Sponsorship Program - Will of the People paid for?

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? Those are the big questions, not the actual theft of cash from the sponsorship program, but we will see the focus on the thefts, Chretien is trying to shift it there and the Gomery inquiry will likely let it happen.

Former PM Jean Chretien testifies "that it was my duty as prime minister to maintain national unity," he said.

But is he guilty of using extraordinary measures to take away the will of the people of Quebec?
"Our approach after the referendum was very clear. We would ensure that the threat of a new referendum would be removed," he said.

To me, and I am a western boy who loves Canada WITH Quebec, it seems a bit heavy-handed to toss $650Million[$250M depending on what you read] at the problem. That looks like the "whatever it takes" approach that we see in the dominating bully nation to our south, and thats going too far.

Was this taxpayer money used to actually pay off Quebecors who could have made the difference in the 49.5% referandum results? Did certain influential Quebecors take "bribes"? Did they pay regular referandum voters money to vote NO to separation who otherwise would have voted YES?

Or was it just that the sponsorship program was used to promote federalism over separatism, with advertisments, and nothing more coersive? I doubt that very much.

If this program thwarted the will of the people by using money paid out secretly , then it is indeed a high crime. We know that that is exactly what happened, it just cannot be proven unless some of the Quebecors who changed their votes due to payoffs come forward... but they won't because they are traitors and greedy and participants in a criminal operation, which would all become public in a big way.

The other crime here is that taxpayer money was spent without due diligence for the concerns of Canadians. This much money cannot simply be spent without proper legistlative controls. It should have gone thru the House of Commons as a bill, as all spending must, by law, right? They "got around it" by using "programs allready in place". None of the Opposition has made this point about legistlative controls on spending govt money.

And of course, a lot of the $650M/$250M didn't go to ads, it was just taken by individuals, spilling out the sides as they tried to force so much money thru the pipeline too fast. So what? That pales in compared to the bigger crimes here. This side of the story can be found at this link, but I see it as controlled media:
:http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/08/newsponsorship050208.html

Even if the money had come straight from Chretiens's own pocket, it would still be a case of improper influence over the will of the people. Weather it was guns or money or blackmail used to influence the vote, it goes against democratic principles.

Of course, that doesn't say much about Quebecor's comittment to their separatist cause if they can be bought off. Lots of fishstink on a few levels EH?

Karlin
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? Those are the big questions, not the actual theft of cash from the sponsorship program, but we will see the focus on the thefts, Chretien is trying to shift it there and the Gomery inquiry will likely let it happen.

Former PM Jean Chretien testifies "that it was my duty as prime minister to maintain national unity," he said.

But is he guilty of using extraordinary measures to take away the will of the people of Quebec?
"Our approach after the referendum was very clear. We would ensure that the threat of a new referendum would be removed," he said.

To me, and I am a western boy who loves Canada WITH Quebec, it seems a bit heavy-handed to toss $650Million[$250M depending on what you read] at the problem. That looks like the "whatever it takes" approach that we see in the dominating bully nation to our south, and thats going too far.

Was this taxpayer money used to actually pay off Quebecors who could have made the difference in the 49.5% referandum results? Did certain influential Quebecors take "bribes"? Did they pay regular referandum voters money to vote NO to separation who otherwise would have voted YES?

Or was it just that the sponsorship program was used to promote federalism over separatism, with advertisments, and nothing more coersive? I doubt that very much.

If this program thwarted the will of the people by using money paid out secretly , then it is indeed a high crime. We know that that is exactly what happened, it just cannot be proven unless some of the Quebecors who changed their votes due to payoffs come forward... but they won't because they are traitors and greedy and participants in a criminal operation, which would all become public in a big way.

The other crime here is that taxpayer money was spent without due diligence for the concerns of Canadians. This much money cannot simply be spent without proper legistlative controls. It should have gone thru the House of Commons as a bill, as all spending must, by law, right? They "got around it" by using "programs allready in place". None of the Opposition has made this point about legistlative controls on spending govt money.

And of course, a lot of the $650M/$250M didn't go to ads, it was just taken by individuals, spilling out the sides as they tried to force so much money thru the pipeline too fast. So what? That pales in compared to the bigger crimes here. This side of the story can be found at this link, but I see it as controlled media:
:http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/08/newsponsorship050208.html

Even if the money had come straight from Chretiens's own pocket, it would still be a case of improper influence over the will of the people. Weather it was guns or money or blackmail used to influence the vote, it goes against democratic principles.

Of course, that doesn't say much about Quebecor's comittment to their separatist cause if they can be bought off. Lots of fishstink on a few levels EH?

Karlin
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? Those are the big questions, not the actual theft of cash from the sponsorship program, but we will see the focus on the thefts, Chretien is trying to shift it there and the Gomery inquiry will likely let it happen.

Former PM Jean Chretien testifies "that it was my duty as prime minister to maintain national unity," he said.

But is he guilty of using extraordinary measures to take away the will of the people of Quebec?
"Our approach after the referendum was very clear. We would ensure that the threat of a new referendum would be removed," he said.

To me, and I am a western boy who loves Canada WITH Quebec, it seems a bit heavy-handed to toss $650Million[$250M depending on what you read] at the problem. That looks like the "whatever it takes" approach that we see in the dominating bully nation to our south, and thats going too far.

Was this taxpayer money used to actually pay off Quebecors who could have made the difference in the 49.5% referandum results? Did certain influential Quebecors take "bribes"? Did they pay regular referandum voters money to vote NO to separation who otherwise would have voted YES?

Or was it just that the sponsorship program was used to promote federalism over separatism, with advertisments, and nothing more coersive? I doubt that very much.

If this program thwarted the will of the people by using money paid out secretly , then it is indeed a high crime. We know that that is exactly what happened, it just cannot be proven unless some of the Quebecors who changed their votes due to payoffs come forward... but they won't because they are traitors and greedy and participants in a criminal operation, which would all become public in a big way.

The other crime here is that taxpayer money was spent without due diligence for the concerns of Canadians. This much money cannot simply be spent without proper legistlative controls. It should have gone thru the House of Commons as a bill, as all spending must, by law, right? They "got around it" by using "programs allready in place". None of the Opposition has made this point about legistlative controls on spending govt money.

And of course, a lot of the $650M/$250M didn't go to ads, it was just taken by individuals, spilling out the sides as they tried to force so much money thru the pipeline too fast. So what? That pales in compared to the bigger crimes here. This side of the story can be found at this link, but I see it as controlled media:
:http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/08/newsponsorship050208.html

Even if the money had come straight from Chretiens's own pocket, it would still be a case of improper influence over the will of the people. Weather it was guns or money or blackmail used to influence the vote, it goes against democratic principles.

Of course, that doesn't say much about Quebecor's comittment to their separatist cause if they can be bought off. Lots of fishstink on a few levels EH?

Karlin
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
Chretien and the Liberal party is full of thiefs. Not to say that the conservatives would be any different but it always amazes me at how stupid the politicians think the public is. And for the most part the politicians are correct.

The Liberals have lied ever since 1992 and the only reason why their still in power is because the Liberals have convinced Canadians that things would be much worse under the Conservatives.

I hate negative campaigning but how can you argue with the success that the Liberals have had over the last 12+ years. I hope is that the public starts to vote on the issues rather then the Liberal perception of what the Conversatives stand for.

If you think for one minute that Chretien (and Martin) didn't know what was going on, which has been their contention all along. Then, I'm sorry but your an idiot.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
Chretien and the Liberal party is full of thiefs. Not to say that the conservatives would be any different but it always amazes me at how stupid the politicians think the public is. And for the most part the politicians are correct.

The Liberals have lied ever since 1992 and the only reason why their still in power is because the Liberals have convinced Canadians that things would be much worse under the Conservatives.

I hate negative campaigning but how can you argue with the success that the Liberals have had over the last 12+ years. I hope is that the public starts to vote on the issues rather then the Liberal perception of what the Conversatives stand for.

If you think for one minute that Chretien (and Martin) didn't know what was going on, which has been their contention all along. Then, I'm sorry but your an idiot.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
0
16
Chretien and the Liberal party is full of thiefs. Not to say that the conservatives would be any different but it always amazes me at how stupid the politicians think the public is. And for the most part the politicians are correct.

The Liberals have lied ever since 1992 and the only reason why their still in power is because the Liberals have convinced Canadians that things would be much worse under the Conservatives.

I hate negative campaigning but how can you argue with the success that the Liberals have had over the last 12+ years. I hope is that the public starts to vote on the issues rather then the Liberal perception of what the Conversatives stand for.

If you think for one minute that Chretien (and Martin) didn't know what was going on, which has been their contention all along. Then, I'm sorry but your an idiot.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? "

I thought this was the norm in Canada.

We have made a legacy of wasting money and vote buying for some time now.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? "

I thought this was the norm in Canada.

We have made a legacy of wasting money and vote buying for some time now.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? "

I thought this was the norm in Canada.

We have made a legacy of wasting money and vote buying for some time now.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Sponsorship Program - Will of the People paid for?

zenfisher said:
I think the liberals have been in power because Canadians remember what it was like under Mulroney.


And the split in the conservative vote didn't help either, but that’s going to change, as we start to unite righties, and we see less and less lefties voting for Liberals and more for NDP.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Sponsorship Program - Will of the People paid for?

zenfisher said:
I think the liberals have been in power because Canadians remember what it was like under Mulroney.


And the split in the conservative vote didn't help either, but that’s going to change, as we start to unite righties, and we see less and less lefties voting for Liberals and more for NDP.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Sponsorship Program - Will of the People paid for?

zenfisher said:
I think the liberals have been in power because Canadians remember what it was like under Mulroney.


And the split in the conservative vote didn't help either, but that’s going to change, as we start to unite righties, and we see less and less lefties voting for Liberals and more for NDP.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Yuh know;

I've been watching these clowns appear before the commission.

I've watched Chretien give campaign speeches instead of answering questions. Jeezz! If it took as long for him to discuss or answer during discussions at Cabinet ..... no wonder he couldn't get anything done.

If the NDP were ever voted into office .... every corporation would refuse to deal with them. Just like what happened in Ontario and in BC when Dave Barrett was in power.

The corporations would do the same thing to the NDP as was done with Castro for half a century.

It is time to storm Parliament Hill. A time to pull-off a Ukraine!
A "Velvet" revolution.

I heard there were half a million millionaires in Canada.

The poor outnumber them .....

Calm
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Yuh know;

I've been watching these clowns appear before the commission.

I've watched Chretien give campaign speeches instead of answering questions. Jeezz! If it took as long for him to discuss or answer during discussions at Cabinet ..... no wonder he couldn't get anything done.

If the NDP were ever voted into office .... every corporation would refuse to deal with them. Just like what happened in Ontario and in BC when Dave Barrett was in power.

The corporations would do the same thing to the NDP as was done with Castro for half a century.

It is time to storm Parliament Hill. A time to pull-off a Ukraine!
A "Velvet" revolution.

I heard there were half a million millionaires in Canada.

The poor outnumber them .....

Calm
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Yuh know;

I've been watching these clowns appear before the commission.

I've watched Chretien give campaign speeches instead of answering questions. Jeezz! If it took as long for him to discuss or answer during discussions at Cabinet ..... no wonder he couldn't get anything done.

If the NDP were ever voted into office .... every corporation would refuse to deal with them. Just like what happened in Ontario and in BC when Dave Barrett was in power.

The corporations would do the same thing to the NDP as was done with Castro for half a century.

It is time to storm Parliament Hill. A time to pull-off a Ukraine!
A "Velvet" revolution.

I heard there were half a million millionaires in Canada.

The poor outnumber them .....

Calm
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"The corporations would do the same thing to the NDP as was done with Castro for half a century.”

No one believes they would actually get power; no one trusts them, but a split left vote sounds good....


"It is time to storm Parliament Hill"

I'm with you there.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"The corporations would do the same thing to the NDP as was done with Castro for half a century.”

No one believes they would actually get power; no one trusts them, but a split left vote sounds good....


"It is time to storm Parliament Hill"

I'm with you there.