Considerations to shape your votes

cyberclark

Electoral Member
This post includes sources per requests of members. I have not included a basket of URLs for entertainment! I have given my sources as much as I care to. This document is a culmation of 10 years of research. Each project starting with "this isn't right or what's missing?

An example:
Sherritt Gordon mines was bought out by the Ontario's Teacher Association. They in turn bought out Fording Coal. Fording held large tracks of coal across the province both of the heating type and of the metallurgical coal. This is important. In the buy out; Fording kept the metallurgical coal and sherrit took ownership of all the heating coal.

Fording set aside 10 millions of dollars in the budget (thats available on the web) for environmental studies to build an electrial coal generation plant in Bow City Alberta.

Years previous Fording had said it was going to build this coal genration in Brooks Alberta. Also, they were going to build the power lines that would supply Calgary from this plant as part of their deal. Transalta and the Klein Govenrment went against them and got the environmentalists fired up and the plan was defeated.

A few years later, Ralph tells power generation plants they have to divest themselves of the power transmission facilities. But Back to Fording Coal.

There is no Bow City Alberta. It is a project name covering Brooks Alberta.

Fording now think they will be in hearings for 3 years and another 2 years to build the plant at Brooks similar to Sundance.

Aquila a US company is going to build and own the power lines

Here's the kicker. The Fording Genration plant is going to have to buy the coal to operate it off of Sheritt. There is no controls on what can be charged for the price of coal. World market values genrally prevail but here, you have a locked in system. What's it going to cost Albertan's and any othe jurisdiction plugged into this grid?

And, no there is no one or 3 urls that will give you this story but if you are intested sufficiently I'm sure you will make you own inquiries and perhaps then you will feel like your own post.


Why do you vote?- with sources.

In Canadian Politics a great many people are wrapped up in a heads or tails contests, Blue against Red and a big cheer we won, after an election. Who is running, what they plan on doing, how they plan on doing it and their experience is neither weighed nor considered. A national sport! A frustrated joke!

Others, vote for a specific party because of simplistic views. One party is for business and the other is against business. They know this because their parents told them so.

Now, we are into possibly the most important election of our time and these simplistic views or one liner drawn from cocktail conversations are about the shape the future of our country.

I offer simple truths and examples:

Our "Right" of today's politic is so far "right" it would be off the scale of reference for your Grandfather! These are Corporate World right wing parties proplled by the Faser and like institutes that are made up in part by all the Conservaive leaders present and past and senators to be. Many hold joint US /Canadian citizenships.

No party is against business. Each will do what ever it takes to keep business alive and bring on new business. Ralph’s plan in Alberta has driven off business, few survived his utility rates.

Social programs are in the balance. We have a public health care system that has been put in jeopardy by Alberta’s Ralph Klein and with the support of the well connected Fraser Institute. Ralph and Stephen Harper share the same view. “Privatize everything and the world will be a better place.” Many people subscribe to this view not having thought it through.

In the Alberta whole departments of Government have been turned into private agencies. The Government can say they reduced cost and increased efficiency by doing so. In truth, the system is deteriorated and the success rate is picked from select samples of users that will show a positive picture. Prices for the service have been increased and come out of your pocket. The cost of Government remains the same or greater, direct fees to the user skew the figures. Your overall cost is ‘way up!

These privatized departments, now agencies have their board members and chair appointed by the minister. Yet when you as a tax payer have a problem the minister will tell you that they are a private arms length companies which the minister cannot influence. ‘not a crown corporation but operating with funding confused between taxpayers and insurance companies and the latter never looses.

In Alberta, huge amounts of money were paid to rebuild and retrofit a hip replacement hospital. It was then sold to insider interests at the formula of 1 cent on a dollar of value. After title was transferred still more millions went into the hip replacement facility for more upgrades even though the tax payer didn’t own the facility any more!

Meanwhile hip replacements were curtailed by limiting through budget the amount of beds that were available. (Media and phone inquiry, no beds means no money to staff the care, bed remain empty, I was a hospital board member 4 years).
This served to extend the waiting lists causing unnecessary discomfort to many and when the pain was sufficient people were directed to the new private facility. 20 millions of health care dollars went into this place on top of the as paid fees (source financial statement) Ralph says go his way or loose the system?

Customers replace patients on the Third way in Alberta. Customers are given a choice of “you are covered” for lower quality hip and knee replacement or, you can pay them a couple thousand dollars more and they will provide you with “better quality” parts and surgery.(source email complaints and new papers) Mr. Harper’s agenda is identical to this. Do you really want to turn Canada over to him?

MRI machines are paid for, multi millions of dollars, by the tax payers. These are not staffed so only operate 50% of the time creating a waiting list of six months. Albertan’s are told wait six months or pay 600.00 to the private door and wait 2 days. Pain doesn’t matter. Some court influence is needed here (source telephone interview of hospitals).

Makes one wonder why we need ministers and what the Honorable means on the titles.

In Alberta the public parks set aside for camping underwent major improvements funded by the Federal Government and the Provincial Governments. These had new houses for staff; showers and toilets for the public; boat docking facilities were some of the improvements.(Source interviews with terminated employees and new owners)

All were sold on “closed bids” with Government favorites picking up the properties on a 1 cent per dollar of value ratio. Long term staff laid off not compensated. Huge losses to the tax payers who now have to pay for services they have already paid for.

Mr. Harper thinks Mr. Klein’s plan this is perfect. Take a look at the mess in Alberta with the whole province sold off to insiders and think of what Mr. Harper and the Fraser Institute have planned for Canada. Of interest Mr. Manning is also a member of the Fraser institute.

NAFTA included rain water, snow melt etc. in the agreement. (Source NAFT agreement) Mr. Klein is working on a system where he will get a private company in install water meters on farms so that farmers will have to pay for the water they take from the aquifer (well and run off).(Source interview communities not on or adjacent to a river or lake)

Calgary has only about 10 years of water left in the Bow and Elbow rivers and no aquifer rights! 75% of Alberta’s potable water is under ground as in aquifers; wells. Private industry owns the water rights to the aquifers! (Source Alberta Environment) Soon enough Calgary will be buying its water from Coca-Cola!

Mr. Harper thinks this is a good path for Canada to take and will support Ralph and other like minded premiers in this adventure. Soon enough bulk water will become a commodity under Harper. His idea of sovereignty seems warped when put up against trade and commerce.

Mr. Harper’s song about cleaning up Government is a familiar one. Tried and true by Mr. Mulroney. Mr. Mulroney’s cure was to put personal friends in as ADM and put the ADM directly in charge of the department so that no function could take place unless it went past Mr. Mulroney’s chosen. Better control of the Graft and less leaks I think and, you better believe there were funds channeled by this ridged control. Politics is all about favors and who pays and who owes the favor. (A matter of record)

Mr. Harper has said he is not interested in how health care is delivered. Like Alberta he is quite prepared to turn the health care industry over to the Insurance Companies. When he does, your automobile insurance is going to go sky high as he will encourage private insurance to cut costs. (Auto insurance says it cannot afford to pay for medical bills now covered under national health) Now bodily injury will become a profit and loss centre for the insurance as it will fall to them to provide sufficient coverage for hospital stays.

Even worse, the bad losses will be covered by taxpayers while the items which promise profit will be turned over to the private sector. You will be on hooks either as a taxpayer or as a consumer for increased costs. (This is the inevitable path)

In Alberta the Capital Health authority in Calgary in anticipation of the Conservative win is writing up a list of items that will be struck from public health care. (Interview Calgary Health) If you want to see the Doctor on anything on this yet to be published list, you will need your own private insurance or cash, possibly sign away your house.(This is the result of the same plan tried and used in Australia)

This additional charge for basic and upscale health care will need to be paid in part by business who cannot afford it.(Businesses are cutting back on levels of coverage and pension coverage unless you happen to enjoy oil industry employment)

How many Billions of dollars are spent in health care that private industry is missing out on? What a treasure if one can elect a Harper! Driving these changes is the World Trade Organization who finds any government program problematic. (Check WTO links given in other posts)

In Alberta the Mazankowski report on health was the “cornerstone” Mr. Klein requested and claimed to have no insights to. Mr. Mazankowski holds a chair on Great West Life and the “Power Corporation” (Source email Great West Life) His plan was to integrate Power Corp in to the shepherd for Alberta’s Health care. (Source Power Balancing pool to question who owns the 550 millions shown on the financial statement if not the Alberta Taxpayer? Answer own by The Power Corporation)..

Note: Run up the Power Corporation on the Web and see they own Lifeco and Great West Life to name a few. They keep changing URL to stay ahead of web posts)

In “privatizing” electricity the generation was sold by a financial vehicle called the Power Purchase Agreement. There was profitable generation as in coal generation and expensive generation as in gas generation. Closed door selection brought insiders into the buy and many of these resold or “flipped” their PPAs taking the profit from the resale, driving up utility costs. (Source Balancing Pool owners dictate when plant is to produce for the line; gas can’t compete) This operated like a bad mortgage scheme. Klein owns the courts. (No different than WEM courts went to closed and documents were sealed for 50 years when Ralph’s name came up). Accurate estimates indicate Alberta taxpayer lost 60 billions of dollars on this offer! (Source number of newspaper articles by a broad range of interests) Is this organized crime or politics?

The expensive, low profit centers through Klein’s magic ended up in the “Balancing Pool” with PPAs held by the insurance company “Power Corporation” Now we all know insurance companies won’t invest in holding bad stock for some one; we are still trying to find out how they are going to be paid perhaps a trade for Health Care? Do you really trust Harper?

Mr. Klein has so much cash on his table he sees no reason to plan or guide beyond directing an ideal. (No budgets in place for Power Line Expansions etc) The Prime Minister of Canada has no such luxury!

If you have problems with any of this contact your conservative MLA. Don’t allow them to trash the article or your question. Ask where you can find the end documents for these transactions! And, for those of you who look to the lack of .url in the document I will tell you there is a whole world outside of your net experience. Try reading and try to enjoy and take notes of interesting people.

It’s time to consider why you are voting for whom you vote!

I am a card carrying Conservative and I will not be voting Conservative this election!
The thought of a Conservative Government frightens me and should concern you!

John Clark
cyberclark@shaw.ca

http://ralphsworld.blogspot.com/
or
http://ralphsworld.blogspot.com/SubjectArchives.htm
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Eloquent Post

An eloquent and informative post; thank you.

I would agree with you that Canadians, by and large, should, and probably will, approach the Conservative Party of Canada with caution. As supported by an opinion on Question Period, on CTV, Canadians as a whole would rather give the Conservative Party a "probation"-style Government; that is, a Minority Government where they could be defeated on a moment's notice if they "misbehave" themselves.

By and large, though, I would submit that Canadians think that the Liberals are going to win another minority (again, as concurred in by Question Period).
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
"I am a card carrying Conservative and I will not be voting Conservative this election!
The thought of a Conservative Government frightens me and should concern you! "

I wish more Conservatives would think like you. The first election I voted in I voted for Kim Cambells conservatives (I won't mention how that election went). But I do think there's been many good Conservatives and they have had good platforms in the past.

I think a good Government/Republican/Classical ideal to have on governance is the seperation of Church and State, but also the seperation of Coperations and state. What should be puplic property or puplic domain should remain just that. Under the direction of the voters, in the hands of our elected trustee's. In accorance to this government should not go into the private domain either, economically or socially.

Well thats what I think. I might be an NDPer but I'm not some Marxist ideolog
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
All so transparent. The oldest manipulation ploy on the books. 'I used to vote 'x' but....'
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
It's a reasonable statement. The Right Honourable Kim Cambell's Conservatives were not the same party that they are today — contrary to your apparent belief, people are allowed to change their minds every now and again...
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Come on. how phony can it get.

""I am a card carrying Conservative and I will not be voting Conservative this election!
The thought of a Conservative Government frightens me and should concern you! "

I have no -problem with folks changing their mind. I have. Why is this person a card carrying Conservative? They weren't frightened last time? Kept paying out bucks for their membeship?

Duh!
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
good post cyberclark.

people need to recognize this "Conservative" party is not the same party that was called "Progressive Conservative". It is a clever name game to fool those that vote based on name. Harper IS the most dangerous threat to Canada (in any form) to have ever come along.

And for the record, i supported Mulroney.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: Considerations to shape your votes

Calberty said:
All so transparent. The oldest manipulation ploy on the books. 'I used to vote 'x' but....'

Calberty; I liked Kim Cambell. At the time I thought she was standing up for Canadian Military, by doing refits and upgrades the military really needed at the time. I also thought the spending in her government was undercontrol and at the time fitted into my believes. I wasn't going to support Mulroney though, but I was happy he stepped down.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
cyberclark said:
This post includes sources per requests of members. I have not included a basket of URLs for entertainment! I have given my sources as much as I care to. This document is a culmation of 10 years of research. Each project starting with "this isn't right or what's missing?

An example:
Sherritt Gordon mines was bought out by the Ontario's Teacher Association. They in turn bought out Fording Coal. Fording held large tracks of coal across the province both of the heating type and of the metallurgical coal. This is important. In the buy out; Fording kept the metallurgical coal and sherrit took ownership of all the heating coal.

Fording set aside 10 millions of dollars in the budget (thats available on the web) for environmental studies to build an electrial coal generation plant in Bow City Alberta.

Years previous Fording had said it was going to build this coal genration in Brooks Alberta. Also, they were going to build the power lines that would supply Calgary from this plant as part of their deal. Transalta and the Klein Govenrment went against them and got the environmentalists fired up and the plan was defeated.

A few years later, Ralph tells power generation plants they have to divest themselves of the power transmission facilities. But Back to Fording Coal.

There is no Bow City Alberta. It is a project name covering Brooks Alberta.

Fording now think they will be in hearings for 3 years and another 2 years to build the plant at Brooks similar to Sundance.

Aquila a US company is going to build and own the power lines

Here's the kicker. The Fording Genration plant is going to have to buy the coal to operate it off of Sheritt. There is no controls on what can be charged for the price of coal. World market values genrally prevail but here, you have a locked in system. What's it going to cost Albertan's and any othe jurisdiction plugged into this grid? The scene is set for exploitation; conservative style.

And, no there is no one or 3 urls that will give you this story but if you are intested sufficiently I'm sure you will make you own inquiries and perhaps then you will feel like your own post.


Why do you vote?- with sources.

In Canadian Politics a great many people are wrapped up in a heads or tails contests, Blue against Red and a big cheer we won, after an election. Who is running, what they plan on doing, how they plan on doing it and their experience is neither weighed nor considered. A national sport! A frustrated joke!

Others, vote for a specific party because of simplistic views. One party is for business and the other is against business. They know this because their parents told them so.

Now, we are into possibly the most important election of our time and these simplistic views or one liner drawn from cocktail conversations are about the shape the future of our country.

I offer simple truths and examples:

Our "Right" of today's politic is so far "right" it would be off the scale of reference for your Grandfather! These are Corporate World right wing parties proplled by the Faser and like institutes that are made up in part by all the Conservaive leaders present and past and senators to be. Many hold joint US /Canadian citizenships.

No party is against business. Each will do what ever it takes to keep business alive and bring on new business. Ralph’s plan in Alberta has driven off business, few survived his utility rates.

Social programs are in the balance. We have a public health care system that has been put in jeopardy by Alberta’s Ralph Klein and with the support of the well connected Fraser Institute. Ralph and Stephen Harper share the same view. “Privatize everything and the world will be a better place.” Many people subscribe to this view not having thought it through.

In the Alberta whole departments of Government have been turned into private agencies. The Government can say they reduced cost and increased efficiency by doing so. In truth, the system is deteriorated and the success rate is picked from select samples of users that will show a positive picture. Prices for the service have been increased and come out of your pocket. The cost of Government remains the same or greater, direct fees to the user skew the figures. Your overall cost is ‘way up!

These privatized departments, now agencies have their board members and chair appointed by the minister. Yet when you as a tax payer have a problem the minister will tell you that they are a private arms length companies which the minister cannot influence. ‘not a crown corporation but operating with funding confused between taxpayers and insurance companies and the latter never looses.

In Alberta, huge amounts of money were paid to rebuild and retrofit a hip replacement hospital. It was then sold to insider interests at the formula of 1 cent on a dollar of value. After title was transferred still more millions went into the hip replacement facility for more upgrades even though the tax payer didn’t own the facility any more!

Meanwhile hip replacements were curtailed by limiting through budget the amount of beds that were available. (Media and phone inquiry, no beds means no money to staff the care, bed remain empty, I was a hospital board member 4 years).
This served to extend the waiting lists causing unnecessary discomfort to many and when the pain was sufficient people were directed to the new private facility. 20 millions of health care dollars went into this place on top of the as paid fees (source financial statement) Ralph says go his way or loose the system?

Customers replace patients on the Third way in Alberta. Customers are given a choice of “you are covered” for lower quality hip and knee replacement or, you can pay them a couple thousand dollars more and they will provide you with “better quality” parts and surgery.(source email complaints and new papers) Mr. Harper’s agenda is identical to this. Do you really want to turn Canada over to him?

MRI machines are paid for, multi millions of dollars, by the tax payers. These are not staffed so only operate 50% of the time creating a waiting list of six months. Albertan’s are told wait six months or pay 600.00 to the private door and wait 2 days. Pain doesn’t matter. Some court influence is needed here (source telephone interview of hospitals).

Makes one wonder why we need ministers and what the Honorable means on the titles.

In Alberta the public parks set aside for camping underwent major improvements funded by the Federal Government and the Provincial Governments. These had new houses for staff; showers and toilets for the public; boat docking facilities were some of the improvements.(Source interviews with terminated employees and new owners)

All were sold on “closed bids” with Government favorites picking up the properties on a 1 cent per dollar of value ratio. Long term staff laid off not compensated. Huge losses to the tax payers who now have to pay for services they have already paid for.

Mr. Harper thinks Mr. Klein’s plan this is perfect. Take a look at the mess in Alberta with the whole province sold off to insiders and think of what Mr. Harper and the Fraser Institute have planned for Canada. Of interest Mr. Manning is also a member of the Fraser institute.

NAFTA included rain water, snow melt etc. in the agreement. (Source NAFT agreement) Mr. Klein is working on a system where he will get a private company in install water meters on farms so that farmers will have to pay for the water they take from the aquifer (well and run off).(Source interview communities not on or adjacent to a river or lake)

Calgary has only about 10 years of water left in the Bow and Elbow rivers and no aquifer rights! 75% of Alberta’s potable water is under ground as in aquifers; wells. Private industry owns the water rights to the aquifers! (Source Alberta Environment) Soon enough Calgary will be buying its water from Coca-Cola!

Mr. Harper thinks this is a good path for Canada to take and will support Ralph and other like minded premiers in this adventure. Soon enough bulk water will become a commodity under Harper. His idea of sovereignty seems warped when put up against trade and commerce.

Mr. Harper’s song about cleaning up Government is a familiar one. Tried and true by Mr. Mulroney. Mr. Mulroney’s cure was to put personal friends in as ADM and put the ADM directly in charge of the department so that no function could take place unless it went past Mr. Mulroney’s chosen. Better control of the Graft and less leaks I think and, you better believe there were funds channeled by this ridged control. Politics is all about favors and who pays and who owes the favor. (A matter of record)

Mr. Harper has said he is not interested in how health care is delivered. Like Alberta he is quite prepared to turn the health care industry over to the Insurance Companies. When he does, your automobile insurance is going to go sky high as he will encourage private insurance to cut costs. (Auto insurance says it cannot afford to pay for medical bills now covered under national health) Now bodily injury will become a profit and loss centre for the insurance as it will fall to them to provide sufficient coverage for hospital stays.

Even worse, the bad losses will be covered by taxpayers while the items which promise profit will be turned over to the private sector. You will be on hooks either as a taxpayer or as a consumer for increased costs. (This is the inevitable path)

In Alberta the Capital Health authority in Calgary in anticipation of the Conservative win is writing up a list of items that will be struck from public health care. (Interview Calgary Health) If you want to see the Doctor on anything on this yet to be published list, you will need your own private insurance or cash, possibly sign away your house.(This is the result of the same plan tried and used in Australia)

This additional charge for basic and upscale health care will need to be paid in part by business who cannot afford it.(Businesses are cutting back on levels of coverage and pension coverage unless you happen to enjoy oil industry employment)

How many Billions of dollars are spent in health care that private industry is missing out on? What a treasure if one can elect a Harper! Driving these changes is the World Trade Organization who finds any government program problematic. (Check WTO links given in other posts)

In Alberta the Mazankowski report on health was the “cornerstone” Mr. Klein requested and claimed to have no insights to. Mr. Mazankowski holds a chair on Great West Life and the “Power Corporation” (Source email Great West Life) His plan was to integrate Power Corp in to the shepherd for Alberta’s Health care. (Source Power Balancing pool to question who owns the 550 millions shown on the financial statement if not the Alberta Taxpayer? Answer own by The Power Corporation)..

Note: Run up the Power Corporation on the Web and see they own Lifeco and Great West Life to name a few. They keep changing URL to stay ahead of web posts)

In “privatizing” electricity the generation was sold by a financial vehicle called the Power Purchase Agreement. There was profitable generation as in coal generation and expensive generation as in gas generation. Closed door selection brought insiders into the buy and many of these resold or “flipped” their PPAs taking the profit from the resale, driving up utility costs. (Source Balancing Pool owners dictate when plant is to produce for the line; gas can’t compete) This operated like a bad mortgage scheme. Klein owns the courts. (No different than WEM courts went to closed and documents were sealed for 50 years when Ralph’s name came up). Accurate estimates indicate Alberta taxpayer lost 60 billions of dollars on this offer! (Source number of newspaper articles by a broad range of interests) Is this organized crime or politics?

The expensive, low profit centers through Klein’s magic ended up in the “Balancing Pool” with PPAs held by the insurance company “Power Corporation” Now we all know insurance companies won’t invest in holding bad stock for some one; we are still trying to find out how they are going to be paid perhaps a trade for Health Care? Do you really trust Harper?

Mr. Klein has so much cash on his table he sees no reason to plan or guide beyond directing an ideal. (No budgets in place for Power Line Expansions etc) The Prime Minister of Canada has no such luxury!

If you have problems with any of this contact your conservative MLA. Don’t allow them to trash the article or your question. Ask where you can find the end documents for these transactions! And, for those of you who look to the lack of .url in the document I will tell you there is a whole world outside of your net experience. Try reading and try to enjoy and take notes of interesting people.

It’s time to consider why you are voting for whom you vote!

I am a card carrying Conservative and I will not be voting Conservative this election!
The thought of a Conservative Government frightens me and should concern you!

John Clark
cyberclark@shaw.ca

http://ralphsworld.blogspot.com/
or
http://ralphsworld.blogspot.com/SubjectArchives.htm
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Post Error?

Was there a point to posting a quote without any other post content ... ?

Nevertheless, many past Conservatives no longer support the direction in which the Conservative Party of Canada wishes to take the nation. For example, the Hon. Belinda Stronach, the Minister of Human Resources and Minister Responsible for Democratic Renewal; her principles were so much more closely aligned with those of another party that she saw fit to exercise her prerogative as a Member of Parliament to cross the floor.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: Post Error?

FiveParadox said:
Was there a point to posting a quote without any other post content ... ?

Nevertheless, many past Conservatives no longer support the direction in which the Conservative Party of Canada wishes to take the nation. For example, the Hon. Belinda Stronach, the Minister of Human Resources and Minister Responsible for Democratic Renewal; her principles were so much more closely aligned with those of another party that she saw fit to exercise her prerogative as a Member of Parliament to cross the floor.

I'd agree with you on everyone but Belinda. I kind of think she's only a opritunist. Considering she pretty much a Neo-Con with some social liberal policies.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Belinda not "Neo"

She may have been "conservative" in terms of her preferred economic and fiscal styles, but I would not deem her to be a "neoconservative" by any stretch of the word.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: Belinda not "Neo"

FiveParadox said:
She may have been "conservative" in terms of her preferred economic and fiscal styles, but I would not deem her to be a "neoconservative" by any stretch of the word.

She was Mike Harris first choice and Mike Harris is the poster boy for Neo-Cons in Ontario. Even if you put asisde the fact she is on the far-right economically and she is barely a social liberal, doesn't deminish the fact that she crossed the floor without asking anyone and the few people who did know about it on the liberal side treated it more like cold war espenoge.

If she had true concerns about the new conservative party she would have done what all other Red Tory's who didn't agree with the new conservative party.... NOT JOIN... Also if she didn't agree on a later point, she could have sat as an independant. Don't get me wrong I completely agree with the reasoning behind why she left it is how she left.

Oh well Belinda will learn sooner or later that crossing the floor will not always get her a nice little promotion she was used to in the private sector.
 

Breakthrough2006

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2005
172
0
16
The Liberals have been proven to systematically steal or waste our money and we should fear the Conservatives.

Funny how everyone forgets that Martin voted against SSM only four years ago.

If making up fallacies helps you vote for corruption, go ahead.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Breakthrough2006 said:
The Liberals have been proven to systematically steal or waste our money and we should fear the Conservatives.

Funny how everyone forgets that Martin voted against SSM only four years ago.

If making up fallacies helps you vote for corruption, go ahead.

Good point, yet another reason for liberal minded people and social democrats to vote NDP or swing vote to ndp this election. :twisted: