Paul Martin and his progressive values on abortion.

[Uncle_Jalapeno]

Paul Martin likes to wrap himself in the Charter of Rights and tell everyone what a progressive guy he is. He was once adamantly opposed to abortion http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2459/39950
Seems like he has values of convience.

 

[tracy]

Or maybe he changed his mind? My parents used to be pro-life (having adopted 2children), but they changed their views after the pro-lifers got all crazy.

 

[cyberclark]

The Liberals for their misgivings have never attempted to tinker the Charter of Rights to promote their own agenda or that of big business.

I still think Harper wants to open the Carter on a weak knee effort like property rights. A good catch phrase. Then, once opened he will change the charter to prevent any attacks on the rights of people in health care and any number of other areas.

The trick is getting the charter re opened. Once opened the signatories can all back out if they want. Dam this is a dangerous time!

 

[Jersay]

Harper says he has done an about spin and his view on some issues have softened in the past 18 months.

Why can't Martin do the same.

 

[cyberclark]

I think you may be right. Both these parties are driven by the WTO agenda. How fast you get there and what do you leave behind seem to be the only differences.

I have known very good people who have gone into politics to better their community and after they are elected they turn into political machines with all the lies and misdirections in place.

I see where Google are trying to resist George's push to get all the IP addresses from net searches. More specific who searches what. Yahoo has already signed on and Googles stock took at hit.

How much you want to bet that Harper's first choice for a change in the charter of rights has to do with internet access??

They own the media; the only thing open is the net!

 

[Freethinker]

Paul Martin likes to wrap himself in the Charter of Rights and tell everyone what a progressive guy he is. He was once adamantly opposed to abortion http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2459/39950
Seems like he has values of convience.

Adamantly Opposed. Care to show which vague out of context quote you are referring to?

Saying he was opposed to abortion on demand and wanting to harmonize the 10 different approaches doesn't sound like Adamantly Opposed. That was also 15 years ago.

He is clear and an unequivocal today that he supports the womens right to choose. Something that Stephen Harper has never said. All he has said is that his government will not introduce a motion this session.

 

[tracy]

[He is clear and an unequivocal today that he supports the womens right to choose. Something that Stephen Harper has never said. All he has said is that his government will not introduce a motion this session.

I find it almost unbelievable that there are people in Canada who want to criminalize abortion... I don't know why. I encounter it here in the US a lot, but until recently it never occured to me that a large group in Canada would seriously try to do that.

 

[Freethinker]

I find it almost unbelievable that there are people in Canada who want to criminalize abortion... I don't know why. I encounter it here in the US a lot, but until recently it never occured to me that a large group in Canada would seriously try to do that.

It is Stephen Harpers view, the core of his party is from our religious right. But I don't seriously think he would act on it. Not unless he served several back to back terms and felt he had shifted the country to his moral viewpoint. At this time it would be political suicide.

But he will also never speak clearly in favor of a womens right to choose because it would alienate his base.

 

[NSA]

RE: Paul Martin and his p

Most of those quotes were from the late 80's! Are people not allowed to change their minds, as the times change? Consistency in and of itself is not a good thing, if one changes one's mind from a poor position to a better one.

 

[Colpy]

Harper says he has done an about spin and his view on some issues have softened in the past 18 months.

Why can't Martin do the same.

I agree.

If you had asked me thirty some years ago, my political views would have been damned close to Marxism.

Now I'm damn close to being the most right-wing individual on this board.

It's been a steep learning curve.

People's opinions change.

 

[#juan]

Now I'm damn close to being the most right-wing individual on this board.

Like just slightly to the right of Ghenghis Khan, and Attilla the Hun. :wink:

 

[KanBob]

Why is this even a topic of discussion, when no party will ever propose a bill on abortion, and haven't since the last one, in 1989, died in the senate?

It is a red herring that always comes up just before voting day, to quietly die, because no party raises it again until just before voting day.

Get real.

 

[FiveParadox]

And if a Conservative Member of Parliament does table a legislative measure in relation to abortion, KanBob?

 

[KanBob]

Re: RE: Paul Martin and his progressive values on abortion.

And if a Conservative Member of Parliament does table a legislative measure in relation to abortion, KanBob?

There are plenty of Liberal members to pull that pin as well. It doesn't matter which member tries it. Private members bill rarely even make it to the floor of the house, and more rarely than that win approval.

It's like being afraid a meteor is going to destroy the earth. Maybe one day. What are the real, honest chances?

In the case of abortion legislation, unsupported by any party (and Harper has specifically said, his government would not support ANY bill on abortion.) I'd say none.

Besides, the position on this issue with the Liberals and Conservatives is the same. Well, almost. This week Paul Martin said he would allow a free vote on the issue (whatever the gist of the issue was) except for cabinet.

Harper is on record that ALL MP's of his party would have a free vote on the issue, including cabinet. But a free vote, allowed by either party, is not support in committee and on the calendar.

Besides, it is not on any party's agenda. It is only fear-mongering to raise it. It's a dead issue in more ways than one.

 

[FiveParadox]

KanBob, Cabinet solidarity is an extremely important part of Canada's system of governance; for the Executive to speak in one unified voice, in the name of the Crown, for the Government of Canada. The Cabinet is normally required the support the program of the Government; if someone is not willing to support the Government, as a Minister of the Crown, then such a person should not accept a ministerial portfolio, in my opinion.

 

[KanBob]

Re: RE: Paul Martin and his progressive values on abortion.

KanBob, Cabinet solidarity is an extremely important part of Canada's system of governance; for the Executive to speak in one unified voice, in the name of the Crown, for the Government of Canada. The Cabinet is normally required the support the program of the Government; if someone is not willing to support the Government, as a Minister of the Crown, then such a person should not accept a ministerial portfolio, in my opinion.

So is confidence of the house, but that didn't matter to Martin last spring.

I understand cabinet solidarity, I also understand why it need not be a requirement on some issues that are best settled with free and democratic votes.

 

[FiveParadox]

A motion to adjourn the House is not a matter of confidence; furthermore, a motion to instruct a Committee to recommend that the Government resign is not a matter of confidence unless the Committee actually did the report, and the House voted to concur in the report.

Furthermore, when it comes right down to it, according to constitutional convention, the Prime Minister decides what issues, other than budgets and the Speech from the Throne, are issues of confidence.

 

[cyberclark]

Harper is in with the Fraser Institure which embraces the religious right in the US and Canada. I'm not clear in my mind if this is because of belief of some kind or just good old fashioned political opportunisim!

I have heard it said by conservatives that moderates within the party will prevent any extrems by Harper. I can't see him letting moderates into cabinet.

This character and his cadre scare the living crap out of me!

 

[Citizen]

Paul Martin likes to wrap himself in the Charter of Rights and tell everyone what a progressive guy he is. He was once adamantly opposed to abortion http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2459/39950
Seems like he has values of convience.

I disagree. Paul Martin is a Roman Catholic and everyone knows the Roman Catholic church doesn't agree with abortion. Those out-of-context quotes in that article state clearly that he is "personally" against abortion. There is nothing, anywhere, that says Paul Martin as Prime Minister would ever repeal the abortion law. Martin is able to differentiate between his personal beliefs and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Unlike Harper.

 

[TenPenny]

So Martin can be a member of a conservative, right wing religion that denies equality to women and is against birth control and abortion, and that's okay, because he doesn't believe it anyway. But Harper can't be a member of a religion, because that's too scary.

I understand.