GM and the politics thereof

[TenPenny]

So at what point will Stephen Harper come out to insist that the 8,500 or so GM Canada workers who are getting the boot, should just suck it up and find new work? And he can point out that Ontario's auto economy needs to move into the new century, and stop relying on the rest of the country for their support. And that Oshawa needs to diversify its economy.

After all, that's his take on everything that happens in Atlantic Canada, so where's his big mouth today?

 

[MMMike]

It's more like 3,600 people than 8,500. And as far as sucking it up and finding new work, is there any alternative? What else, a massive subsidy...er government grant to "save" their jobs? Worked real well with the half billion $ we already gave GM. The government has no role here other than to continue to work to provide a competitive business environment for all companies.

 

[Jay]

Oshawa has a diverse economy. Ontario's auto economy is in the new century, and we don't rely on the rest of Canada.....So I don't think that is going to happen.

He might talk about pricing yourself out of the market.

(those GM workers arn't voting conservative BTW...)

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: GM and the politics t

Spin off jobs put the number far closer to 8500 than 3600. The new jobs that people find will be lower paying and not offer benefits.

Maybe GM should give these plants to the workers they are laying off. That would give the workers the opportunity to make automobiles on contract for whatever company wants to hire them.

 

[LeftCoast]

RE: GM and the politics t

This is just a shift in the factors of production. GM has dug its own grave. The workers layed off by GM will find work with Toyota and Honda.

 

[TenPenny]

I see that McGuinty is asking Ottawa to save GM. No surprise. I can't wait to hear the conservative's take on it. After all, GM in the US blames health care costs for their troubles, Hargrove blames Japanese imports.

Here's a hint: GM builds crappy cars that people DON'T WANT!!!!!!! They have to give them away with incentives. If a company builds stuff that people don't want, why the hell do we worry if it closes? If GM had management that looked at what the market wanted, they wouldn't be dying.

 

[MMMike]

By SIMON TUCK

Wednesday, November 23, 2005 Page B1

With files from reporter Greg Keenan in Toronto

OTTAWA -- Ottawa plans to dangle hundreds of millions of dollars in front of car makers in a fresh bid to lure new plants, despite General Motors Corp.'s announcement -- just months after accepting a $435-million government package -- that it will eliminate thousands of jobs.

Globe and Mail

Proof that politics trumps reason every time.

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: GM and the politics thereof

I see that McGuinty is asking Ottawa to save GM. No surprise. I can't wait to hear the conservative's take on it. After all, GM in the US blames health care costs for their troubles, Hargrove blames Japanese imports.

Here's a hint: GM builds crappy cars that people DON'T WANT!!!!!!! They have to give them away with incentives. If a company builds stuff that people don't want, why the hell do we worry if it closes? If GM had management that looked at what the market wanted, they wouldn't be dying.

I agree that they've got crappy product. But cost structure is a key part of their troubles - with the gold plated pensions and high salaries, labour costs them close to $80/hr, compared to Toyota/Honda at under $50. How can they compete? The union has to bear their share of responsibility for these difficulties.

 

[no1important]

RE: GM and the politics t

It also looks like Liberal vote buying as well.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: GM and the politics t

It is Liberal vote buying. If we had a Conservative government in Ottawa it would be Conservative vote buying. In the US, similar issues lead to Republican and Democratic vote buying. Pointing partisan fingers when things like this come up is silly.

Toyota has cheaper labour costs mostly because their workforce is younger. In 20-30 years they will be facing similar pension costs. Hopefully they handle it better than GM has.

GM also isn't the only auto manufacturer to cite medical benefit costs in the US as a major issue. Every automaker with plants in the US has mentioned that. It hits the big three harder because they have older workers and older workers have more health problems.

 

[MMMike]

So the lesson is, fire them before they get old. That, or don't agree to unsustainable contracts. The workers have to agree to reduce their wages, or reduce their pension benefits to more reasonable, sustainable levels.

 

[Jay]

What union does Toyota workers in Ontario fall under? Anyone know?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: GM and the politics t

Toyota in Canada is not unionised. They have kept the union out by paying wages and offering benefits that are the same as unionised employees though, Jay.

The workers shouldn't need to reduce their wages or give up their pensions, MMMikey. The car companies have to design more desirable, more affordable cars that aren't so prone to swings in other parts of the economy. They need to cut executive wages and executive benefit packages. They need to become proactive instead of reactive. They need to invest the pension money better so that it is self-sustaining.

They should have learned those lesson in the 1970s and 1980s, but they didn't.

 

[Jay]

"Toyota in Canada is not unionised. They have kept the union out by paying wages and offering benefits that are the same as unionised employees though, Jay.


I knew that, I just couldn't back it up with a link....

The workers at the Cami plant in my neck of the woods don't make the same amount of money as the "Big Three" do.

 

[MMMike]

The workers shouldn't need to reduce their wages or give up their pensions, MMMikey

No, they can ride that gravy train right up until the company declares bankruptcy. Just don't cry to the taxpayer for a bailout. You said it yourself - this problem is not limited to GM alone. These people have to be more realistic in their demands.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: GM and the politics thereof

I see that McGuinty is asking Ottawa to save GM. No surprise. I can't wait to hear the conservative's take on it. After all, GM in the US blames health care costs for their troubles, Hargrove blames Japanese imports.

Here's a hint: GM builds crappy cars that people DON'T WANT!!!!!!! They have to give them away with incentives. If a company builds stuff that people don't want, why the hell do we worry if it closes? If GM had management that looked at what the market wanted, they wouldn't be dying.

Here is this conservative's take on it; McGuinty is out of his mind.

GM does build cars nobody wants.

It is a shame these good, high paying jobs will disappear, but it is inevitable.

 

[Jay]

"GM does build cars nobody wants. "

I just didn't know this....

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: GM and the politics t

Wanting to make a middle class living and be able to retire one day is unreasonable?

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: GM and the politics t

Wanting to make a middle class living and be able to retire one day is unreasonable?

What do these guys make, 70, 80,000? I thought you NDPers would consider that rich.