Tories shut out of major cities

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
TORONTO (CP) - The shutout of the Tories in Toronto is reflective of a growing divide in Canada between big city voters and their rural counterparts, founded on clashing views on gun control and social services, experts said Tuesday.

"We've got a very major rural-urban rift opening up in the country," said Paul Nesbitt-Larking, a political science professor at the University of Western Ontario in London, Ont. "It's not just Toronto, but it's also other urban centres, with the singular exception of Calgary."

The Conservatives did not garner one federal seat in the country's three largest cities of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Within Ontario, the few gains prime minister-designate Stephen Harper earned were mainly in smaller urban centres - Barrie, Burlington, Chatham and Kitchener, for instance.

"It's very clear the people in cities, in the major cities, voted for parties that in the last Parliament, had delivered programs for the people that live in cities," Toronto Mayor David Miller said.

"By Torontonians and people in Vancouver and Montreal voting for their cities, it sends a strong message that cities' needs need to be addressed if you're going to succeed electorally in the city."

Crime and punishment was a central theme of Harper's campaign, and while gun violence was an issue primarily plaguing pockets of Toronto, the Conservative leader's hardline stance did not resonate with the majority of that city's voters.

"In the urban areas, much more emphasis is on what needs to be done to prevent and forestall the causes of crime and criminal behaviour," Nesbitt-Larking said.

"In the rural areas, guns are not considered to be the issue . . . (there is) much more emphasis therefore on punishing the offenders and not worrying about the guns."

Another key factor was concern over the provision of the social safety net - services including child care and health care, platforms the Conservatives have not been traditionally known for, Nesbitt-Larking said.

The Conservative pledge to kill a planned national child-care program likely scared off Toronto voters who were undecided until Monday, he added.


The city's highly visible immigrant population also helped buoy the Liberals and allow the NDP to secure two gains in Toronto, said David Hulchanski, director of the Centre for Urban and Community Studies at the University of Toronto.

"The Liberals manage to speak to them, and the NDP manages, and an American-style Republican just doesn't connect," Hulchanski said, emphasizing the differences between today's Conservatives and the Progressive Conservative party of years past.

"The Stephen Harper Conservative party is a U.S.-style Republican party and I think there's about 25 to 30 per cent core support in Canada for that . . . and it is a rural, small-town, small city kind of constituency."

"They're not the Brian Mulroney PCs, they're not Joe Clark PCs . . . and voters know that."


When asked what Harper would need to do to win more votes in Toronto, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said he would need to "indicate that he has a good grasp of the urban agenda."

"If cities are working well, we've got a great province and a great country," McGuinty said, adding that without assuring cities are well-equipped to finance housing, infrastructure and other needs, they would "drag on economic growth" in Canada.
http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?src=n012449A.xml
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
Cities are products of the provinces, and should look there for additional funding. Harper will transfer more money to the provinces which will ultimately benefit the cities.
 

Freethinker

Electoral Member
Jan 18, 2006
315
0
16
RE: Tories shut out of ma

I don't think this is a fiscal issue. This is almost the same split as the US red state/blue state. People who live in urban multicultural area tend to vote more progressively, while people in rural areas tend to vote more conservatively.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Well I'm really hopeing Harper has changed. I have hope here, that he will put a lot conservative principals away and start with governmental reforms which we need. *crosses fingers* I'm really hopeing it.s not all that bad
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: Tories shut out of ma

Freethinker said:
I don't think this is a fiscal issue. This is almost the same split as the US red state/blue state. People who live in urban multicultural area tend to vote more progressively, while people in rural areas tend to vote more conservatively.

I could not agree more. I think part of it is that people of a certain mindset are drawn to cities or rural areas. I was raised in a rural area in BC, but moved to Vancouver, then Toronto, and am now living outside of LA. My brother by contrast moved to Smithers!!! On almost all social issues, he's conservative and I'm progressive. If I was more conservative, I probably would have moved somewhere like Smithers too.

I also think the immigrant issue is a big one. The Liberals and the NDP are better at getting their message out in those communities. In reality, most immigrants I know (and that's a lot considering where I lived :lol: ) were pretty conservative people. The Conservative party should get more votes there than they do, so they clearly need to work on that for the next election.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
I'm not sure the urban voters are all that progressive if
you want to argue the semantics of what "progressive"
means.

In addition, having the urban centers dominate
the rural vote, in my opinion, would be a loss
for both.

The rural has a quality missing in the urban mindthink
and of course vice versa.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
It depends. the Tories were the only party to pick up seats in all the major metropolitan areas. That includes some seats around Vancouver, Toronto ...Ottawa, Quebec City, Winnipeg,all of Calgary, Edmonton...etc. The actual 'cities' of Vancouver and Toronto are a legal beast and not urban vs rural but inner urban vs outer urban.
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
647
0
16
Finder said:
Well I'm really hopeing Harper has changed. I have hope here, that he will put a lot conservative principals away and start with governmental reforms which we need. *crosses fingers* I'm really hopeing it.s not all that bad

Harper will need to score some successes to inspire confidence that he can lead. He is not going to table contentious issues just to have them shot down. That would be stupid. He will begin with something like the accountability bill to open dialog. He doesn’t have a mandate to transform the country as he would perhaps like to.


Perhaps a clue to any Convservative/NDP cooperation can be found in Manitoba. The Premier is NDP but in this election the conservatives got about 43% of the vote and the NDP about 25%. In the south I know there once was a tradition where states went democrat but nationally they voted republican. Moving from NDP to conservative is more of a stretch. In Selkirk-Interlake 49% voted conservative and 37% voted NDP. Must be a dangerous but interesting community. It’s rural as well. I don't really know what to make of this.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I don't know... if the NDP had gotten two more seats or the Conservatives gained two more then it would be possiable. But from what the leaders have said in the last 24 hours and experts. Harper could try to put threw some neo-conservative programs thinking nobody would dare have another election so soon.

I'm hopeing he focuses on government reform, electoral reform, and we know that GST will easily be moved forward though GST being reduced makes no sence at only 1% and even 2% the savings on a low income family is next to nothing. I'm scared of the serves he will cut with the reduction of tax. I'm hoping none!

Also if the Conservatives really try... they could form a lose alliance with the NDP on common ground issues, try to get the quebec indie on board and then elect a liberal as speaker of the house and they wouldn't need to worry really. Also if they could pull one or two conservatives in the bloq over it would give them some leeway.
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
0
16
Freethinker is essentially correct.

I think that we may see a rural/urban divide in Canada similiar to the rural/urban divide in the U.S.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
yes, there are major demographic differences between the cities and the rural populations. The breakdown of which reveals quite a bit about the validities of the party platforms.
 

KanBob

Nominee Member
Jan 11, 2006
71
0
6
Alberta
Finder said:
Harper could try to put threw some neo-conservative programs thinking nobody would dare have another election so soon.

I'm hopeing he focuses on government reform, electoral reform, and we know that GST will easily be moved forward though GST being reduced makes no sence at only 1% and even 2% the savings on a low income family is next to nothing. I'm scared of the serves he will cut with the reduction of tax. I'm hoping none!

Why not just take Harper on his word? He said he has five priorities and you can expect that will be his focus. The GST is a shoo-in. He can do that without parliament.

What are the other Conservative programs he has promoted that you are so afraid of? Harper is not, and never was, one of the "social Conservatives" everyone seems to be so spooked about. Doesn't typically go to that scary institution called church, hasn't really revealed his personal views on abortion (good for him!) So what exactly makes him a social conservative? Guilt by association?

He is an economic conservative. That is, good value for good money. Doesn't necessarily believe in the hard-on statist approach that Liberals and NDP so love.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Freethinker is essentially correct.
I think that we may see a rural/urban divide in Canada similiar to the rural/urban divide in the U.S.
---------------------------Triple_R-------------------------

But add what Colpy said:
It depends. the Tories were the only party to pick up seats in all the major metropolitan areas. That includes some seats around Vancouver, Toronto ...Ottawa, Quebec City, Winnipeg,all of Calgary, Edmonton...etc. The actual 'cities' of Vancouver and Toronto are a legal beast and not urban vs rural but inner urban vs outer urban.

And KanBob's post previous to this post looks like the most accurate take on what Harper is going to do.
 

yballa09

Electoral Member
Sep 8, 2005
103
0
16
Rexburg, Idaho
i know many ndp and liberal supporters are very wary of Harper, and i have a question. Given the platform that harper released, i am quite supportive on many issues from it. Would you ndp and liberal supporters be satisfied, or content if harper simply followed through on what he has said he would do? perhaps you may not agree with everything, but at least for me if he follows through with what he promised i will be very happy.
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
2
38
Most new Canadians settle in the major cities. Which ever party opens the gates the widest will get the most votes.

Harper said he would list the Tamil Tigers as terrorists which the Liberals refused to do.

Who do you think that large block of voters voted for?

As some guy noted today, Sri Lanka celebrated Harper's win too.
 

JomZ

Electoral Member
Aug 18, 2005
273
0
16
Reentering the Fray at CC.net
It all depends yballa,

The two issues Harper will have serious problems with are the child care and the crime bills. These are the two divisive factors that led to his downfall in Toronto support, many see them as not thought out ($1200.00 a year = only $3-$4 daily).

Like many of you said above, his stance on crime is reactive and serves to do something only after the crime has happened instead of eliminating the elements that lead to crime. To many urban voters it seems like it is not enough.
 

Ten Packs

Council Member
Nov 21, 2004
1,505
5
38
Kamloops BC
I really wish someone could come up with a more accurate term than "rural".... I live in a city of nearly a hundred-thousand, other so-called "rural" locations are twice that or more. Is Kelowna "rural"? Is EDMONTON???

We're not a bunch of yokels, wandering around in overalls and gum-boots, with a piece of straw hanging out our mouths.
Hell, ever since Pappy done run that second line in from the well last year, we's even got INDOOR WATER!
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
yea I think it is the immigrants who are unable to accept that there needs to be a change of gov't every few decades. I think many of them vote for the name Liberal rather than the actual party platforms. Cities like Toronto and Vancouver are awash with immigrants who are unwilling to vote for anyone but Liberals........thank god most born Canadians were able to overturn this trend of 1 party liberal rule.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Re: RE: Tories shut out of major cities

Ten Packs said:
I really wish someone could come up with a more accurate term than "rural".... I live in a city of nearly a hundred-thousand, other so-called "rural" locations are twice that or more. Is Kelowna "rural"? Is EDMONTON???

We're not a bunch of yokels, wandering around in overalls and gum-boots, with a piece of straw hanging out our mouths.
Hell, ever since Pappy done run that second line in from the well last year, we's even got INDOOR WATER!

I was watching CPAC this morning and the Conservatives actually rec'd a higher % of so-called non-rural vote than the Liberals did and a much higher % than the NDP.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Re: RE: Tories shut out of major cities

Ten Packs said:
We're not a bunch of yokels, wandering around in overalls and gum-boots, with a piece of straw hanging out our mouths.
Hell, ever since Pappy done run that second line in from the well last year, we's even got INDOOR WATER!

:lol: