The Restructuring of our Federal Government.

[Knightman]

Restructuring our Federal Government.

The purpose of this discussion is to review our federal governments of the past to determine if a change is required in our present form or style Government.

The history of federal political power shifts.

I will start with a simple listing of the political leaders and their parties from 1968 to today.

I shall break down the changes over the coarse of the last 37 years approximatly or 432 months of federal governments.

Liberal government. The liberals held power under Trudeau for 133 months
Pierre Trudeau the fifteenth Prime minister of Canada from April 20th 1968 to june 3rd 1979
Robert Lorne Stanfield Leader of the Progressive Conservitive Party from 1967-1976

Conservitive Government. The Conservitives held office under Clark for 9 months
Joe Clark the sixteenth Prime minister of Canada from June 4th 1979 to March 2nd 1980
Joe Clark as Leader of the Progressive Conservitive Party from 1976-1983 and 1998-2003

Liberal Government. The liberals held power under Trudeau for 40 months
Pierre Trudeau the fifteenth Prime minister of Canada from March 3rd 1980 to June 30 1984

Conservitive Government. The Conservitives took power under several leaders for 113 months
John Turner seventeenth Prime minister of Canada from June 30, 1984 to September 17, 1984.
Brian Mulroney eighteenth Prime minister of Canada from September 17, 1984, to June 25, 1993.
Brian Mulroney as leader of the Progressive conservitive party from 1983-1993
Kim Campbell nineteenth Prime minister of Canada from June 25 to November 4, 1993.
Kim Campbell as leader of the Progressive conservitive party in 1993

Liberal Government. The Liberals have been in office now for 137 months
Jean Chrétien was the twentieth Prime Minister of Canada, serving from November 4, 1993, to December 12, 2003.
Paul Martin is the twenty first Prime Minister of Canada from December 12, 2003 to this date april 29th , 2005.


If we use Trudeau's starting date we can break down the length of times the two major political parties held office.
april 20th 1968 to 1969 is 9 months rounded out, plus the years between 1970 and 1978 to the end of may 1979 to round out is 5 months.
The liberals held power under Trudeau for 110 months.
The Conservitives took office under Joe Clark in june 4th 1979.
June 4th to 1980 is 7 months plus to march 2nd of 1980 is 3 months.
The Conservitives held office under Clark for 10 months
Trudeau and the Liberals took power again from from March 3rd 1980 to June 30 1984
the 10 months of 1980 through to 1983 plus the 6 months of 1984 is 52 months
The Conservitives took power under several leaders between the dates of June 30, 1984 to November 4, 1993
Rounded out from july 1984 is 6 months through the years to 1992 is 84 months plus to october of 1993 rounded out is 10 months making a total of 100 months.
The Liberals took power under Jean Chrétien in November 4, 1993 and under Paul Martin to the date of this writing which is april 29th 2005.
Rounded out there is the 1 month of 1993 through to 2004 is 133 months plus the 4 months of 2005 is 137 months.

This adds up to a total of 432 months.

310 months under the Liberal's

122 months under the Conservitive's.

This is a simple breakdown of how the flow of the ruling political parties has gone so far and presented here as a referance.

 

[Knightman]

The Roll Of the Office of Prime Minister.

The first point I want to make is that the Prime Mininster in our current system DOES NOT represent Canada.

The office represents the head of a political party which won an election but that does not represent all canadians and is usually filled with someone usually from eastern Canada which does not represent all of the countries population.

The roll of the federal government should be to look after "Federal" concerns and have little to do with the internal operation of the provinces. This was basically the way it functioned before Trudeau's time. The defination of what are federal concerns is open to debate however foriegn affairs and immigration would be two items.

The position of Prime Minister should be a filled as non-partisan for his job is to be the leader of Canada not just some parts of political factions of Canada and in the roll of leader of the federal government concerned with only the big picture, the roll should represent the entire of Canada in an unbiased nature therefor I believe that the House of Commons should be a non-partisan body of elected individuals selected by the people of Canada for their expertise and qualities.

 

[Knightman]

The House of Commons.

(snip)
The House of Commons is the major law-making body. In each of the country's 301 constituencies, or ridings, the candidate who gets the largest number of votes is elected to the House of Commons, even if his or her vote is less than half the total. The number of constituencies may be changed after every general census, pursuant to the constitution and the Electoral Boundaries Readjustment Act that allot parliamentary seats roughly on the basis of population. Every province must have at least as many Members in the Commons as it had in the Senate before 1982. The constituencies vary somewhat in size, within prescribed limits.

Following the 2001 census, the number of seats for three jurisdictions was increased. The boundaries of the constituencies in these jurisdictions will be determined by June 2003. This redistribution will come into force no earlier than June 29, 2004.

Area Seats
2003 Redistribution
(no earlier than June 29, 2004)

Ontario 106
Quebec 75
British Columbia 36
Alberta 28
Manitoba 14
Saskatchewan 14
Nova Scotia 11
New Brunswick 10
Newfoundland and Labrador 7
Prince Edward Island 4
Northwest Territories 1
Nunavut 1
Yukon territory 1

Total 308
(snip)

source:
http://canadaonline.about.com/gi/dy...utions_01-e.asp

This referance indicates the current state of Canada's main federal governing body, The House of Commons.

Let us take a look at the House of Commons. If we were to leave the structure as it is now it we would have a governing body based on the representation by population system. Under our new order we are discussing here the House of Commons would still be an elected body of represenentives with a partisan bent giving us a Prime Minister that is still simply a leader of a political party and probably from easten Canada as history has shown us.

The House of commons in our new structure is supposed to be responsible for national interests and affairs only and all foreign affairs, in that light the body should be non partisan in my view as should the roll of Prime Minister to properly represent all of Canada. I do not feel it is nessessary to change the constituencies or ridings or the number of seats available as a representation by population system for this purpose changes little. It is the fact that the representatives are partisan that is the issue, and the fact that the House of Commons is currently expected to be responsible for both the internal and external affairs of the country, that is the problem this entire discussion is attempting to address.

If we look at what is currently happening with our federal government we have a minority situation and the struggle for power has basically shut down the legislative process as the Conservitives and their allies attempt to bring about a vote of nonconfidance and the Liberals and their allies attempt to hang on to power. I feel this type of activity makes a mockery of our parlimentary system and also renders our counrty without an effective government and for what reason, Partisan Politics.

Our Current federal government structure does not have in place any real system to accomodate the division between provincial and federal power at the federal level (in Ottawa). We have the House of Commons which is charged with the operation of the entire counrty both internally and externally and the second house the Senate which is not an elected body but an appointed group of people at the whim of the Prime Minister of the day for the purpose of forming committees, study groups and conducting research into the legislation being delbt with by the House of Commons. The Senate has very rarely refused to pass legislation put before it.

 

[Knightman]

The Senate.

The Senate (French: Sénat) is a component of the Parliament of Canada, which also includes the Sovereign (represented by the Governor General) and the House of Commons. The Senate is an unelected body, consisting of 105 members appointed by the Governor General on the advice of the Prime Minister. Senate seats are divided among the provinces, so that Ontario, Quebec, the Maritime provinces, and the Western provinces are equally represented. Senators serve until they reach the age of seventy-five.


The Senate was established in 1867, when the British North America Act 1867 created the Dominion of Canada. Known as the "Upper House", the Senate is far less powerful than the House of Commons (the "Lower House"). Although the approval of both Houses is necessary for legislation, the Senate very rarely rejects bills passed by the democratically elected Commons. Moreover, the Government of Canada is responsible solely to the House of Commons; the Prime Minister stays in office only as long as he or she retains the support of the Lower House. The Senate, however, does not exercise any such power.The Senate meets at Parliament Hill, in Ottawa, Ontario.

Many jurisdictions, such as Denmark, Sweden, Venezuela, New Zealand, and the Canadian provinces of Quebec, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Manitoba and New Brunswick, once possessed upper houses but abolished them, to adopt unicameral systems. Newfoundland had a Legislative Council prior to joining Canada, as did Ontario when it was Upper Canada. The Australian state of Queensland also once had a legislative council before abolishing it, but all other Australian states continue to have bicameral systems. Nebraska is the only state in the United States to have a unicameral legislature.

Currently the senate is divided as per political association as follows:
Liberals 64 seats
Consertive party 23 seats
Progressive Consertive party 5 seats
New Democratic party 1 seat
independent 5 seats
Vacant 7 seats
------------------------------------------------------------
Total 105 seats

Canadian Senate. From Wikipedia,. The Senate was established in 1867, when the British North America Act 1867 created the Dominion of Canada. ... of 2005, is $119,100; members may receive additional salaries in right of other offices they hold.

If we do some simple math say multiply 105 times $119,100 we get $12,505,500.00 to pay our senators.

source of information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Senate

This is the state of the senate at the current time.

 

[Knightman]

Restructuring the Senate.

The reconstruction process.

The Premiers senate would be to replace the current senate with an elected or appointed body of individuals from each province. under the guidance and direction of the premiers and or their governments. This legislative body would have an equal number of representives from each province. There are 105 seats to be filled. If we simply divide 105 by the 13 provinces and territories we get 8 members per province that procedure fills 104 seats leaving one seat vacant.

This legislative body would be responsible for all governance activities concerning the internal operation of the country and woud also be responsible for deciding on what departments are to be handled at the federal level. These being issues and responsibilities concerning all of Canada as a whole such as foreign policy, immigration, military, national police force, national research, foreign negotations only to name a few. The point being that the Premiers Senate would be the main legislative body for the counrty, not as we have now where the House of Commons is the main legislative body. The House of Commons roll would be changed dramatically.

This new Senate would be or should be a mix or political factions but the possibility of a single party having power due to the election or appointment process in each province could and may occur however I do not believe this can be viewed as a good or a bad thing as these people would still be representing their provinces regardless of political attachment.
The members of the ( Primiers Senate) as we are calling it for these discussions could be elected by a province wide vote as in representing eight various regions of a province that is one way. They could be elected by the members of the government of the province that is another way however the election process does not guarantee having the best people for the job to represent a province in the Primiers Senate. They could also be appointed by the provincial governments to make use of the people with the best qualifications in various areas of expertese. However it is decided, placing people to sit in the national senate should be up to the various provinces to decide on their own just as the various provinces has decided on the style of government they want.
The new senate positions would NOT be an appointment for life but would be a cyclic position with a finite term, again as decided by the various provinces.

 

[Knightman]

Power to the Provinces.

Some may argue that my suggestions here would not give a fair and equal government at the federal level as my proposal will not give canadians a representation by population system.

My view is the various provincial governments are the true representation by population system. Our thirteen provinces and territories already have an electorial system in place that was decided upon by their various populations to be fair and do represent the areas of the country properly. Be it, Ontario with it's twelve million, Quebec with it's seven million or Nunavut with its thirty two thousand population.

Source:
http://etourist.ca/flags/

The creation of what I am calling the premiers senate (I am sure there is a better term) would simply be an extension of the thirteen provincial governments representing their respective populations.

The reason I would like to see this shift in power is because of the apparent inability of our current federal government system to address the needs and desires of the provinces and their people. If we look at the events that have occured over the last thirtyseven years we are dicussing here, the current federal system has caused more division and more hatred between the provinces than it has ever won.

What we have now is the provinces are required to ask the federal government for financial assistance, argue for equalization payments, request for disaster aid. The list goes on. The tax dollars come from the people of the provinces in the first place the bulk of that tax money should stay in the provinces or be distributed as required by themselves not handed over to a federal body to be yet again given out only at the wishes of the federal government which seems to have caused more animosity.

Let us look at Quebec's case. They have argued for seperation even before Trudeau's time. The federal governments through all this time have given Quebec large sums of taxation dollars and political concessions and they still feel the need to seperate. All the efforts to apease the people of Quebec have done nothing and possibly made the situation worse. The truth of the matter is Quebec is not going anywhere even if they did seperate the land stays where it is now and the people of the province stay on it. The province is still in the realm of Canada regardless of what they do and will have to interact almost as much as they do now with the rest of the country. The point here being that under what I am proposing Quebec or westen canada or whichever area would have not feel it nessessary to seperate as they would be in control of thier own affairs not under the control of a federal body.

Instead of the provinces fighting the federal government and causing these splits throughout the counrty let us take away the main source of the problem which is our current federal government system, give the power to the provinces to run their own affairs and set up a federal governing body to allow for interaction between the provinces for the purpose of internal affairs.

The current federal government would at this point be under the control of the new premiers senate. The provinces would be holding the purse strings and giving the federal government (House of Commons) only those funds required to operate its areas of responsbility.

What I am purposing here is a clear division of power between the two governing bodies and a clear vision of their respective responsibilities and a mechanism for maintaining that division of function and responsibility.

 

[bluealberta]

Knightman:

Excellent presentation, and something that I think may be viable. I think you have hit on a couple of main points, namely:

1. The current system enslaves the provinces to the federal government, which in turn favors those provinces which elect members to the current House of Commons.

2. Money is doled out at the whim of the Federal government, and many times is doled out based on political expediency, as opposed to need. The current situation with the Martin government is a prime example.

3. Let the provinces decide best how to treat their citizens, regardless of their political party in power. Presumably, they have been elected in a democratic manner, and presumably know better how to deal with their unique situations and problems better than a federal bureaucrat in Ottawa. I think this has been proven over and over again in the past 30 - 40 years.

4. When deciding the responsibilities of the Premiers Senate as you call it, there has to be a limit on the number of areas this Senate would be responsible for, to avoid getting into the same mess we are in now.

I like this idea as a premise. I wonder what it would take to pursue it further? I wonder if the real potential of Quebec pursuing their separtist agenda, and the rising western separation sentiment would lead to a discussion about this or something similar? I have always wanted to reconfigure confederation before using the separtist card, and this certainly has potential to reconfigure.

Well done, I look forward to your further comments.

 

[bluealberta]

Knightman:

Excellent presentation, and something that I think may be viable. I think you have hit on a couple of main points, namely:

1. The current system enslaves the provinces to the federal government, which in turn favors those provinces which elect members to the current House of Commons.

2. Money is doled out at the whim of the Federal government, and many times is doled out based on political expediency, as opposed to need. The current situation with the Martin government is a prime example.

3. Let the provinces decide best how to treat their citizens, regardless of their political party in power. Presumably, they have been elected in a democratic manner, and presumably know better how to deal with their unique situations and problems better than a federal bureaucrat in Ottawa. I think this has been proven over and over again in the past 30 - 40 years.

4. When deciding the responsibilities of the Premiers Senate as you call it, there has to be a limit on the number of areas this Senate would be responsible for, to avoid getting into the same mess we are in now.

I like this idea as a premise. I wonder what it would take to pursue it further? I wonder if the real potential of Quebec pursuing their separtist agenda, and the rising western separation sentiment would lead to a discussion about this or something similar? I have always wanted to reconfigure confederation before using the separtist card, and this certainly has potential to reconfigure.

Well done, I look forward to your further comments.

 

[Knightman]

Knightman:

Excellent presentation, and something that I think may be viable. I think you have hit on a couple of main points, namely:

1. The current system enslaves the provinces to the federal government, which in turn favors those provinces which elect members to the current House of Commons.

2. Money is doled out at the whim of the Federal government, and many times is doled out based on political expediency, as opposed to need. The current situation with the Martin government is a prime example.

3. Let the provinces decide best how to treat their citizens, regardless of their political party in power. Presumably, they have been elected in a democratic manner, and presumably know better how to deal with their unique situations and problems better than a federal bureaucrat in Ottawa. I think this has been proven over and over again in the past 30 - 40 years.

4. When deciding the responsibilities of the Premiers Senate as you call it, there has to be a limit on the number of areas this Senate would be responsible for, to avoid getting into the same mess we are in now.

I like this idea as a premise. I wonder what it would take to pursue it further? I wonder if the real potential of Quebec pursuing their separtist agenda, and the rising western separation sentiment would lead to a discussion about this or something similar? I have always wanted to reconfigure confederation before using the separtist card, and this certainly has potential to reconfigure.

Well done, I look forward to your further comments.

I thankyou for your reply I attempted to lay out the idea as clearly as possible.

I agree that the scope of resposibility of the (Premiers Senate) requires defination however I feel that is beyond the focus of this broader topic just at this time and I do not feel I have the expertise to dive into it. I am sure there are some that read this thread that can make some solid recommendations and it would be appreciated.

Below is my view of the next steps that could be taken to further this idea along.................

 

[Knightman]

The Next Steps

If we really feel there is need for change and the restructuring plan I have layed out here has validity then the next step is to formulate a document, a bill written in plain, clear text that can be refered to in discussions with others.

After that document is complete and verified by people that are well versed in such matters then the process of edcuation can begin as we would now have a point of reference.

At that point it comes down to, I tell a friend, you tell a friend, they tell their friends and so on.

We have the internet, the gem of the information age at our disposal. A web site could be set up to support what could become a cross Canada movement to spread the information.

This movement can not become or in any way be thought of as yet another political party, that HAS to be avoided. It is simply an organization for the purpose of public edcuation with a single focus and will disolve when the job is done.
(After one heck of a good party and proper hangover development program that is implemented to a high degree.)

We would need to contact the various provincial governments and their premiers to feel out their support for the changes as well because obviously it is their support and solid understanding of the concept that is required. When the provinces have their elections called it would be a good thought to approch each and every candidate with the idea and get their opinion and seek their support.

When the time comes that the actual vote is done province by province as a referendum (thankyou Quebec). It was pointed out to me that the acceptance of the "Bill" does not have to take place all at one time but rather it only needs to be adopted by each province in the coarse of their various normal election process to avoid extra voting procedure costs. Once every province and territory has voted on the referendum the outcome determines if it is nationaly a "Yes" and becomes law or a "No" which means there is more work to be done.

The act of each and every province and its population accepting the "Bill" makes it the law of the land and the restructuring can begin.

One of the main reasons I chose to implement the changes to government as to reflect and address some of the true problems our country faces in this manner and this form is to make the change over as non intrusive as possible in terms of our elective process, government infrastructure, and physical set up. The election process for the House of Commons actually does not change at all. The only thing that really changes is the roll of the House of Commons and its focus, but in terms of the way the population of the country elects the representatives to that house does not change, other than those representitives would be non-partisan and we focus on thier abilities and expertise not their political affiliation.

The way we decide on the eight representitives per province to sit in the (Premiers Senate), as I have mentioned earlier should be up to the various provinces to decide they may be publicly elected , they may not, it matters little really other than we want the best people to represent our provinces in the (Premiers Senate) so long as they are people able to work as a team to support the provinces they are from and with an eye out for what is best for the country as a whole.

This is the way I see the idea progressing.

Any comments or further ideas are more than welcome and I look forward to further discussion.................

 

[Knightman]

Thoughts on The office of the Prime Minister of Canada.

Let us look at the position our Prime minister and the responsiblities that come with that position under our current political structure.

The Prime Minister is responsible for the leadership of a national political party.
The Prime Minister is responsible for the leadership of an entire nation through the use of the ruling party of the time.
The Prime Minister is expected to be present at global affairs as the representative of Canada in a ceremonial roll the Governer General does some of this as well.
The Prime Minister and the ruling party are expected to deal with all internal affairs for the nation and that entire set of issues.
The Prime Minister and the ruling party are expected to deal with all external affairs for the nation including negotiations with other nations.
The Pime Minister has at his/her disposal a large number of supposedly qualified people to which he may assign various issues to be studied and or delbt with and usually uses them for most pre-negotiations both internal and external.

This simple blanket overview gives an example of the vast scope of responsibilities that the position demands and one wonders how we can possibly expect for one person to succeed at all those rolls and do them effectively.

The answer is they can not. History again has shown us that just the sheer mass of problems that may arise at any time is more than one person can deal with and it is unreasonable to expect them to be able to field all problems concerning both internal affairs, external issues and truly national questions.

What I have proposed as the reorganization of our federal government system would aid in tailoring the issues and responsibilities the positon of the Prime Minister to make that position much more effective and give him or her much more credibility on a global level.

How can we expect our Prime Minister, the supposed leader of our country to muster the respect that position should hold when they are at the simultaneously attempting to deal with the big picture of Canada's roll on the world stage and at the same time deluged by pety internal political upheaval, scandle's, and general political bickering that seems to come out of our current political system. We can not. It simply causes an embarrassment for our nation. a belittling of the position and discredits and diminishes his or her effectiveness.

The changes I have purposed would allow the Prime Minister to narrow his or her focus.

The Prime Minister would not be concerned with the operation of a political party as the entire House of Commons would at that point be non-partisan.
The Prime Minister would no longer be greatly concerned with the day to day operation of the internal affairs of the country as that would be the work of the provinces and the (Premiers Senate).
The office of the Prime Minister would at that point be the focal point for input and output concerning the long term planning that should be done to move this nation forward.

The consitiution states that no government shall sit for more than five years without an election being called. That becomes much less of an issue in terms of the House of Commons and the Prime Ministers office when they are not towing party lines and creating or manipulating legislation to simply gain votes. They can focus much more on what is good for Canada and much less on self serving interests..................

 

[DasFX]

Great ideas, but what is the stategy to get these things implemented. I do not believe any of the current political parties will agree to such sweeping changes.

 

[Knightman]

Re: RE: The Restructuring of our Federal Government.

Great ideas, but what is the stategy to get these things implemented. I do not believe any of the current political parties will agree to such sweeping changes.

I believe the trick is, from a lot of people that I have discussed this with so far and replys that i have had is not to expect any of those involved with the federal system to be intested or get them involved at this point. This is should be a push from the Provincial level. We have elections, and to bring this entire idea to light and get it rolling means to stick this entire idea in the face of those wishing to represent us in our provincial governments and when our Federal election comes around, whenever that happens we all do the same thing to them.

It comes down to we tell you want we want, not you telling us to agree with your political slant or ideas.

The Political parties of Canada can still fight the good fight but they will have to do it province by province not just stick a blanket lable on us at the federal level and say thats the way it is because we are all getting just a wee bit sick and tired the lies, the corruption and the underdealings and the fact that a single political viewpoint no longer works to run Canada at a federal level.

As I mentioned before we basically need to formulate a bill encompasing all these ideas and a letter goes out to the provincial priemiers.

That is where we need the help of people that have the expertise to put that document together and come up with an effective written proposal to properly present the concept to those that can do somthing about it..........