Canadians To Carry New ID

Curiosity

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www.torontostar.com

Canadians to need ID card, Day says
Feb. 17, 2006. 04:53 PM
CANADIAN PRESS


OTTAWA — Sooner or later, Canadians will have to carry some form of identification other than a passport to travel outside the country, the new federal minister of public safety said today.

The British Commons has just adopted legislation for a government-issued national ID card and Stockwell Day suggested in an interview with The Canadian Press that such a card is inevitable for Canada.

"At this point, I don't know what it should be called, to tell you the truth," Day said.

"I don't know if we'll call it that, but we want good, law-abiding people to have smooth and quick access at all border points — not just North American, but international."

New life is being breathed into the proposal now that the United States has dropped its demand that Canadians be required to show passports to cross the border.

"We also want to be able to stop people who are a menace or a threat from getting in or getting out, so that's the overall goal," Day said.

Day said the need for identification of some sort came up again this week when he spoke on the phone with his U.S. counterpart, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

"I think it's fair to say that in both Canada and the U.S. we do want some kind of enhanced security provision," he said.

"Whether that's some kind of a biometric approach, an enhancement on a driver's licence — all of that needs to be explored, so we do want to see enhanced technological capacity in that area."

The idea of a national ID card was raised in the months following the Sept.11, 2001, terror attacks on the United States but proposals go back even further, as a way of replacing the abused social insurance number.

The SIN was meant only for federal government documents but evolved over the years for such uses as ID for cheque-writing. Today, there are more SINs than people as government lost control over them.

Former Liberal Immigration minister Denis Coderre has always supported a card to identify Canadians, over and above the passport.

He says a plastic card could be made to contain biometric and data information that a paper passport could not.

His proposal in 2003 — which some estimates put as high as $5 billion to implement — did not get a good reception by a Commons committee looking at the idea.

Critics at the time recalled how the Liberal gun registry started out with a price tag of only $2 million and ended up costing hundreds of millions more and said the ID card was a boondoggle-in-waiting.

Coderre said this week that it's only a matter of time before other countries follow Britain and that Canada should act to ensure control over data.

" We have to have a real debate on this . . . we cannot bury our head in the sand anymore," Coderre said. "Something is going on worldwide and we have to have that debate.

"Three years ago we were in the avant-garde, but right now we're trailing."

Oh heck let's all get biometric chips implanted and be done with it!!! All these prissy little steps only cost more money and then fail. (sarcasm here - sorry).
 

missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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A tasteful numbered tattoo on the arm, such as certain peoples had during the Nazi regimes, could be a simple solution :) I'll bet IBM would be glad to help us out with this,after all,they did it for the Germans.
 

OpnSrc

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Well something has to be done... I have a friend who now can never cross the border again, because after 9/11 he went for a bike ride (planned on seeing the Canadian River in NY) and was stopped at the US border because when he was 17 he was caught for shoplifting ... he's 42 now and he is considered an "Undesirable". Heaven forbid rotten criminals like my friend pass through the borders right under our noses.

Today he owns a profitable construction company, has a wife and 2 kids, owns his own house... hell of a great guy... but on paper he's a deviant.. prone to one day return to his teenage lust for stealing baseballs!
 

Curiosity

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Jul 30, 2005
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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

OpnSrc said:
Well something has to be done... I have a friend who now can never cross the border again, because after 9/11 he went for a bike ride (planned on seeing the Canadian River in NY) and was stopped at the US border because when he was 17 he was caught for shoplifting ... he's 42 now and he is considered an "Undesirable". Heaven forbid rotten criminals like my friend pass through the borders right under our noses.

Today he owns a profitable construction company, has a wife and 2 kids, owns his own house... hell of a great guy... but on paper he's a deviant.. prone to one day return to his teenage lust for stealing baseballs!

OpnSrc

Sorry but that story sounds a tad hysterical. Most juvenile records are not available to any law enforcement agency.

If it is true there is more to his story than he is willing to share or he was an adult at the time.

If it is true, he can get special exemption and have his juvenile record expunged.

I do it all the time in California for youthful offenders who have grown up straight.

If he has a clean record since that incident, he is hanging onto the story as an anecdotal expression of something he wishes to prove...not about himself.
 

Andem

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Mar 24, 2002
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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

TenPenny said:
Why would a person need something other than a passport? Just improve the security of the passport, that's all.

Sorry man, but I refuse to carry around my passport with me.. it's big, bulky and it gets destroyed easy -- and it doesn't fit in my wallet.

Most European countries have National ID cards and to travel between them, you just carry your ID card. It's handy to have just one card.. it also identifies you to the police incase of a problem; not everyone I know has a drivers license.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

OpnSrc said:
Well something has to be done... I have a friend who now can never cross the border again, because after 9/11 he went for a bike ride (planned on seeing the Canadian River in NY) and was stopped at the US border because when he was 17 he was caught for shoplifting ... he's 42 now and he is considered an "Undesirable". Heaven forbid rotten criminals like my friend pass through the borders right under our noses.

Today he owns a profitable construction company, has a wife and 2 kids, owns his own house... hell of a great guy... but on paper he's a deviant.. prone to one day return to his teenage lust for stealing baseballs!

Well that is just stupidity, we seriously need to re-evaluate a few things if we keep high risk baseball offenders out. :roll:
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

Wednesday's Child said:
OpnSrc said:
Well something has to be done... I have a friend who now can never cross the border again, because after 9/11 he went for a bike ride (planned on seeing the Canadian River in NY) and was stopped at the US border because when he was 17 he was caught for shoplifting ... he's 42 now and he is considered an "Undesirable". Heaven forbid rotten criminals like my friend pass through the borders right under our noses.

Today he owns a profitable construction company, has a wife and 2 kids, owns his own house... hell of a great guy... but on paper he's a deviant.. prone to one day return to his teenage lust for stealing baseballs!

OpnSrc

Sorry but that story sounds a tad hysterical. Most juvenile records are not available to any law enforcement agency.

If it is true there is more to his story than he is willing to share or he was an adult at the time.

If it is true, he can get special exemption and have his juvenile record expunged.

I do it all the time in California for youthful offenders who have grown up straight.

If he has a clean record since that incident, he is hanging onto the story as an anecdotal expression of something he wishes to prove...not ab

out himself.

Just a point.

25 years ago you were legally considered an adult at 16, so a crime committed at that time at the age of 17 is a criminal record.
 

Curiosity

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Jul 30, 2005
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More security systems are required...

...because I believe because the original ones which have been in place for years are fallible....full of errors, out of date, and people haven't taken responsibility for keeping their own personal IDs up to speed....only we have never had to "test" them for validity.

So, they want to redo the system and no doubt it will fail.

I have a feeling the system is so out of order, they are doing a CYA in getting it brought up to date.

It also gives an old bureaucracy some much needed funding.
 

Curiosity

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Jul 30, 2005
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Colpby

Thanks for that reminder.

I just returned to put a caveat on my remark. I am familiar with California only - and perhaps other states have a different adult age....

Additionally a "crime" such as OpnSrc is describing would be one which can easily be expunged by an attorney even if it was considered an adult crime by a 17 year old.

My apologies to OpnSrc if New York has a different age, but at twenty-five years ago, I still believe the adult age was more likely to be 18 or even 21 in most states.
 

OpnSrc

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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

Wednesday's Child said:
OpnSrc said:
Well something has to be done... I have a friend who now can never cross the border again, because after 9/11 he went for a bike ride (planned on seeing the Canadian River in NY) and was stopped at the US border because when he was 17 he was caught for shoplifting ... he's 42 now and he is considered an "Undesirable". Heaven forbid rotten criminals like my friend pass through the borders right under our noses.

Today he owns a profitable construction company, has a wife and 2 kids, owns his own house... hell of a great guy... but on paper he's a deviant.. prone to one day return to his teenage lust for stealing baseballs!

OpnSrc

Sorry but that story sounds a tad hysterical. Most juvenile records are not available to any law enforcement agency.

If it is true there is more to his story than he is willing to share or he was an adult at the time.

If it is true, he can get special exemption and have his juvenile record expunged.

I do it all the time in California for youthful offenders who have grown up straight.

If he has a clean record since that incident, he is hanging onto the story as an anecdotal expression of something he wishes to prove...not about himself.

Unfortunately - US Border and Customs is not California...

Most people beleive the stupid crap they did as a teenager is locked away never to be heard from again - WRONG! Unless you file for a pardon it is still there ... waiting to bite you in the arse.
Now that my friend has been hot flagged at the border.. he not only needs the pardon to go to the US, but also an INS Waiver to be completed and granted. What made things worse for my friend, is when the customs agent asked about his record... he couldn't remember the incident.

I go to the USA all the time, and I have a slight record from when I was a teenage... but it has just been dumb luck they haven't turned me around.

Edit: The US Customs bases it's information gathered from Canadian Records... Not US records... and here in Canada, your Young Offenders Record is not automaticlly expunged or pardon, like alot of people beleive when they turn 18.
 

Curiosity

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Jul 30, 2005
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OpnSrc

Thank you (and to Colpy again) for response to my knee jerk (unresearched reaction).

I think we have all been pretty lax about crossing the 49th as it has historically not been a problem for any of us.

Now I feel we are in the East/West Berlin modus operandi.

Perhaps if there was an informational article put out on both sides of the border for Americans and Canadians (especially when the Olympics happens in Vancouver).... we might avoid all of this by warning people to clean up their past adolescent antics before
they plan on travel - even to Canada.

No doubt many have forgotten some of the dodo stuff we did as kids and the lucky ones were never caught and recorded.

He probably has a bad feeling about travelling south now....and that is really sad....

I think the Customs people were being overzealous however because I have known young people who actually violated others...either in rape or assault in a fight.... who have had their records removed..... and sometimes I believe those should remain into adulthood for a lengthier period of time .... rather than because they reach their age of majority.

Your acquaintance was obviously not in the business of petty crime and without a recent record - they should have given him a warning only. Too bad we aren't warned ahead of time about clearing up any past records we could have.... and our entrance into a foreign country is left up to the "mood" of the person at the checkpoint....
 

OpnSrc

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Wednesday's Child said:
OpnSrc

Thank you (and to Colpy again) for response to my knee jerk (unresearched reaction).

I think we have all been pretty lax about crossing the 49th as it has historically not been a problem for any of us.

Now I feel we are in the East/West Berlin modus operandi.

Perhaps if there was an informational article put out on both sides of the border for Americans and Canadians (especially when the Olympics happens in Vancouver).... we might avoid all of this by warning people to clean up their past adolescent antics before
they plan on travel - even to Canada.

No doubt many have forgotten some of the dodo stuff we did as kids and the lucky ones were never caught and recorded.

He probably has a bad feeling about travelling south now....and that is really sad....

I think the Customs people were being overzealous however because I have known young people who actually violated others...either in rape or assault in a fight.... who have had their records removed..... and sometimes I believe those should remain into adulthood for a lengthier period of time .... rather than because they reach their age of majority.

Your acquaintance was obviously not in the business of petty crime and without a recent record - they should have given him a warning only. Too bad we aren't warned ahead of time about clearing up any past records we could have.... and our entrance into a foreign country is left up to the "mood" of the person at the checkpoint....

Well said Wednesday's Child...

Yes I also think the Border Guards were a tad over-zealous as well and my friend now has a tainted view of the USA...
Both Canada and the USA have some great and amazing qualities that greatly differ from one another, they also both have their pitfalls as well.
I don't know how sticky Canadian Customs Agents are about US criminal records and passing through the border, but I would also suggest cleaning the "wreckage of the past" before attempting a border crossing in a post 9/11 world.

I personally see huge benefits to Canada and US working together on this issue, tightening North American borders, (joint immmigration policies) and allowing for more liberal freedom in the Can-US border crossing.
 

TenPenny

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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

Andem said:
TenPenny said:
Why would a person need something other than a passport? Just improve the security of the passport, that's all.

Sorry man, but I refuse to carry around my passport with me.. it's big, bulky and it gets destroyed easy -- and it doesn't fit in my wallet.

Most European countries have National ID cards and to travel between them, you just carry your ID card. It's handy to have just one card.. it also identifies you to the police incase of a problem; not everyone I know has a drivers license.

So you're saying you don't think you should have to carry your passport for international travel? Isn't that the whole point of a passport?????
 

DasFX

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Dec 6, 2004
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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

TenPenny said:
So you're saying you don't think you should have to carry your passport for international travel? Isn't that the whole point of a passport?????

I would this this card would be more for domestic and/or in the US

I have no problem carrying around a national ID card, I have nothing to hide. What really is the big deal?
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

OpnSrc said:
Well something has to be done... I have a friend who now can never cross the border again, because after 9/11 he went for a bike ride (planned on seeing the Canadian River in NY) and was stopped at the US border because when he was 17 he was caught for shoplifting ... he's 42 now and he is considered an "Undesirable". Heaven forbid rotten criminals like my friend pass through the borders right under our noses.

Today he owns a profitable construction company, has a wife and 2 kids, owns his own house... hell of a great guy... but on paper he's a deviant.. prone to one day return to his teenage lust for stealing baseballs!

Perhaps rather than complaining about the laws, perhaps you should tell your friend that he shouldn't have stole.
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Re: RE: Canadians To Carry New ID

DasFX said:
TenPenny said:
So you're saying you don't think you should have to carry your passport for international travel? Isn't that the whole point of a passport?????

I would this this card would be more for domestic and/or in the US

I have no problem carrying around a national ID card, I have nothing to hide. What really is the big deal?

Well, the start of the thread was about "international travel", so that's what I was thinking about.

As far as going to the US is concerned, I have no problem with requiring a passport; it is, after all, a different country.