Canadian Politics - an embarassment

Once Proud Canadian

New Member
Jun 9, 2005
6
0
1
Hi.

I am 58 years old and cannot help but shake my head in wonder. What is happening in Ottawa? What gives with the Canadian way of conducting politics?

We in Canada are "ruled" by a Prime Minister who was selected by his party NOT by Canadian voters.

We are "represented" in Parlament by Party Members who are forced to "toe the party line". In a nut shell, I feel the whole election process is a sham. History has shown time and time again that the ruling party does what it wants to do, not what it was elected to do.

I know, in the real world nothing is perfect but by the same token, why do Canadians continually accept third rate scam artists who are only interested in their party and themselves?
 

mps

New Member
Jun 6, 2005
44
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6
Nova Scotia
I understand why so many people feel frustrated as of late, but that's no reason to declare the entire system an embarassment.

Paul Martin isn't ruling anything, and cannot simply push his agenda onto the country in a minority government. He's been met with opposition, made adjustments, and been attempting to appease all sides.

I also don't think most "toe the party line". In fact, there appears to be a lot of dissention inside the party's; people jumping ship, becoming independent, refusing to go along based on allegeance alone, etc.

So while people are obvioulsy frustrated, and with good cause, there's really no need to paint the situation as worse than it is.
 
We have been having this conversation for some time now. I do feel it is our chosen and historic political system that is failing us, not those that we vote into office but the basic structure of our government that is the problem. It forces a confrontational situation that inherently leads to a breakdown in quality of government, we have seen this many times in the last thirty years at least. I feel the overall system and structure of our federal government needs to be changed to somthing that leads to greater productivity.............
 

mps

New Member
Jun 6, 2005
44
0
6
Nova Scotia
Could you provide a basic outline of what you would prefer to see?

Nothing too detailed, just something to give a better idea of what problems you perceive, and what you feel would be best suited for the future of the country.

Thanks.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
We have the same basic system as the British, and our system is superior to the USA's when it comes to open debate.

Can you imagine an American president or even a house leader going through Question Period every day? Can you imagine Bush in a press scrum?

That being said, those three systems...Canada, the USA, and the UK...are about the three most screwed up in the developed world. None of them are terrribly democratic. None of them represent the people fairly. All are prone to scandal.

I'll bet some of you know what I'm going to say next. Proportional representation.
 

Once Proud Canadian

New Member
Jun 9, 2005
6
0
1
Hi. Yeah you made some good points, but even those who are "dissenting inside the party's; people jumping ship, becoming independent, refusing to go along based on allegeance alone." appear to have their ability to win the next election as their focus, not their constituants best interest.

It has been intimated from time to time that the Canadian Policital process needs an overhauling. I, for one am a strong proponent of this. As I see it though the problem would be to get the parties and people of Canada to agree, then follow through with it for the benefit of Canadians not for the parties.

I believe, perhaps naively, that Canada is for Canadians. I believe in democracy and freedom. I believe our politicians have a moral obligation to those who elected them. I'm sorry, but I don't see this happening.
 
mps said:
Could you provide a basic outline of what you would prefer to see?

Nothing too detailed, just something to give a better idea of what problems you perceive, and what you feel would be best suited for the future of the country.

Thanks.

You are welcome to take a look at some of the concepts here.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5069&highlight=

These are some ideas that have been formulated for many ongoing discussions and still considered a work in progress..........
 
Reverend Blair said:
We have the same basic system as the British, and our system is superior to the USA's when it comes to open debate.

Can you imagine an American president or even a house leader going through Question Period every day? Can you imagine Bush in a press scrum?

That being said, those three systems...Canada, the USA, and the UK...are about the three most screwed up in the developed world. None of them are terrribly democratic. None of them represent the people fairly. All are prone to scandal.

I'll bet some of you know what I'm going to say next. Proportional representation.

And you would be correct, it is sure funny how many of us know what basic things need to be done but the ones that can actually affect changes are totaly blind to the idea..........
 

Once Proud Canadian

New Member
Jun 9, 2005
6
0
1
Hi again.

One thing that has puzzled me is why the Senate and Commons are so large. There are 105 Senators who are rewarded their post, there are 308 Members of the Commons.

Are the interests and needs of Canadians so diverse and unique that Canada needs 308 representatives, or a province needs 108 seats to represent them? Why Alberta has 28 seats and I know our issues here do not require 28 representatives to voice them.

Yes. our political system closely follows that of Britain, not only that, our legal system does the same. Why?

Canada is not British, Canada is not United States. Canada is a melding of numerous cultures who came together to escape tyranny, heavy handed government and police state policies.

Why then can't we develop a political system and Constitution that addresses the needs of Canadians?
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
The thing about the system that pisses me off is the blatant lying I.E.The budget surplus's the Libs have been trotting out .There has been zero surpluses are debt has been going up not down ask any Canadian they'll tell you I'm wrong :x Because they've been told over and over theres a surplus by the media 8O What a joke
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
RE: Canadian Politics - a

First agree with the first statement on this forum.. Our system is totally F**k'd. We listen to the party leaders then vote for a local rep. We don't get a local rep but rather a party leader. The local mp has to do what the Leader says or he is to leave the party and either sit as an independant or under another parties banner....But we didn't really vote for him..we voted for his party. Now that we have voted a guy/girl in based on what the leader said he is no longer listening to that leader and we are hung out to dry until the next election where we will listen to the leaders again..duh!!!

Either the power of the PMO should be greatly reduced or we should vote for that Office dirrectly..Hey why don't we save a lot of money and only have the leaders run forget all the other chair warmers since thats all they get to do in our system.
 
The issue of the basic structure of our federal government is the question and why it does not work for Canada any longer. It is very easy for us to get hung up on the details and the mumbo jumbo of the day to day politics, that is not the issue.

To modify the way we govern ourselves is not that difficult a task. We have our own constitution in hand and we have the power of provincial and or national referendums. We can if we desire rebuild our government to better suit Canada's needs. It has become very clear that the current system is not working well and does not allow a responsible government to function. This is not totaly the fault of the politicians of the moment but more a function of the arena they are forced to function in........
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
RE: Canadian Politics - a

but everytime we talk of major change all the special interest groups hijack the conversation and you get left dealing in pettiness..i.e. the meech lake accord etc.

For some reason Canadians seem to like to complain without doing much and would rather just vote something out then be proactive and vote something in..governments or change!!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Canadian Politics - a

Special interest groups? If the Harperites wouldn't have flip-flopped, our next election could be one that elected a proportionally representative government.

As for Meech Lake...special interest groups like Canada's First Nations?
 
Re: RE: Canadian Politics - a

Reverend Blair said:
Special interest groups? If the Harperites wouldn't have flip-flopped, our next election could be one that elected a proportionally representative government.

As for Meech Lake...special interest groups like Canada's First Nations?

I ran into an interesting one Rev. Someone mentioned that the First Nations people have as much right to have representitives in the House of Commons as the Bloc does, and when I thought about it after it makes just about as much sense or mabey more. Interesting idea anyways............
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
RE: Canadian Politics - a

BUT THERE'S MY POINT, IF YOU TINKER WITH ONE THING WITH OUR SYSTEM THEN EVERYONE WILL WANT TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING..WE DON'T HAVE A COMMON UNITING BOND IN THIS COUNTRY WE ARE A BUNCH OF GROUPS..THATS NOT A BAD THING UNTIL YOU MESS WITH OUR BROKEN POLITCIAL SYSTEM...EXCUSE THE CAPS I JUST NOTICED AND DON'T WANTR TO TYPE THIS AGAIN :(
 

Once Proud Canadian

New Member
Jun 9, 2005
6
0
1
Hi again.

Here are some more ramblings.

Why do you suppose we are burdened by a draconian gun control law?

In the United States the people have the right to overthrow their government (by force if required) if the government does not serve the people.

We Canadians have a "snowball's chance in %^&$" of doing the same, not that I am a proponent of violence of any kind. It is just that we Canadians are so busy taking care of our daily lives and growing fat on the muck we are being fed by our government that we cannot see that we are not masters of our destiny, but rather pawns to be used when politicians think fit.

To clarify, I am a strong opponent of our current gun control even though I do not and have not ever owned a firearm of any sort. What I oppose is the "police state: mentality we have created by such legislation.

Go back to the Trudeau era and the scenario we had with the FLQ. If that were to happen today, each and every registered gun owner could expect the RCMP to pay them a visit to confiscate their firearms.

This is not democratic nor is it freedom. It wasn't even an issue tabled by the citizens of this country but was rather some politician's brilliant idea.

What makes me angry about the whole thing is the politicians treat us as stupid or ignorant and bank on our lassitude by saying it is for our benefit and will reduce crime.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Canadian Politics - a

There is plenty discussion of gun control on here. To say that the Americans can overthrow their goevrnment is silly though. They'd be going up against tanks with M-16s and AK-47s.

The lack of real gun control in the US is one of the reasons why violence is a pandemic there. To suggest that we should emulate them is a non-starter.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Canadian Politics - a

Reverend Blair said:
There is plenty discussion of gun control on here. To say that the Americans can overthrow their goevrnment is silly though. They'd be going up against tanks with M-16s and AK-47s.

That's what the British said in 1776, it's silly, colonialists with pitchforks and axes will beat the world superpower.

Reverend Blair said:
The lack of real gun control in the US is one of the reasons why violence is a pandemic there. To suggest that we should emulate them is a non-starter.

Exaggerations and innacuracies.

In 2000 there were 28,663 firearm related deaths in the US

Undetermined were 230
Unintentional were 776
Suicides were 16,586
Homicides were 10,801

"The use of life-threatening violence in this country is, in fact, largely restricted to a criminal class and embedded in a general pattern of criminal behavior." --- Elliot, Delbert S.

Gun laws do not prevent criminals from obtaining them.

Of the 10,801 homocides

8,743 were commited in large metropolitan areas with strict gun control.