada and we'd all sustainably use wood heating and have wilderness left in Southern Canada.

This Canada couldn't have more than 10 million however.

I guess you would like to live in Africa and Afghanistan then, with the low GDP and all.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Is the GDP corporatist propaganda?

Well considering newspapers are owned by private corporations such as the Irving Corporation in NB and NS, I think articles measuring well-being with the GDP is corporatist propaganda.

In my mind the lower the GDP the better. If I had my way there would be so few Canadians that we could all afford to be subsistence farmers in co-operative rural communities in the nicer climates of Canada and we'd all sustainably use wood heating and have wilderness left in Southern Canada.

This Canada couldn't have more than 10 million however.

When will you be leaving?

 

[the caracal kid]

"When will you be leaving? "

why is that type of snarky attitude always show up in this scenario?

 

[Finder]

Hmmm somewhat Utopian, too bad to agree with you, you woul;d have to force people to live by how you believe they should live and then somehow send 22million people to dea.... I mean happy camps where they just... ummm.... disapear....

Anyhow Canada being the second largest nation in the world is sparcely populated as it is. But I do agree we need to find away to spread out the urban sprawl

 

[quinton]

Senathos and Toro:

1) What makes you think I'd want to live in Africa and Afghanistan? They have worse population densities than Canada. Africa's low density countries are desert.

(Source: http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/infopays/rank/densite2.html)

2) Leaving? Who me? Nope, sorry I have no plans to leave Canada, just the part of Canada that I currently reside.

 

[quinton]

Finder, nothing of what you say makes sense.

I am against both urban sprawl and "smart growth".

You might even say I am against growth. And if it pertains to human population, human resource consumption per capita, or economics/gdp, you would be right in saying that I am anti-growth.

I won't be having children of my own because it would be no advantage to me. In fact it would make me have to work for the system longer. The world is already overpopulated and if I felt that I really wanted to raise a child, I'd adopt one who would otherwise die of starvation.

Passing on my genes does not mean anything to me. My ego is not big enough for it to matter.

I am even against automobile usage.

These are my ideals, like them or not.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Is the GDP corporatist propaganda?

"When will you be leaving? "

why is that type of snarky attitude always show up in this scenario?

When someone postulates that 10 million is the ideal population for the country, that means that 20 million have to leave. Of course, in such a scenario, the premise of the writer usually does not include that he/she is part of the problem, that the 10 million, or whatever number wants to throw around, includes the writer.

Or as PJ O'Rourke put it. "Just enough of me. Way too much of you."

 

[quinton]

Toro I never said 10 million was the ideal population for Canada.

According to my ideals, it would be less than 10 million.

I just said that it certainly couldn't be higher than 10 million for everyone to be able to afford their own good arable land to support their family.

This scenario doesn't mean that about 23 million people have to leave now. It could be theoretically achieved through reducing immigration and reducing the birth rate.